OL or WR? Looky here...

[Memphis Ram]

What??

Charles - 70 catches
Bowe - 57 catches
Mccluster - 53 catches
Avery - 40 catches
Mcgrath - 26
Fasano - 23
Sherman - 18
Hemingway - 13
Davis - 11

total - 311


Cook - 51
tavon - 40
AP - 38
givens - 34
kendricks - 32
Stacy - 26
Quick - 18
Stedman - 17
Drich - 14

total - 270


Uhh looks to me the chiefs spread the ball around much better...3 of their top 4 receptions are by receivers.. yea, they spread the ball out way more than the Rams.

Sorry man, but you're way off. KC also isn't juggling their WR corps like the Rams were, which will account for your "spread" so far out.

Either way - the Chiefs had 41 more catches, and even their #3 Receiver out produced our "#1"

C'mon. If you are going to include Davis and his 11 catches for the Chiefs, then why not include Pead (11) and Harkey (13) who are in the same range???? Because it doesn't suit your argument, perhaps?? That's 11 targets (Rams) vs 9 targets (Chiefs) in the same receptions range. And 11 > 9.

And yes, they had 41 more catches (on 40 more passing attempts). But, wouldn't the Rams targets have more yards if they had those receptions? Even if they only completed 1/2 of the extra attempts that still get them more yards. That is, not unless they all went for no yards at all.

 

[iced]

C'mon. If you are going to included Davis and his 11 catches for the Chiefs, then why not include Pead (11) and Harkey (13) who are in the same range???? Because it doesn't suit your argument, perhaps?? 11 targets (Rams) vs. 9 targets (Chiefs).

Actually I just grabbed what turned out to the top 9 receivers (was like the 6th or 7th page i think) and then made sure I grabbed the next top 9 for Rams.

And yes, they had 41 more catches (on 40 more passing attempts). But, wouldn't the Rams targets have more yards if they had those receptions? Even if they only completed 1/2 of the extra attempts that still get them more yards. That is, not unless they all went for no yards at all.

Dunno - fair to speculate whether or not they'd even catch it since they were one of the best teams at dropping the ball.

Both Golden Taint (64 catches, 898) and Doug Baldwin (50, 778) out produced on less attempts...and thats with them juggling the percy harvins and sidney rices...

You're not gonna sell me on this man when they're being so vastly out produced... Thats like telling me the Jags are fine at Quarterback and they don't need to draft one (speaking of which, justin blackmon had 400 yards in 4 games.... he had a lot less attempts yet clearly out produced what we have)

 

[Memphis Ram]

Actually I just grabbed what turned out to the top 9 receivers (was like the 6th or 7th page i think) and then made sure I grabbed the next top 9 for Rams.


Dunno - fair to speculate whether or not they'd even catch it since they were one of the best teams at dropping the ball.

Both Golden Taint (64 catches, 898) and Doug Baldwin (50, 778) out produced on less attempts...and thats with them juggling the percy harvins and sidney rices...

You're not gonna sell me on this man when they're being so vastly out produced... Thats like telling me the Jags are fine at Quarterback and they don't need to draft one (speaking of which, justin blackmon had 400 yards in 4 games.... he had a lot less attempts yet clearly out produced what we have)

And that was a flaw in your theory of KC spreading the ball out more.

And it's already been acknowledged that Taint and Baldwin out produced the Rams with less attempts. At the same time, they got more opportunities that the Rams WRs as their team yet again didn't spread the ball around like the Rams. If Seattle used another target who took reps or opportunities away from those two, then their numbers would drop as well. Wouldn't they? You've got to see the math there.

Your main argument should be quality. Not yards, because they can easily be influenced by the QBs/teams focus. Don't believe me? Amendola got 666 yards in 8 starts in 2012. Does that happen if Bradford isn't keying on him?

 

[iced]

And that was a flaw in your theory of KC spreading the ball out more.

And it's already been acknowledged that Taint and Baldwin out produced the Rams with less attempts. At the same time, they got more opportunities that the Rams WRs as their team yet again didn't spread the ball around like the Rams. If Seattle used another target who took reps or opportunities away from those two, then their numbers would drop as well. Wouldn't they? You've got to see the math there.

Your main argument should be quality. Not yards, because they can easily be influenced by the QBs/teams focus. Don't believe me? Amendola got 666 yards in 8 starts in 2012. Does that happen if Bradford isn't keying on him?

Please - and i like how you've conviently ignored the lack of touchdowns that I've pointed out time after time... I mean the yards being this bad are one thing - but your "#1" WR not having a TD in 22 games? Please.

And then there's the fact that 3 of them combine to score 6 TD's.. 6... Can't even break 600 yards, nor get in the endzone.

 

[VARAMS]

All you have to do is look at last years draft - DJ Fluker (#4 OT picked) played better than the first 3 OT picks (Fischer, Joekel, Johnson). Point being you dont need to pick an OT at #2 - you can wait until pick #13 or even later.

 

[blackbart]

2013 was Dwayne Bowe's 7th NFL season

Percy Harvin played in part of 1 game in the 2013 regular season

 

[jrry32]

All you have to do is look at last years draft - DJ Fluker (#4 OT picked) played better than the first 3 OT picks (Fischer, Joekel, Johnson). Point being you dont need to pick an OT at #2 - you can wait until pick #13 or even later.

It was their rookie year. After their 3rd or 4th year, if Fluker is still the best, the point would be relevant.

 

[RamzFanz]

Lack of separation plus dropping passes by our WR's has been killing our offensive drives, putting more pressure on the O-line leading to more sacks. Originally I was on board for getting Clowney, due to wanting to terrorize opponent's QB's even more than we have been but I'm getting to see the point in drafting Sammy Watkins.

It will never happen. It makes no sense at this point.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Please - and i like how you've conviently ignored the lack of touchdowns that I've pointed out time after time... I mean the yards being this bad are one thing - but your "#1" WR not having a TD in 22 games? Please.

And then there's the fact that 3 of them combine to score 6 TD's.. 6... Can't even break 600 yards, nor get in the endzone.

Conveniently ignored the lack of touchdowns? My main point has been to simply to dispute your yardage notion. But, if you want to talk TDs, the whole team needs to score more. And if the ball is being spread out to several targets, I couldn't give a flip about who scores as long as the team scores.

Plus, I don't believe that the team even has a #1 WR for your cherry picked stats. Givens may not have had a TD, but Austin and Pettis had 4 apiece. The TEs (playing in TE heavy scheme remember) had 11 unlike prior seasons (6 in 2012 / 0 in 2011). Just because the guy you labeled and want to score and didn't means nothing to me as long as the team scores. And all that said, my guess is that Givens has more yards and scores as the season goes on if Bradford doesn't go down as Clemens struggled going down the field where Givens excels.

 

[Memphis Ram]

All you have to do is look at last years draft - DJ Fluker (#4 OT picked) played better than the first 3 OT picks (Fischer, Joekel, Johnson). Point being you dont need to pick an OT at #2 - you can wait until pick #13 or even later.

Can you any find reputable personnel evaluator/draftniks that would rank any of those guys ahead of the guys in this draft class? Each draft class is different. BTW, Fluker didn't even last to the #13 pick in his draft class.

 

[LesBaker]

I post I came across, may be an eye opener to many:

OL is key, but the Passing game is King. Again I refer peeps to this article.

[thepowerrank.com]


And again, I refer peeps to this OL rank.

[www.profootballfocus.com]


Cards had the worst OL in the league, and they win 10 games.
Seahawks were ranked 26th, and they win the SB.
Colts ranked 24th, playoff team.
Chiefs went from 12th to 20th, yet won 9 more games.

IMO, a good passing game is more important than a dominant OL in getting to the playoffs. What's really missing from our team is a good passing game. Watkins makes the best impact in the most important aspect of the game.


In short... SAMMY WATKINS for 1A!

Is the common denominator the QB and not the OL, or as you infer the WR's?

Is that within the realm of possibilities?

 

[nighttrain]

call me crazy but a #1 WR (watkins/evans) does more for this team now and the next 3-5 years than Tackle/converted guard... especially for Sammy

coming around to your thot Ice, SB needs that go to guy, which so far we don't have
train

 

[nighttrain]

And? That's a pretty low bar to set. Plus, those WRs didn't have Kellen Clemens throwing them the ball for over half the year.

Using those teams to argue for Sammy Watkins is a terrible argument. Want to argue the ineptitude of the Rams WRs...have at it. Just don't tell me that OL isn't important while the #1 WR is by using a bunch of teams without #1 WRs as examples.

Regardless, I happen to think a lot of Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey. And I don't believe they should be given up on because they didn't light the world on fire as rookies. But I am also not against drafting Sammy Watkins. I just don't think it's necessary (or correct) to marginalize our talent on the WR corp or attack the importance of the OL to make an argument for Watkins.

Ya got me going back and forth, so confused right now I just want this draft to happen
train

 

[nighttrain]

about last season and Rams finishing 28th in pass attempts, SB out and Clemens in passing game gone and run game in
train

 

[Faceplant]

about last season and Rams finishing 28th in pass attempts, SB out and Clemens in passing game gone and run game in
train

And there's the rub. Why are we arguing stats of our WRs after a season led, for the most part, by our BACKUP QB???????????????????????????????

I, for one, think that Bailey, Austin, Givens and Cook can F up a defense just fine if the line holds and the run game keeps the safeties honest. It ALL starts up front. Period. Football 101.

 

[iced]

And there's the rub. Why are we arguing stats of our WRs after a season led, for the most part, by our BACKUP QB???????????????????????????????

I, for one, think that Bailey, Austin, Givens and Cook can F up a defense just fine if the line holds and the run game keeps the safeties honest. It ALL starts up front. Period. Football 101.

Because apparently our starting #1 Receiver hasn't seen a touchdown in 22 Games, but yet that's some how supposed to be all on Clemens and the OL? So was that Clemens fault last year that Given's last touchdown was against Arizona (week 11)? Or are we just going to chalk it up to "rookie" year and move on.

don't get me wrong - he was a rookie and I'm not blasting him for that. But I'm not for having a receiver who woefully regressed as your #1 and you didn't need Bradford to see that. Especially when there's a big upgrade in the draft staring you in the face

Ya got me going back and forth, so confused right now I just want this draft to happen
train

here's some more numbers. Rams Drop rate = 7th, 30 drops. Seattle = 32nd, 13 drops.... Less attempts, multiple receivers with more production, and definitely way more points scored.

Conveniently ignored the lack of touchdowns? My main point has been to simply to dispute your yardage notion. But, if you want to talk TDs, the whole team needs to score more. And if the ball is being spread out to several targets, I couldn't give a flip about who scores as long as the team scores.

lol wow. so that's your response to givens' lack of production is blame the whole team lol.

the whole team doesn't score much because they're simply not talented enough - plenty of other receivers this season managed to score regardless of offense or qb.

See Josh Gordon, Jeffrey, Justin Blackmon, Kendall Wright, etc. the list goes on

Plus, I don't believe that the team even has a #1 WR for your cherry picked stats. Givens may not have had a TD, but Austin and Pettis had 4 apiece. The TEs (playing in TE heavy scheme remember) had 11 unlike prior seasons (6 in 2012 / 0 in 2011). Just because the guy you labeled and want to score and didn't means nothing to me as long as the team scores.

How is this cherry picking? Is Tavon austin our #1 receiver? Nope. Is Austin Pettis, whom I have pointed out his td's? Nope
Seems to me you just don't want to admit Chris Givens as our #1 receiver is severely inadequate and the position needs an upgrade.

And all that said, my guess is that Givens has more yards and scores as the season goes on if Bradford doesn't go down as Clemens struggled going down the field where Givens excels.

Lmao right - because based on what history tells you this? Givens last 12 games with Bradford (this season and last):
-zero touchdowns
-10 out of 12 games he had less than 60 yards, half of those games (6 of 12) he had less than 30 yards

Seems like to me, to you Givens has very little responsibility for his league worst performance as #1 Starting Receiver and it's everyone elses fault... 104 Other receivers played with back ups and caught at least one touchdown - what's their excuses?

What's Justin Blackmon's excuse for getting 415 yards in 4 games? Hell he caught a touchdown in that 4 game spat.

The amount of excuses for this ineptitude is amazing.. The less attempts excuse is botched - especially since the Rams sit at #7 overall with 30 drops. (And the least attempted team in the league, also has the least drops, easily out produced the Rams entire corps..they got yards and touchdowns).


Spare me the "spread the ball around" excuse. Snap counts for 2013:

Givens - 779 (out of 1005), 77.5%
Cook - 718, 71.4%
Pettis - 580, 57.7%
Kendricks - 577, 57.4%
Tavon - 423, 42.1%
Quick - 354, 35.2%

^ That is woefully sad when you consider Givens production and the rest of the other team.

Quick atleast got a touchdown and he played less than half as much

 

[Memphis Ram]

lol wow. so that's your response to givens' lack of production is blame the whole team lol.

the whole team doesn't score much because they're simply not talented enough - plenty of other receivers this season managed to score regardless of offense or qb.

See Josh Gordon, Jeffrey, Justin Blackmon, Kendall Wright, etc. the list goes on

How is this cherry picking? Is Tavon austin our #1 receiver? Nope. Is Austin Pettis, whom I have pointed out his td's? Nope
Seems to me you just don't want to admit Chris Givens as our #1 receiver is severely inadequate and the position needs an upgrade.

Lmao right - because based on what history tells you this? Givens last 12 games with Bradford (this season and last):
-zero touchdowns
-10 out of 12 games he had less than 60 yards, half of those games (6 of 12) he had less than 30 yards

Seems like to me, to you Givens has very little responsibility for his league worst performance as #1 Starting Receiver and it's everyone elses fault... 104 Other receivers played with back ups and caught at least one touchdown - what's their excuses?

What's Justin Blackmon's excuse for getting 415 yards in 4 games? Hell he caught a touchdown in that 4 game spat.

The amount of excuses for this ineptitude is amazing.. The less attempts excuse is botched - especially since the Rams sit at #7 overall with 30 drops. (And the least attempted team in the league, also has the least drops, easily out produced the Rams entire corps..they got yards and touchdowns).

Spare me the "spread the ball around" excuse. Snap counts for 2013:

Givens - 779 (out of 1005), 77.5%
Cook - 718, 71.4%
Pettis - 580, 57.7%
Kendricks - 577, 57.4%
Tavon - 423, 42.1%
Quick - 354, 35.2%

^ That is woefully sad when you consider Givens production and the rest of the other team.

Quick atleast got a touchdown and he played less than half as much

Yes, that is my response given how the team has set this thing up. For the love of Mike, they don't have a #1 WR. They've even said that they don't have one. They've gone with a group concept which includes the TEs. Just because one guy YOU CALL, the team's #1 WR doesn't have the numbers YOU LIKE, doesn't mean that the team is wrong. Shoot for many of Fisher's Titans teams, TE Frank Wycheck led the team in receptions. In fact Fisher had 3 teams with 13-3 records where either Wycheck or TE Bo Scaife lead the team is receptions. So why can't Jared Cook be the leading target now?? Oh because you say he isn't a franchise TE.

See Josh Gordon, Jeffrey, Justin Blackmon, Kendall Wright? All are very good players. No doubt about it. But, look at the offenses being run and how often they were targeted for goodness sake. (And one could argue that each on of them STILL had a better QB than Clemens, IMO). But, anyway, the Bears ran a 4 man show with Jeffery, Marshall, Bennett, and Forte getting 88% of the receptions (limited spreading of targets). And the vast majority of Blackmon's stats came in that 14 catch 190 yard effort in a blowout loss to the Broncos, where...now get this....Cecil Shorts was out (next WR caught only 4 passes/ limited spread). The other 3 games where Shorts played (more spread), he averaged 5 receptions and totaled 225 yards. That's good, but most remember that 67 of those yards came on the TD vs. the Rams on a blown coverage. If Givens & Blackmon could magically have changed places on that play would he not have scored, too???? And my goodness, Cleveland threw 173 more passes than the Rams and I watched Titans QBs lock in on Wright in the slot the same way Bradford used to lock in on Amendola.

Am I saying that Givens is a good as those guys? Hardly. But, being on the field and being targeted are two different things altogether.

 

[iced]

Yes, that is my response given how the team has set this thing up. For the love of Mike, they don't have a #1 WR. They've even said that they don't have one. They've gone with a group concept which includes the TEs. Just because one guy YOU CALL, the team's #1 WR doesn't have the numbers YOU LIKE, doesn't mean that the team is wrong. Shoot for many of Fisher's Titans teams, TE Frank Wycheck led the team in receptions. In fact Fisher had 3 teams with 13-3 records where either Wycheck or TE Bo Scaife lead the team is receptions. So why can't Jared Cook be the leading target now?? Oh because you say he isn't a franchise TE.

Please point out another starting Receiver in the league that has similar pathetic production that givens had last season? The only other starting Receiver who didn't catch a touchdown was Hakeem Nicks - and they just cut him.

See Josh Gordon, Jeffrey, Justin Blackmon, Kendall Wright? All are very good players. No doubt about it. But, look at the offenses being run and how often they were targeted for goodness sake. (And one could argue that each on of them STILL had a better QB than Clemens, IMO).

Yep, and I'm sure their "targets" had nothing to do with "getting open" something Givens has struggled with all season. For goodness sake, this is not a hard concept to grasp. The Rams also wouldn't need to spread the ball out and live by committee if they had actually had a dominant presence to rely on. It's not like all nfl teams with a #1 WR don't spread the ball either.

But, anyway, the Bears ran a 4 man show with Jeffery, Marshall, Bennett, and Forte getting 88% of the receptions (limited spreading of targets). And the vast majority of Blackmon's stats came in that 14 catch 190 yard effort in a blowout loss to the Broncos, where...now get this....Cecil Shorts was out (next WR caught only 4 passes/ limited spread). The other 3 games where Shorts played (more spread), he averaged 5 receptions and totaled 225 yards. That's good, but most remember that 67 of those yards came on the TD vs. the Rams on a blown coverage. If Givens & Blackmon could magically have changed places on that play would he not have scored, too???? And my goodness, Cleveland threw 173 more passes than the Rams and I watched Titans QBs lock in on Wright in the slot the same way Bradford used to lock in on Amendola.

Am I saying that Givens is a good as those guys? Hardly. But, being on the field and being targeted are two different things altogether.

Givens should not be the a #1, and I can't help but laugh at how you keep defending him as a starting receiver. HE SHOULD NOT BE - and to act like the Rams don't need to upgrade the wide receiver position is preposterous.

Pardon me for having high standards - but I believe any receiver that accounts for 75%+ of the snap count SHOULD AT LEAST REACH THE END ZONE, especially when he has 20% more snaps than the next receiver. And the fact that it goes back to last season blows the whole "blame it on Clemens" out of the water.

That tells me the position needs to be upgraded, SEVERELY. And There is talent sitting there, staring the Rams right in the face

 

[Memphis Ram]

Please point out another starting Receiver in the league that has similar pathetic production that givens had last season? The only other starting Receiver who didn't catch a touchdown was Hakeem Nicks - and they just cut him.

Yep, and I'm sure their "targets" had nothing to do with "getting open" something Givens has struggled with all season. For goodness sake, this is not a hard concept to grasp. The Rams also wouldn't need to spread the ball out and live by committee if they had actually had a dominant presence to rely on. It's not like all nfl teams with a #1 WR don't spread the ball either.

Givens should not be the a #1, and I can't help but laugh at how you keep defending him at a starting receiver. HE SHOULD NOT BE - and to act like the Rams don't need to upgrade the wide receiver position is preposterous.

Pardon me for having high standards - but I believe any receiver that accounts for 75%+ of the snap count SHOULD AT LEAST REACH THE END ZONE. And the fact that it goes back to last season blows the whole "blame it on Clemens" out of the water.

Sure getting open plays a role in targets. But, so does an offensive game plan, scheme, called plays, and having a QB willing to pull the trigger. And again, Givens is not a #1 WR. The Rams don't have one. They have a group of WRs. Would it have been nice to see him score more. Sure. But, if I'm in the redzone, I'm looking for the bigger targets, too. And that's just who got the ball, for the most part. The TEs, Quick, and Pettis. It was the same way last year with Gibson, Pettis, Kendricks, and Quick. Givens has played more of a Devery Henderson (in New Orleans) type role.

And sure, an upgrade at any position would be a plus. But, what's preposterous is for anyone to claim to already know what the Rams have at WR when these guys are so young and developing.

 

[iced]

Sure getting open plays a role in targets. But, so does an offensive game plan, scheme, called plays, and having a QB willing to pull the trigger. And again, Givens is not a #1 WR. The Rams don't have one. They have a group of WRs. Would it have been nice to see him score more. Sure. But, if I'm in the redzone, I'm looking for the bigger targets, too. And that's just who got the ball, for the most part. The TEs, Quick, and Pettis. It was the same way last year with Gibson, Pettis, Kendricks, and Quick.

Getting open, catching the ball, etc. And again - this is not just about last season but also going back to the season before. It would be nice to see Givens score period.

And you don't have to call him a #1 but the fact remains he is the teams top receiver - he gets the most snaps, and its not even close (dam near 200 more than next highest).

You don't have to be big to get open in the endzone - Amendola proved that to us too. you liked to point out his touchdowns and receptions so how does that not come into play here?

And it ain't who got the ball - come on man, there numerous opportunities that givens literally dropped, including one that he could have taken and scored on I think in the niner game.

This team needs a severe upgrade at Wide receiver, and i pray they draft Evans, Watkins, or bring in SOMEONE that is Competent enough to be a starting receiver.