OL or WR? Looky here...

[jrry32]

You'll find great guards later a LOT easier than you'll find great receivers later. And that's not even taking having a great OL Coach into account.

I know you disagree, but that's how it is. Outside of making a tackle into a guard (hopefully temporarily), the best guards in this draft are predicted to go a lot later than Top 10.

That's how it is? OK.

Antonio Brown - 6th round
Pierre Garcon - 6th round
Alshon Jeffery - 2nd round
Josh Gordon - 2nd round
DeSean Jackson - 2nd round
Jordy Nelson - 2nd round
Brandon Marshall - 4th round
Vincent Jackson - 3rd round
Anquan Boldin - 2nd round
Marques Colston - 7th round
Mike Wallace - 3rd round
Torrey Smith - 2nd round

At worst, you can argue 3-6 of these guys are not "true #1 WRs" depending on your standards. Regardless, that's 12 names. 10 of those 12 names had 1000+ yards in 2013.

So, can anyone give me 10 CURRENT very good/great OGs that were drafted outside the first round?

 

[iced]

I see the same thing Les. It effects his completion rate in so many ways. I did see him throw a decent screen pass (1) last year so maybe he's improving the "touch" aspect of his game.

yet there are plenty of other receivers who catch passes that often regarded as "Fast balls." Doesn't Kaeperdick throw one of the fastest-hardest balls in the game? Niner's receivers didn't have a problem crackin' 1,000 with that

 

[jrry32]

Long is #1 RDE, Quinn is #1 LDE... come on jrry - I know what you're trying to do and I know you're smarter than this

You have it flipped.

So does that make Givens the #1 RWR and Pettis the #1 LWR?

 

[iced]

That's how it is? OK.

Antonio Brown - 6th round
Pierre Garcon - 6th round
Alshon Jeffery - 2nd round
Josh Gordon - 2nd round
DeSean Jackson - 2nd round
Jordy Nelson - 2nd round
Brandon Marshall - 4th round
Vincent Jackson - 3rd round
Anquan Boldin - 2nd round
Marques Colston - 7th round
Mike Wallace - 3rd round
Torrey Smith - 2nd round

At worst, you can argue 3-6 of these guys are not "true #1 WRs" depending on your standards. Regardless, that's 12 names. 10 of those 12 names had 1000+ yards in 2013.

So, can anyone give me 10 CURRENT very good/great OGs that were drafted outside the first round?

Just to nit pick to mess with ya , Josh Gordon wasn't drafted in the 2nd round..he was takin' in the supplemental draft

 

[jrry32]

Just to nit pick to mess with ya , Josh Gordon wasn't drafted in the 2nd round..he was takin' in the supplemental draft

With a 2nd round pick.

 

[blackbart]

That's how it is? OK.

Antonio Brown - 6th round
Pierre Garcon - 6th round
Alshon Jeffery - 2nd round
Josh Gordon - 2nd round
DeSean Jackson - 2nd round
Jordy Nelson - 2nd round
Brandon Marshall - 4th round
Vincent Jackson - 3rd round
Anquan Boldin - 2nd round
Marques Colston - 7th round
Mike Wallace - 3rd round
Torrey Smith - 2nd round

At worst, you can argue 3-6 of these guys are not "true #1 WRs" depending on your standards. Regardless, that's 12 names. 10 of those 12 names had 1000+ yards in 2013.

So, can anyone give me 10 CURRENT very good/great OGs that were drafted outside the first round?

Isac Bruce 2nd rounder too

 

[iced]

You have it flipped.

So does that make Givens the #1 RWR and Pettis the #1 LWR?

Depends - do Quinn and Long have a 20% difference in snap count?

 

[jrry32]

Depends - do Quinn and Long have a 20% difference in snap count?

No. But that's moving the posts.

 

[jrry32]

Isac Bruce 2nd rounder too

Only listing current guys. Trust me, I have a list of older players ready too.

 

[iced]

No. But that's moving the posts.

No because I already clarified this earlier with memphis and bart.

Givens 75% of the snaps, Pettis was the next highest at 57%, or a difference of 199 snaps.

BTW quinn - 78%, Chris 78.7%

 

[jrry32]

No because I already clarified this earlier with memphis and bart.

Givens 75% of the snaps, Pettis was the next highest at 57%, or a difference of 199 snaps

Williams - 89.7% of snaps
Saffold - 54.2% of snaps

So was Williams the #1 OG?

 

[iced]

Williams - 89.7% of snaps
Saffold - 54.2% of snaps

So was Williams the #1 OG?

-sigh- so now we're talking about unset positions where guys were being juggled - including for injury.

They never moved Givens around and he led in snap counts for most of the season.

Not to mention givens didnt miss time to injury like saffold did...

I'm surprised to see the unwillingness now to admit he was the #1.

Was he ever subbed in for anyone else? Nope. Was he benched? Nope. Did he consistently lead in snap counts? yep.

^ unless you wanna try to make a comparison to someone who meets that criteria, you're not going to get a fair comparison

 

[iced]

With a 2nd round pick.

Yea but that's different. It's not like "He fell to the 2nd " - it was who wanted to give up the most draft capital for him

 

[RamFan503]

So where are you guys getting these snap counts? Not that I'm doubting them. I'd like to look them over. I seem to recall either Snead or Fish saying that BQ had the first or second most snaps of all receivers.

 

[iced]

So where are you guys getting these snap counts? Not that I'm doubting them. I'd like to look them over. I seem to recall either Snead or Fish saying that BQ had the first or second most snaps of all receivers.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

you can go week by week or the whole season for a variety of positions

And Quick was 4th. Pettis was 2nd and tavon was 3rd

 

[RamFan503]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

you can go week by week or the whole season for a variety of positions

Cool. Thanks.

 

[Alan]

iced looking at only part of the picture:
yet there are plenty of other receivers who catch passes that often regarded as "Fast balls." Doesn't Kaeperdick throw one of the fastest-hardest balls in the game? Niner's receivers didn't have a problem crackin' 1,000 with that

But what are you saying iced? There is no doubt in my mind that it's easier to catch a change up than it is to catch a fast ball. Because many WRs have a good success rate on fast balls doesn't change the dynamics. If you don't have one of those WRs you need to adapt your game to the WRs you do have. Improvise, adapt, complete the pass. If you can adapt...and there's the rub.

Plus you're only looking at one aspect of the problem of a lack of touch to his game.

 

[iced]

But what are you saying iced? There is no doubt in my mind that it's easier to catch a change up than it is to catch a fast ball. Because many WRs have a good success rate on fast balls doesn't change the dynamics. If you don't have one of those WRs you need to adapt your game to the WRs you do have. Improvise, adapt, complete the pass. If you can...and there's the rub.

Plus you're only looking at one aspect of the problem of a lack of touch to his game.

Well no all I have to do is think about Brett Farve how hard he threw ball and his receivers.. I mean think of Torry Holt and his finger.

My point is - the good ones don't have issues catching the ball.

And no I'm not looking at one aspect of the problem - I'm looking at many, including drops, even on balls that are floated...like the one givens should have taken for his first touchdown, but yet he dropped that one...shocker

 

[RamFan503]

But what are you saying iced? There is no doubt in my mind that it's easier to catch a change up than it is to catch a fast ball. Because many WRs have a good success rate on fast balls doesn't change the dynamics. If you don't have one of those WRs you need to adapt your game to the WRs you do have. Improvise, adapt, complete the pass. If you can...and there's the rub.

Plus you're only looking at one aspect of the problem of a lack of touch to his game.

Actually - I don't agree at all. I'm not responding to the rest of this cuz quite frankly, I'm too lazy to go back and look at the context. But I think you'd get a different answer from many receivers. Touch passes with the speed of the game, are very difficult to come down with. There is a lot more timing, judgment, and reaction involved rather than just catching a ball drilled into your hands.

 

[Alan]

iced failing to notice that I hijacked the thread:
Well no all I have to do is think about Brett Farve how hard he threw ball and his receivers.. I mean think of Torry Holt and his finger.

My point is - the good ones don't have issues catching the ball.

And no I'm not looking at one aspect of the problem - I'm looking at many, including drops, even on balls that are floated...like the one givens should have taken for his first touchdown, but yet he dropped that one...shocker

If you have a RB who excels when running between the tackles do you try and run him on the outside all the time, or do you adapt your offense to suit his talents? If we have WRs who have trouble catching fast balls do you stubbornly continue to throw them or do you adapt and improvise? Of course you can only adapt if your QB has those skills. As in how we changed our O to compliment Clemens' skill set. I'm not suggesting that all throws need to be change ups, I'm saying that sometimes you need to throw one and that wouold cut down, not eliminate, the drops and improve other aspects of your passing attack. Screen passes, corner of the endzone fade passes, et cetera.

You missed the fact that Les was talking about how our QB play is affecting the WR play. I continued in that vein. I looked at the QB aspect of the problem of dropped passes, and widened it to include how the lack of a change up has other detrimental effects on our passing game.

Sorry about that.