Peter King: Rams Must Trade Up, Draft Quarterback

[jrry32]

Ahhh...., the infamous 'gut instinct'. THE quickest way for a coach/GM to earn themselves a seat in the stands with the fans.

I remember board members (not you) having a 'gut instinct' last year that Austin Davis would be the Rams' starting QB this year, and insisting their 'gut' was right more often than not.

Sarcasm aside, there is a bit of 'gut instinct' in a lot of picks...no question. Drafting players is not remotely a pure science. And I'm fine with that in later rounds, and even at #18 in the first if there are multiple players a team has rated fairly closely. But trusting gut instinct to make an RG3 like deal........not in this lifetime.

All of it is gut instinct. The good ones trust their guts and hit on more than they miss. The bad ones don't.(whether that's not trusting their gut or not hitting on more than they miss)

I'm not perfect but I have confidence in my ability. I trust my gut on the Goff evaluation.

 

[Athos]

We definitely disagree. The draft is simply too big a crapshoot to risk that much....on any single player. Is it possible the one the Rams would trade up for would turn out to be the next Brady, Manning, or Luck. Sure....it's possible. It's equally possible he could turn out to be the next RG3 or Ryan Leaf. And unless/until someone obtains an actual functioning crystal ball, risking what the Skins gave up for RG3 is just too big a gamble.

This team really will go NOWHERE with a pansy ass draft day strategy. If someone at Rams Park believes in Goff like many of us do, do what it takes.

I'm flabbergasted by somes insistence we stick with QB mediocrity for enternity.

Wait all you want. You'd probably wait forever. The guy you seem to want will only be available if we have the worst record and luck out in a Luck type draft.

Sorry no. 2017 QBs look like an eh class with no depth right now. If we pass on chances and Keenum and Mannion stink up the joint, well fuck me... Right back where we started. QB hell for a loser team.

QB really is the only position to push this crap team over the hump.

 

[FrankenRam]

All of it is gut instinct. The good ones trust their guts and hit on more than they miss. The bad ones don't.(whether that's not trusting their gut or not hitting on more than they miss)

I'm not perfect but I have confidence in my ability. I trust my gut on the Goff evaluation.

Well, that's your opinion. And something else we disagree on.

 

[FrankenRam]

This team really will go NOWHERE with a pansy ass draft day strategy. If someone at Rams Park believes in Goff like many of us do, do what it takes.

I'm flabbergasted by somes insistence we stick with QB mediocrity for enternity.

Wait all you want. You'd probably wait forever. The guy you seem to want will only be available if we have the worst record and luck out in a Luck type draft.

Sorry no. 2017 QBs look like an eh class with no depth right now. If we pass on chances and Keenum and Mannion stink up the joint, well freak me... Right back where we started. QB hell for a loser team.

QB really is the only position to push this crap team over the hump.

Yes, because acting out of emotional desperation to fill a need is such a terrific approach.

Again, that 'pansy ass draft day strategy' has netted them some pretty impressive results the last couple years.

 

[Athos]

Impressive results and still a loser of a team with no clear QB direction.

And you again, misunderstand. Pansy ass draft day decision referred to passing up clear QB upgrades by either trying to trade up or getting Lynch, Cook, Wentz.

But I can see this is all falling on deaf ears when even @jrry32 cant convince you after repeated explanations.

I'll just say don't surprised with another mediocre season if the QB position isn't solved.

I'm out.

 

[FrankenRam]

Impressive results and still a loser of a team with no clear QB direction.

And you again, misunderstand. Pansy ass draft day decision referred to passing up clear QB upgrades by either trying to trade up or getting Lynch, Cook, Wentz.

But I can see this is all falling on deaf ears when even @jrry32 cant convince you after repeated explanations.

I'll just say don't surprised with another mediocre season if the QB position isn't solved.

I'm out.

Nobody is ignoring the need for an upgrade in QB play. Anyone who wouldn't like to see that is just daft. And even a trade up for it may be doable.......just not 'at any price.' Where is my 'pucker point?' Dunno exactly, but it's considerably less than what the Skins gave up for RG3 if we're talking about draft picks.

IF I were going to attempt to make some sort of blockbuster RG3 like deal for a QB, it wouldn't be for a draft 'suspect' (because that's all they all are until they've proven themselves NFL capable). It would be for a proven NFL talent.

I'm sorry if my lack of total and utter desperation for a QB doesn't sit well with some. But as much as you don't understand how I can't be convinced to join 'the in kids', I am equally baffled at your ability to look completely past the RG3 deal and not see the risk involved and think the Rams should follow that path.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I agree. But, at the same time, I think they know how close they are and recognize that Romo will be there for the next two years. In that case, it makes sense for them to go all in with that pick for the Super Bowl.

Are you saying that it makes sense because it's logical? Or that it makes sense based upon how you feel about the Cowboys decision making abilities?

Would you make the same decision if you ran the Cowboys organization?

You'd bank on the availability of your soon to be 36 year old QB coming off collarbone break(s) and back injury history? You'd pass on the rare chance at a so-called potential franchise QB in hopes of developing a later round selection who may or may not pan out? You'd actually bank on a rookie at another position making a significant enough immediate impact to make a difference elsewhere instead? Really?

Absolutely. Difference is that the Cowboys have time. The Rams do not. It's why a guy like Wentz or Hackenberg (as much as I dislike him) or Cardale Jones or Jacoby Brissett or Nate Sudfeld makes plenty of sense for Dallas but not as much for the Rams. They have time to develop their next QB behind Romo. I think the world of Carson Wentz but I also recognize that he needs development before he plays to fully reach his potential. The Rams don't have the same ability to offer that.

So I think it makes plenty of sense to a team like Dallas to take something like:
#18
2nd
2017 1st
2017 4th

From the Rams for Goff. They take Wentz at #18 to develop behind Romo. And then they gain a future 1st, a 2nd, and a future 4th. The Rams get a more pro ready passer with a very high ceiling.

But I won't be crying if we end up with Connor Cook or Paxton Lynch or Carson Wentz.

Maybe you are answering my earlier questions here.

The Cowboys have time to develop another QB because they have Romo. But, the Rams don't have time to develop someone not named Goff because they don't have a Romo?

Problem is Goff will be a rookie coming from a college spread offense and will have to be developed, too. If the Rams don't have time then what they really need to do is try to package some picks to acquire a veteran.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Goff is a gonna be a 49er
Everyone here knows it
And those that think we are giving away all our picks to move up and get him, I'm sorry, it's not gonna happen

He's a 49er - always has been

The question is "how long have you been a Niner fan?" His response is "my whole life"

Well F#•% that guy and F&$@ the Niners

 

[PhillyRam]

Impressive results and still a loser of a team with no clear QB direction.

And you again, misunderstand. Pansy ass draft day decision referred to passing up clear QB upgrades by either trying to trade up or getting Lynch, Cook, Wentz.

But I can see this is all falling on deaf ears when even @jrry32 cant convince you after repeated explanations.

I'll just say don't surprised with another mediocre season if the QB position isn't solved.

I'm out.

I don't know how much you have seen of Lynch, but he is not a plug and play kid. He is another spread QB that will not help next year. Goff likely will not help either being another spread guy.

Fact is Mannion is more likely ready to play now then those two guys right at this point.

Now if they dont like Mannion then they have to draft a kid to groom, but dont expect that kid to step in and take this team to the playoffs. There is no Luck in this draft and even if there were, you can't get him with where the Rams are drafting.

 

[Athos]

I don't know how much you have seen of Lynch, but he is not a plug and play kid. He is another spread QB that will not help next year. Goff likely will not help either being another spread guy.

Why not?

Bradford was a spread guy and won OROTY despite some of the worst skill players in the league to pass to and a mediocre o-line.

Mariota was a spread guy. Had only 11 full games and had 2800 yards and 21 total TDs despite one of the WORST running games in the league to the point he was the 2nd leading rusher on the team...and only 300 yards behind the leader.

Carr played in a crazy spread.

Brees was spread I believe.

Big Ben was a spread I believe.

Rivers.

Adapt your offense to the QB talent. Lynch isn't plug and play no. But he's got a lot of upside. No harm drafting him since everyone is clamoring to start Keenum anyway.

And Goff isn't just a spread guy. He's a spread guy with excellent ball placement that throws guys open, moves the pocket, and has some brains to his game. Just a natural feel.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I cant help this debate. My ability to evaluate QB's is equivalent to throwing darts. Lol.
Goff does look look like a guy who is a better prospect than that other guy...Cook? Big guy who doesn't look like a passer to me, I might have my prospects mixed up.

I could find us a LB though, I've been pretty spot on the last few years finding guys into the middle rds

 

[snackdaddy]

All I can say is, they gotta do their homework. If any of those quarterbacks are possible franchise savers then yes, pull the plug. Make that deal to get him. But if they're all basically the same, then just wait for the pick. Or pass on all of them.

Would any of them be an improvement over Mannion? If so, then they really blew that pick. I'd hate to think they just wasted a 3rd round pick for prosperity's sake. If Mannion grades out the same as those guys then no point in wasting a premium pick.

We got some defensive players that are either looking at free agency or getting long in the tooth (JL and C. Long). If there's a possible star at MLB I say grab him now. This team is built on defense. Fisher's history shows he doesn't win with a high octane offense. He does it with hard hitting defense. Don't let it slip back to middle of the pack. And there will probably be a few decent receivers in round two. We definitely need an upgrade there.

I don't see them cutting Foles with that contract. Which I thought was a big mistake at the time. So don't be surprised to see the same 3 guys come back next year and compete for the job along with a 4th. My only hope is Mannion moves up to number two and Foles is inactive on game days.

Either that or go all in on a trade for someone like Brees to hold the fort down until someone can fill those shoes.


.

 

[PARAM]

Yes, they will. If the Rams are offering #18, 2017 1st, 2018 1st, and a 2nd.

Who in this draft class is worth that kind of price? I'll tell you IMO NOBODY.

I'm sure there are going to be a lot of disappointed fans when they don't trade up.

 

[PARAM]

So don't be surprised to see the same 3 guys come back next year and compete for the job along with a 4th. My only hope is Mannion moves up to number two and Foles is inactive on game days.

Every year a contender with an injured starter and without a reliable backup is shopping for a guy before the deadline who can step in and keep them playoff bound. We could have "that guy" on our roster. I like your idea of MLB. Thing is (if we win Sunday) we were 8-8 with Foles and Keenum and a extremely young OL. What could we be with Foles and Keenum AND Mannion with a strong young OL? I'm convinced going All In for an unproven rookie in round 1, especially trading up to get one is not a smart move.

 

[Athos]

Would any of them be an improvement over Mannion? If so, then they really blew that pick. I'd hate to think they just wasted a 3rd round pick for prosperity's sake. If Mannion grades out the same as those guys then no point in wasting a premium pick.

I keep seeing this thrown around as if there was some can't miss prospect we passed on for Mannion. Last year as honestly an over all weak draft. Not a lot of premium 1st round talent. Mostly depth picks. I suppose we could have had Tre'Jackson or gambled on Paul Dawson. That's pretty much who we passed on for Mannion.

 

[jap]

I have leaned more towards getting a veteran QB to allow continuity with our top defense and special teams. However, if we DO go for a blue chip QB like Goff, he will have the advantage of working with a potential hall of fame RB in the Gurley Man---an advantage that Marino and Peyton did not have. Everything would not be all on is shoulders since TGII is gonna attract much attention in the box. In fact, it will be much like in 1999 when some nobody named Kurt Warner started the season with Marshall Faulk in the backfield. Of course, the Horns need to shore up the WR corp with sure handed/good route running fly guys and the TE corp with good-great run blockers.

 

[Ramatik]

Yeah, cuz the #1 overall pick is a slam dunk.

We know what happens when the "whole" team is not good. We need some good QB play. But we need the line to solidify and some receivers. I would give away absolutely no extra draft choices for anybody in this draft. It's a crapshoot. Need to burn some more sage at the altar of the QB goddess or something. Anyway, your rookie is going to take at least another year to put it all together.

The Rams need a Vet QB. (and some luck!) Keenum may grow from here. Don't throw everything away for a big maybe.

Don't make a stupid "bold" move. That stuff never works. Make smart moves.

This team is close.

 

[Memphis Ram]

 

[jrry32]

Who in this draft class is worth that kind of price? I'll tell you IMO NOBODY.

I'm sure there are going to be a lot of disappointed fans when they don't trade up.

Jared Goff.

 

[Memphis Ram]

@jrry32

A couple years back (and perhaps still today) you did a lot of work and were extremely high on Teddy Bridgewater as being the best QB in the 2014 draft class. How does Goff compare to you rating wise?

 

[kurtfaulk]

Let me make it plain: I don't give a crap. I'm going to express my opinion whether or not it's popular. Your opinion is not reality. Somebody else "made it plain" a couple years ago to me that the Rams would not draft Aaron Donald in the first round. The Rams didn't need a DT. He was too small to fit Waufle's mold. And the Rams needed a CB. That person claimed it was reality and I needed to accept it.(wasn't a person on this board in case anyone is wondering)

Guess what? Wasn't reality. It was their opinion. Just like this is your opinion. And I have mine. I know what I want the Rams to do. I know it isn't likely. I know the Browns are going to be a difficult hurdle. But it's not going to stop me taking a stance that I believe is right. You seem hellbent on proving that it's impossible. Well, it ain't.

Don't try and tell me what reality is. I don't care what you think reality is. Your reality isn't my reality. I respect your opinion. I respect your stance. But I don't agree with you.

I think Goff is going to be a great QB. I think the Rams need to do whatever it takes to get him. And I think if he gets by the Browns, the Rams can make a trade up to get him. I don't see a trade up to #1 being likely. But it's not impossible. If it takes a RGIII type trade, so be it. I'd pay that price.

gee jerry, i hope this doesn't turn into another "rams fan in pittsburgh" situation. you're not gonna get all bitter and twisted if the rams don't do what you want are you? you're too good a poster for this board to lose.

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