Peter King: Rams Must Trade Up, Draft Quarterback

[PhillyRam]

LOL

I saw the original name before the edit. "Hindenburg"

That's a good one. Because Hackenberg probably will go down in flames too.

Cook is a MUCH MUCH MUCH better prospect than Sackenberg. Cook is more pro ready than Wentz which shell The makes more sense for us.

Yeah, I hate auto correct...pain in the you know what.

I will agree the only two that would maje sense is Goff or Cook, vbn I disagree as far as how many QB needy teams there are.

I would bet Dallas is looking hard at a QB right now, they have to with Romo's age and injury concerns. In Philly they are talking QB and they could be picking as high as 9 or 10 if they lose Sunday.

Point is too many teams will be after QBs that are in much better shape to move up or simply take a QB at their spot. And again Cleveland has to take Goff if he is indeed worth trading up from 18 as you say. I mean they have been looking for a QB for years so why pass on Goff?

Hell, if the Titans are smart they swing a deal with Cleveland and move down one spot and still get a stud like Bosa or an OT to protect Mariota plus a pick or two.

 

[Akrasian]

I'll believe it when I see it. Not buying it.

Romo has had 3 broken collarbones in his career. He's 35. They had a lost season after having had to rely on Matt Cassell to replace him. I'd be surprised if the Cowboys weren't strongly considering drafting his eventual replacement. Especially if a top QB falls to them.

Not buying it. Giants are locked into Eli's contract either ways. They have no out for a couple of years.

And as I said, I'd expect the Giants to give the draftee a year or two to get up to speed. Coincidentally, that would mean that Eli would be expendable before the 2018 season, when cutting him would save about $10 million in cap space that year, plus more the next year. Oh, and he would be 37. I don't think they would give up a bunch to trade up, but I'd be surprised if they didn't take Goff or Lynch if they fell that far, and quite possibly Cook too.

I would be too. But a new coach may opt to work with him...or they may not like Goff.

Yeah, any new coach is almost certainly going to want his own QB to work with, especially since they will have their choice of QBs unless Tennessee makes a trade. And if they don't like Goff, they would take Lynch. Leaving every other team that wants a QB to scramble to trade up, unless SD wants a QB too. It's not like Manziel was considered a great talent by NFL teams before he was drafted - it took an intercession by the Browns' owner to make him a first round pick. And since then Manziel has looked mediocre and embarrassed the team repeatedly.

 

[LosAngelesRams]

View: https://youtu.be/zmcQHtXQ__U

Please, please draft this kid.

 

[BatteringRambo]

Lynch declared and resurrected Steinberg's career no word on Goff yet.

 

[PhillyRam]

...and BTW, when was the last time a team moved from pick 18 to pick #1 or #2? It just doesn't happen because any player worth moving up that high for will result in someone, who is picking much higher, to simply outbid you easily with their higher picks since teams will not move out of that blue chip area in the top 10.

So at a minimum, Cleveland, SF, Dallas, and Philly are all teams picking much higher that would seriously want to go get their QB of the future.

 

[blackbart]

Just think only 4 more months of arguing about a guy who will certainly be over hyped more and more to the point that we won't need Gurley or a defense any longer just let him smile throw the ball 60 times a game and he'll lead us to 5 years of SB appearances starting in 2017.

Or he'll get beaten down his rookie year because he can't read defenses and will be damaged goods before the end of the 2016 season.

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

 

[jrry32]

Romo has had 3 broken collarbones in his career. He's 35. They had a lost season after having had to rely on Matt Cassell to replace him. I'd be surprised if the Cowboys weren't strongly considering drafting his eventual replacement. Especially if a top QB falls to them.

I'm not buying it. Dallas will address the position but they're too close to the Super Bowl to spend a top 5 pick on the future. That's not their style.

And as I said, I'd expect the Giants to give the draftee a year or two to get up to speed. Coincidentally, that would mean that Eli would be expendable before the 2018 season, when cutting him would save about $10 million in cap space that year, plus more the next year. Oh, and he would be 37. I don't think they would give up a bunch to trade up, but I'd be surprised if they didn't take Goff or Lynch if they fell that far, and quite possibly Cook too.

Not happening. Giants have far too many holes on that roster.

Yeah, any new coach is almost certainly going to want his own QB to work with, especially since they will have their choice of QBs unless Tennessee makes a trade. And if they don't like Goff, they would take Lynch. Leaving every other team that wants a QB to scramble to trade up, unless SD wants a QB too. It's not like Manziel was considered a great talent by NFL teams before he was drafted - it took an intercession by the Browns' owner to make him a first round pick. And since then Manziel has looked mediocre and embarrassed the team repeatedly.

I don't try to make sense of what Cleveland does.

As for the bold, the thing I don't agree with you on is that there will be a ton of competition to trade up. Other than us and the 49ers, who will be desperate to get a QB?

In that case, there really isn't any competition for us to jump in front of San Francisco.

 

[jrry32]

...and BTW, when was the last time a team moved from pick 18 to pick #1 or #2? It just doesn't happen because any player worth moving up that high for will result in someone, who is picking much higher, to simply outbid you easily with their higher picks since teams will not move out of that blue chip area in the top 10.

So at a minimum, Cleveland, SF, Dallas, and Philly are all teams picking much higher that would seriously want to go get their QB of the future.

When was the last time a team traded 3 1sts and a 2nd to move up 4 spots? Just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen in the future.

There isn't anyone to outbid us this year. San Francisco is the only team that has a reason to bid against us. And with all of their issues, I don't see them selling the farm in this draft.

That's the point I have made multiple times in this thread. People keep saying we'll be outbid. Who is going to outbid 3 1sts and a 2nd? Who can?

Yeah, I hate auto correct...pain in the you know what.

I will agree the only two that would maje sense is Goff or Cook, vbn I disagree as far as how many QB needy teams there are.

I would bet Dallas is looking hard at a QB right now, they have to with Romo's age and injury concerns. In Philly they are talking QB and they could be picking as high as 9 or 10 if they lose Sunday.

Point is too many teams will be after QBs that are in much better shape to move up or simply take a QB at their spot. And again Cleveland has to take Goff if he is indeed worth trading up from 18 as you say. I mean they have been looking for a QB for years so why pass on Goff?

Hell, if the Titans are smart they swing a deal with Cleveland and move down one spot and still get a stud like Bosa or an OT to protect Mariota plus a pick or two.

Cleveland isn't going to trade up a spot. I don't buy that Dallas will spend a top 5 pick on a QB. They'll spend a pick on a QB or trade for Manziel. But it won't be a top 5 pick imo.

Philly is a team we likely need to get in front of.

Lynch declared and resurrected Steinberg's career no word on Goff yet.

Goff declared.

 

[PhillyRam]

When was the last time a team traded 3 1sts and a 2nd to move up 4 spots? Just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen in the future.

There isn't anyone to outbid us this year. San Francisco is the only team that has a reason to bid against us. And with all of their issues, I don't see them selling the farm in this draft.

That's the point I have made multiple times in this thread. People keep saying we'll be outbid. Who is going to outbid 3 1sts and a 2nd? Who can?



Cleveland isn't going to trade up a spot. I don't buy that Dallas will spend a top 5 pick on a QB. They'll spend a pick on a QB or trade for Manziel. But it won't be a top 5 pick imo.

Philly is a team we likely need to get in front of.



Goff declared.

Well not sure why Cleveland won't trade up one pick to get this great QB... sounds like you are hoping some of these things won't happen instead of being realistic about this.

Btw, what are your thoughts on Coker?I know he has a great supporting cast, but the kid has size and plays great every time I see him. Plus I think he has upside. Has a heck of a lot less experience than Cook, but certainly looks the part tonight pkaying against a tough defense. I have seen him listed as a mid rounder and I would grab him if he is there in round 4 if I have doubts about Mannion and can't get someone else to my liking earlier.

 

[PARAM]

Peyton and Favre each won a Super Bowl. The Rams in their history have one Super Bowl win. Favre led his teams to 186 wins in his career. Peyton led his teams to 186 wins in his career.

The Rams have 142 wins in their 21 years in St. Louis.

Yep, give me a Peyton or a Favre.

My point exactly!! Favre won ONE. Peyton has won ONE. The Rams have won ONE. 186 wins is awesome. Back when I first began my Ramfandom the Rams won 164 games from 1969 through 1986 without a Peyton or Favre type QB. I don't want a cap strapping All Star QB, who in most cases, is kept around too long (while collecting huge jack) because he wins regular season games and is the face of the franchise, as the rest of the roster gets decimated in order to save money to pay him. No thank you. Give me a "solid" QB and a great team around him. But that's just me. Lotsa guys would love a Peyton-type or Favre-type to win a Superbowl for them every 18 or so years.

Seriously, it would be great to have a "franchise QB" to win games year in and year out but the truth is few not named Brady don't win more than 1 Superbowl. And the reason Brady has so many isn't so much because of Brady but because the TEAM is great year in and year out. Give me a solid defense, good lines and decent skill position players with a tough QB and I'll take whatever they can give me. Drafting "that can't miss guy" is a crap shoot.

 

[FrankenRam]

Despite having Donald and Gurley, where will the Rams be when the playoffs start?

I'm sorry, but that's just a silly rationale for slamming a draft strategy.

 

[jrry32]

My point exactly!! Favre won ONE. Peyton has won ONE. The Rams have won ONE. 186 wins is awesome. Back when I first began my Ramfandom the Rams won 164 games from 1969 through 1986 without a Peyton or Favre type QB.

Seriously, it would be great to have a "franchise QB" to win games year in and year out but the truth is few not named Brady don't win more than 1 Superbowl. And the reason Brady has so many isn't so much because of Brady but because the TEAM is great year in and year out. Give me a solid defense, good lines and decent skill position players with a tough QB and I'll take whatever they can give me.

Yep. The Rams have one in 40+ years. Favre and Manning each won one in less than 20 years. In addition to that, they had their team winning 10+ games year in and year out.

Yea, I'll take a Favre or Manning. Especially with the team we have right now.

Give me a franchise QB and a great defense and I'll take all the wins and Championships they bring me.

I don't want a cap strapping All Star QB, who in most cases, is kept around too long (while collecting huge jack) because he wins regular season games and is the face of the franchise, as the rest of the roster gets decimated in order to save money to pay him. No thank you. Give me a "solid" QB and a great team around him. But that's just me. Lotsa guys would love a Peyton-type or Favre-type to win a Superbowl for them every 18 or so years.

Give me a cap strapping first ballot HOFer any day. I'll happily take winning in the regular season and only winning one Super Bowl every 18 or so years.

Better than over a decade of losing and a bunch of mediocre seasons.

Don't want to decimate the rest of the roster? Draft well and make intelligent decisions. The mistake the Colts made was throwing so much into their offense. With a QB like Manning, the intelligent move is using your resources on defense.

The Rams have the defense. They need the QB.

 

[jrry32]

Well not sure why Cleveland won't trade up one pick to get this great QB... sounds like you are hoping some of these things won't happen instead of being realistic about this.

Btw, what are your thoughts on Coker?I know he has a great supporting cast, but the kid has size and plays great every time I see him. Plus I think he has upside. Has a heck of a lot less experience than Cook, but certainly looks the part tonight pkaying against a tough defense. I have seen him listed as a mid rounder and I would grab him if he is there in round 4 if I have doubts about Mannion and can't get someone else to my liking earlier.

Cleveland got tricked a few years ago by Minnesota. There's no way they'll trade up one pick to get Goff. It's not happening. They'll assume that Tennessee is jerking their chain like Minnesota did.

I'm being plenty realistic. Your opinion isn't reality. There's room for disagreement here.

As for Coker, I'm not a fan. IMO, he's not the same caliber of player that McCarron was. And I didn't see McCarron as more than a mid round pick.

 

[jrry32]

I'm sorry, but that's just a silly rationale for slamming a draft strategy.

Yet again, your ire is misplaced. I don't agree with the BPA draft strategy because it ignores positional value. I agree with BVA. But this is the year the Rams put it aside and go after a QB in the first round. Come second round, go right back to BVA.

You keep assuming he (and I) slammed the strategy. Neither of us did. But this year? Damn BVA (and BPA). The Rams need to draft a QB.

You're choosing to ignore the message to take one sentence out of context.

 

[Akrasian]

When was the last time a team traded 3 1sts and a 2nd to move up 4 spots? Just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen in the future.

There isn't anyone to outbid us this year. San Francisco is the only team that has a reason to bid against us. And with all of their issues, I don't see them selling the farm in this draft.

That's the point I have made multiple times in this thread. People keep saying we'll be outbid. Who is going to outbid 3 1sts and a 2nd? Who can?



Cleveland isn't going to trade up a spot. I don't buy that Dallas will spend a top 5 pick on a QB. They'll spend a pick on a QB or trade for Manziel. But it won't be a top 5 pick imo.

Philly is a team we likely need to get in front of.



Goff declared.

First off, if Goff and Lynch are premium QB prospects, there will be multiple teams trying to move up to get them - even if the team has a decent QB, or a good aging QB. That is normally the case. And, believe it or not, since you rave so much about Goff's bowl game - that is going to be on tape that EVERY team in the NFL will watch, probably repeatedly, before the draft. It won't be a secret. Not every team will evaluate it equally, but if it's THAT good no team will not want him. Goff isn't a surprise pick from a small school, he will be studied heavily.

Secondly, multiple teams have reasons to bid if there is truly an elite QB prospect. In terms of SF - THEY won't have to give up the farm, since they have higher draft picks. Believe it or not, teams value higher draft picks more than lower, and SF is in position to offer them higher picks, so won't have to give up so many. It's the Rams, in the unprecedented position of wanting to trade up from #18 for an elite prospect that would have to give up the farm.

Keep in mind a key part of the RG3 trade wasn't just that it was 3 #1s - it was that the first #1 was pick 6 in the draft for pick 2 - so they were giving up two additional firsts and a second to move up 4 spots. Not 17 or 15 spots, 4 spots. Nowhere have you acknowledged that the Redskins were only moving up a few spots to trade all those, not moving from the top of the draft to the second half of the first round, where picks are valued MUCH less.

Why wouldn't Cleveland trade up a spot, if there is a QB they decide is the guy they want? They have been looking for a franchise QB for years. Manziel isn't it. It's obvious. He is a disappointment, with a drinking problem. Now after years they finally have a chance to get a franchise QB, and they are going to shy away if getting the guy they really want might take an additional draft pick? The team that was willing to trade up for Manziel? I don't think so. Tennessee can trade with them and still guarantee getting the non QB they really want. That has significant value, so Cleveland won't have to give up that much more to move up and block other teams. Even a second would blow away your suggestion on the draft pick value chart.

In terms of Dallas - they have an egotistical owner who loves to make a splash - and drafting a top QB is definitely a splash. They also have a 35 year old QB who suffered two broken collarbones this season, destroying their season. He has had 3 in his career. Yeah, a team that won 4 games with an aging, injury prone QB would never consider taking a top QB in the draft. Right.

Amazing how EVERY objection to your position you feel will be miraculously decided in the Rams favor. In the real world, most if not all of the dubious options would choose to go for the QB. The real world, as all Rams fans know, does NOT favor the Rams.

 

[PhillyRam]

Reality is SF and Cleveland trade with the Titans and rhey dont even bother to field calls from the Rams.

I mean why take future #1s from a team that would now be a potential playoff team when you xan get future 1's from SF or Cleveland or even Philly...teams that are rebuilding. That is reality. 18 is just too far to move...it just does not happen, especially for a supposed franchise QB. QB is too important a position for other teams, picking much higher, to not jump in and outbid you.

 

[PhillyRam]

In terms of Dallas - they have an egotistical owner who loves to make a splash - and drafting a top QB is definitely a splash. They also have a 35 year old QB who suffered two broken collarbones this season, destroying their season. He has had 3 in his career. Yeah, a team that won 4 games with an aging, injury prone QB would never consider taking a top QB in the draft. Right.

Amazing how EVERY objection to your position you feel will be miraculously decided in the Rams favor. In the real world, most if not all of the dubious options would choose to go for the QB. The real world, as all Rams fans know, does NOT favor the Rams.

Agree...heck Jones had to be talked out of drafting Manziel two years ago so why would they not have interest in Goff?

I always find it funny when fans come up with scenarios that can only benefit their team while ignoring that other teams want to do what will help their team. Like on talk radio when Joe from South Philly thinks the Eagles can now trade DeMarco Murray for 1st or 2nd round pick or last year when they all KNEW they would get Marriota by just trading a bunch of picks and players. They to found it that it is impossible to move 19-20 spots to draft a franchise QB in the NFL draft.

 

[jrry32]

First off, if Goff and Lynch are premium QB prospects, there will be multiple teams trying to move up to get them - even if the team has a decent QB, or a good aging QB. That is normally the case. And, believe it or not, since you rave so much about Goff's bowl game - that is going to be on tape that EVERY team in the NFL will watch, probably repeatedly, before the draft. It won't be a secret. Not every team will evaluate it equally, but if it's THAT good no team will not want him. Goff isn't a surprise pick from a small school, he will be studied heavily.

St. Louis
Philly
San Fran
Cleveland
Houston

These are the five teams with needs at QB. Cleveland isn't moving up. I don't buy into San Fran moving up. That leaves us, Houston, and Philly. Houston will be picking in the 20s barring something crazy happening in Week 17. They're even further away than we are.

So who is our competition? The Eagles? They are down a 2nd already. Do you see them giving up a lot for a QB? Possibly. But I'd be surprised if they did. But they're still picking outside the top 10 currently.

So who else is there?

Secondly, multiple teams have reasons to bid if there is truly an elite QB prospect. In terms of SF - THEY won't have to give up the farm, since they have higher draft picks. Believe it or not, teams value higher draft picks more than lower, and SF is in position to offer them higher picks, so won't have to give up so many. It's the Rams, in the unprecedented position of wanting to trade up from #18 for an elite prospect that would have to give up the farm.

Yes, they will. If the Rams are offering #18, 2017 1st, 2018 1st, and a 2nd. That means SF will have to offer their 1st, 2nd, and 2017 1st IF NOT MORE.(and I would expect Tennessee would ask for more considering we're offering an additional first round pick) That's giving up a lot for a team picking in the top 5 with holes all over.

I don't see SF making that trade.

Keep in mind a key part of the RG3 trade wasn't just that it was 3 #1s - it was that the first #1 was pick 6 in the draft for pick 2 - so they were giving up two additional firsts and a second to move up 4 spots. Not 17 or 15 spots, 4 spots. Nowhere have you acknowledged that the Redskins were only moving up a few spots to trade all those, not moving from the top of the draft to the second half of the first round, where picks are valued MUCH less.

The Rams traded down to #14 for a 2nd. So the trade actually was:
1st (#14)
2nd
2nd
1st
1st

Sorry but I don't see a huge difference in what I'm proposing. You keep assuming the Titans are unwilling to drop that far...I don't think that's a safe assumption.

Why wouldn't Cleveland trade up a spot, if there is a QB they decide is the guy they want? They have been looking for a franchise QB for years. Manziel isn't it. It's obvious. He is a disappointment, with a drinking problem. Now after years they finally have a chance to get a franchise QB, and they are going to shy away if getting the guy they really want might take an additional draft pick? The team that was willing to trade up for Manziel? I don't think so. Tennessee can trade with them and still guarantee getting the non QB they really want. That has significant value, so Cleveland won't have to give up that much more to move up and block other teams. Even a second would blow away your suggestion on the draft pick value chart.

Because the Rams aren't going to call Cleveland and say to them, "Hey Browns, we have an offer on the table with the Titans and are about to seal the deal. Do you want to trade up first?"

If you're Cleveland's GM and Tennessee calls you and says, "Hey Cleveland, I know we're not taking Goff but the Rams are and they're about to trade up. All you have to do is give us picks and we won't do the trade. We'll get the player we were drafting at #1 and you'll get the player you were going to draft at #2. Does that work?

You're probably going to assume that they're pulling your chain.

Not to mention the fact that you continue to assume that the trade value chart mirrors reality. Let's say you're Tennessee's GM and you aren't in love with any of the top 5 prospects and the Rams offer you #18, a 2nd, and two future firsts. The Browns offer you #2 and a 2nd. Which offers more to you? Unless there's a prospect I love in the top 5, I'm taking the future firsts. Especially on a team like Tennessee that needs an influx of talent around their franchise QB.

In terms of Dallas - they have an egotistical owner who loves to make a splash - and drafting a top QB is definitely a splash. They also have a 35 year old QB who suffered two broken collarbones this season, destroying their season. He has had 3 in his career. Yeah, a team that won 4 games with an aging, injury prone QB would never consider taking a top QB in the draft. Right.

I'm not buying it. Dallas has one of the best offenses in football with Romo. They need defensive help but have some talent on that side of the ball. With one big time player, they're a Super Bowl contender. I'm not buying that Jerry Jones is going to pass on a top 5 prospect to draft a backup QB with how close Dallas is.

I certainly believe that Dallas will go after a QB. Maybe they go after Manziel. Maybe they take a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. But I don't see them drafting a QB in the top 5 when they have Romo.

Drafting a backup QB is not a splash. You're not convincing me that this is the most likely move. Is it possible? Sure. But I'm betting against it.

You know what is a splash? Getting at least one future first from the Rams in a trade down. Especially when you can then draft Carson Wentz to develop behind Romo.

Amazing how EVERY objection to your position you feel will be miraculously decided in the Rams favor. In the real world, most if not all of the dubious options would choose to go for the QB. The real world, as all Rams fans know, does NOT favor the Rams.

Amazing how you assume I feel that way because I don't assume that every possibility will go the opposite direction. It can go either ways but there are better odds that San Diego and Dallas do not draft QBs in the top 5 than there are they do. Same with the Giants and the top 10.

Now, the odds are greater that Cleveland takes Goff than otherwise. But I'm hoping they pull a Cleveland and don't. It's possible their FO finds a reason not to take him. I'm hoping they do.

 

[jrry32]

Reality is SF and Cleveland trade with the Titans and rhey dont even bother to field calls from the Rams.

I mean why take future #1s from a team that would now be a potential playoff team when you xan get future 1's from SF or Cleveland or even Philly...teams that are rebuilding. That is reality. 18 is just too far to move...it just does not happen, especially for a supposed franchise QB. QB is too important a position for other teams, picking much higher, to not jump in and outbid you.

Reality is that the odds of Cleveland trading up from #2 to #1 are EXTREMELY low (near zero). And Cleveland isn't giving up a future #1 to do it.

Reality is that if we force San Francisco to deal a 2nd, future 1st, and more to move up to #1, IT HELPS US. We can at least try. But let's just say I don't think they have the balls to do it.

Philly doesn't have the trade chips we do because we have their second round pick. And Philly isn't rebuilding. With a QB, they're as talented as we are.

 

[PhillyRam]

Well, Philly has 2 3rds and a future 1 that would be higher, theoretically than ours, plus a pick this year as high as 9 if they lose Sunday.

For that matter the Titans could take that ninth pick and trade down again to say 15 or 16 and get another top 60 or 75 pick and still pick higher than 18th.