OFFICIAL Rams Free Agency Discussion Thread

[hotanez]

1. Alshon
2. Tretter
3. Leary/Warford
4. Resign Tru or a CB that fits the system

If we come away with that, I'll feel much better about where were going this season.

That would really free up the draft for a LT, Receiver, CB, and/or some linebackers.

I don't think signing 4 players of that caliber is feasible. I would personally love to get Alshon and Tretter but I doubt either of those guys make it to free agency

 

[OldSchool]

I don't think signing 4 players of that caliber is feasible. I would personally love to get Alshon and Tretter but I doubt either of those guys make it to free agency

I agree, with how much money other teams have we're not going to get a top guy at 4 different positions in free agency. Unless that is people give Wade/McVay discounts cause they want to play for them. Possible with each I'm sure but it's going to take a miracle to happen.

 

[Boston Ram]

Donta Hightower could be a good fit for Phillips defense. We will need some linebacker help and moving Tree back out side in a 4/3 might not be a bad thing. Also would add versatility to play 3/4 or 4/3

 

[jrry32]

Donta Hightower could be a good fit for Phillips defense. We will need some linebacker help and moving Tree back out side in a 4/3 might not be a bad thing. Also would add versatility to play 3/4 or 4/3

Hightower's cost won't be worth the role he'd play here.

 

[jrry32]

Right. Britt would be priority but if he leaves, Garcon is a nice option to replace him.

Personally, I don't think Britt should be a priority.

 

[Dxmissile]

The reason they make sense is that Goff will be learning a new system and needs the receivers to not screw things up. Both those guys are talented vets who will be where they belong and help coach up the remaining corps.

Not by over paying them. I get what you are saying and it's a very valid point but at the same time overpaying for them does us more harm then good if we overpay for anyone hopefully it's on the offensive line.

 

[jrry32]

Not by over paying them. I get what you are saying and it's a very valid point but at the same time overpaying for them does us more harm then good if we overpay for anyone hopefully it's on the offensive line.

What is "overpaying?" Teams are paying free agents the market value.

 

[Boston Ram]

Hightower's cost won't be worth the role he'd play here.

Phillips likes LBs so the role might be more significant than you think. That being said most FAs are not worth the cost. Hightower has become a complete LB and remains on the field even in passing siuations. I brought him up because I think he would fit with Phillips.

 

[Dxmissile]

What is "overpaying?" Teams are paying free agents the market value.

Give Garçon more then 4 million giving Jackson more then 5 million to me is overpaying. But I was using the words that the op used in my reply. I don't want either guy tbh but I can see the appeal of getting them

 

[jrry32]

Give Garçon more then 4 million giving Jackson more then 5 million to me is overpaying. But I was using the words that the op used in my reply. I don't want either guy tbh but I can see the appeal of getting them

The market value on a player like Garcon or Jackson is $7 million to $9 million per year. I have a feeling that both end up in the $7.5 million to $8.5 million per year range.

If that's where you draw the line on their value, we're not going to get any FA WR without overpaying. I don't think your expectations are realistic.

 

[A55VA6]

Personally, I don't think Britt should be a priority.

I guess I worded this wrong. haha. I meant that re-signing Britt would probably be a better option than letting him walk and signing Garcon. Britt and Goff have chemistry, and Britt is younger.

Either way, we need to improve the WR position.

 

[jrry32]

Phillips likes LBs so the role might be more significant than you think. That being said most FAs are not worth the cost. Hightower has become a complete LB and remains on the field even in passing siuations. I brought him up because I think he would fit with Phillips.

The problem with Hightower is that he doesn't fit Phillips's defense well. I dug into Hightower's film because I thought he could be an under the radar addition at SOLB. However, when I watched his film, I didn't see enough pass rush potential at that spot. Hightower will likely be seeking a contract in the $8 million per year range (give or take $1 million per year).

You don't pay that sort of money to a guy who isn't an impact pass rusher (in that role). Yes, Hightower will defend the run and cover well. He makes a lot of sense for a team like New England who runs a bit of hybrid scheme.(Seattle too) But for us, he's just not a fit.

His spot in our scheme is SOLB, but I didn't see the ability for him to be a 6 to 10 sack per season player. He offered what guys like Courtney Upshaw and Jarvis Jones offer. The ability to stop the run and cover but very little pass rush potential. Guys like that just aren't in high demand in the 3-4.(but are in certain 4-3 schemes)

Some might argue that he fits at SILB, but I disagree. Wade generally prefers athletic, rangy ILBs. But even if you argue that Hightower could fit (there's room to argue that), he doesn't make sense at the price he'll be seeking. Why pay that price when we can get a guy who can do that job for very little in the draft or FA? Hightower's skillset just won't be maximized in that role.

If Hightower isn't re-signed by New England, I could see him landing in San Diego. He's ideal for that 4-3 Over SLB role. But I think that New England will keep him. His versatility is key to their defense.

 

[jrry32]

I guess I worded this wrong. haha. I meant that re-signing Britt would probably be a better option than letting him walk and signing Garcon. Britt and Goff have chemistry, and Britt is younger.

Either way, we need to improve the WR position.

I disagree. I'd rather have Garcon. Garcon is more proven, doesn't have the baggage, and knows the scheme. Britt only played 5 games with Goff. Chemistry is overrated. Goff will build chemistry with whatever WRs we give him. We have to break in a new scheme and coaching staff anyways.

I've more or less accepted that Britt is gone. I'm good with it. I don't trust him without Fisher, and I didn't like his attitude at times this year. I think Garcon's game will age better than Britt's. I think Garcon has a much better track record. I think Garcon is a better leader for this young WR corp. And I think Garcon's knowledge of the scheme would come in handy.

But yes, we definitely need to improve at WR. My preference is to add DeSean or Garcon (or both) and let Britt walk.

 

[Boston Ram]

The problem with Hightower is that he doesn't fit Phillips's defense well. I dug into Hightower's film because I thought he could be an under the radar addition at SOLB. However, when I watched his film, I didn't see enough pass rush potential at that spot. Hightower will likely be seeking a contract in the $8 million per year range (give or take $1 million per year).

You don't pay that sort of money to a guy who isn't an impact pass rusher (in that role). Yes, Hightower will defend the run and cover well. He makes a lot of sense for a team like New England who runs a bit of hybrid scheme.(Seattle too) But for us, he's just not a fit.

His spot in our scheme is SOLB, but I didn't see the ability for him to be a 6 to 10 sack per season player. He offered what guys like Courtney Upshaw and Jarvis Jones offer. The ability to stop the run and cover but very little pass rush potential. Guys like that just aren't in high demand in the 3-4.(but are in certain 4-3 schemes)

Some might argue that he fits at SILB, but I disagree. Wade generally prefers athletic, rangy ILBs. But even if you argue that Hightower could fit (there's room to argue that), he doesn't make sense at the price he'll be seeking. Why pay that price when we can get a guy who can do that job for very little in the draft or FA? Hightower's skillset just won't be maximized in that role.

If Hightower isn't re-signed by New England, I could see him landing in San Diego. He's ideal for that 4-3 Over SLB role. But I think that New England will keep him. His versatility is key to their defense.

I see him only filling the ILB spot, actually don't think he can play the outside.

Not familiar with what Wade's preference inside is, but I will take you word on paragraph 3.

Agree with your breakdown of the player who though.

 

[jrry32]

I see him only filling the ILB spot, actually don't think he can play the outside.

Not familiar with what Wade's preference inside is, but I will take you word on paragraph 3.

Agree with your breakdown of the player who though.

That's the problem. If he could play OLB, he would be perfect for that amount of money. Problem is he doesn't have any pass rush moves other than the bullrush.

If you look at Denver, they've treated their ILBs as replaceable. They've largely looked for rangy, instinctive ILBs. I don't know who was evaluating their ILBs, but that person is brilliant. He had Danny Trevathan (6'0" 237) and Brandon Marshall (6'1" 242) his first year in Denver. They let Trevathan leave in FA and replaced him with Todd Davis (6'1" 230). Trevathan was a 6th round pick. Marshall was a 5th round pick whom the Jaguars cut. Todd Davis was a UDFA whom the Saints cut.

That's why I'm not sweating the ILB spot. Personally, I think Barron and Ogletree can handle it. But if not, I'm sure Wade can direct us to what he needs. The rest of the NFL seem to undervalue the ILBs that he likes.

 

[Riverumbbq]

That's the problem. If he could play OLB, he would be perfect for that amount of money. Problem is he doesn't have any pass rush moves other than the bullrush.

If you look at Denver, they've treated their ILBs as replaceable. They've largely looked for rangy, instinctive ILBs. I don't know who was evaluating their ILBs, but that person is brilliant. He had Danny Trevathan (6'0" 237) and Brandon Marshall (6'1" 242) his first year in Denver. They let Trevathan leave in FA and replaced him with Todd Davis (6'1" 230). Trevathan was a 6th round pick. Marshall was a 5th round pick whom the Jaguars cut. Todd Davis was a UDFA whom the Saints cut.

That's why I'm not sweating the ILB spot. Personally, I think Barron and Ogletree can handle it. But if not, I'm sure Wade can direct us to what he needs. The rest of the NFL seem to undervalue the ILBs that he likes.

Well, ... I don't know man, think i'd take Hightower over either of our guys inside, but the money is likely to rule him out.
The reason i've suggested Ogletree as a trade option is that i'm doubtful he can handle it. Not sure about Barron either, although I suspect he'd be better as a MIKE ILB than Ogletree as a JACK ILB. As far as salary goes, both are outrageous prices to pay for interior ILB'ers without previous NFL experience at the position. I'd trade them both, but only Ogletree really comes with that option as Barron's contract likely cancels that possibility, ... unless we just CAP cut him, which does make some sense. Moving them both certainly opens some big CAP space. I could see the Rams sitting and waiting to see what happens with Hightower as he seeks top dollar, and if he lingers somewhat in free agency, then making a move for lower bucks. The problem is the money as well as fitting the scheme, so I wouldn't be at all surprised with two new faces inside, a mid range free agent and a draft pick. Or ... maybe even Morgan Fox or Josh Forrest as JACK and Bryce Hager as MIKE can compete for those positions ?
Take the savings and invest in your pass rushers, a starting LOLB and some depth. jmo.

 

[jrry32]

The reason i've suggested Ogletree as a trade option is that i'm doubtful he can handle it. Not sure about Barron either, although I suspect he'd be better as a MIKE ILB than Ogletree as a JACK ILB. As far as salary goes, both are outrageous prices to pay for interior ILB'ers without previous NFL experience at the position. I'd trade them both, but only Ogletree really comes with that option as Barron's contract likely cancels that possibility, ... unless we just CAP cut him, which does make some sense. Moving them both certainly opens some big CAP space. I could see the Rams sitting and waiting to see what happens with Hightower as he seeks top dollar, and if he lingers somewhat in free agency, then making a move for lower bucks. The problem is the money as well as fitting the scheme, so I wouldn't be at all surprised with two new faces inside, a mid range free agent and a draft pick. Or ... maybe even Morgan Fox or Josh Forrest as JACK and Bryce Hager as MIKE can compete for those positions ?
Take the savings and invest in your pass rushers, a starting LOLB and some depth. jmo.

Ogletree played ILB in a 3-4 in college for Todd Grantham. He's a perfect fit for Wade's scheme. We aren't going to trade him. It makes no sense to do it.

Morgan Fox as an ILB? I really think you're misunderstanding Wade's scheme. Wade's scheme is all about attacking the ball. Look at the height and weight of Denver's ILBs. They weren't using thumpers.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Ogletree played ILB in a 3-4 in college for Todd Grantham. He's a perfect fit for Wade's scheme. We aren't going to trade him. It makes no sense to do it.

Morgan Fox as an ILB? I really think you're misunderstanding Wade's scheme. Wade's scheme is all about attacking the ball. Look at the height and weight of Denver's ILBs. They weren't using thumpers.

Denver's Brandon Marshall is a stocky 6'1" 250lb. ILB, Fox is at 6'4" 259lbs. & Forrest is a 6'3" 249 pounder. Both Fox & Forrest had limited snaps, but they were grading much better than Ogletree as run defenders. As far as money and contract go, there may be no better time to trade Ogletree as he enters his 5'th year option with an $8.3mil + CAP hit and no dead money. He'll be a free agent in 2018 and probably be looking for Barron type money at a position which may not be his best. Sure Ogletree played ILB in college, but even his draft analysis pegged a more successful future as a 4/3 WLB :

"WEAKNESSES
Rarely uses hands to fight with blockers despite an aggressive mentality. Overruns a lot of plays between the tackles, struggles to recover. Has a lot of issues dealing with second-level blocks from the offensive line, rarely can work over top of them, winds up walled off. Run and chase player at this point, loses gap integrity with false or wasted steps. Dives or lunges for a lot of tackles rather than running through them and wrapping up. Mentality changes when attacking an offensive lineman compared to a running back.
NFL COMPARISON
Thomas Davis
BOTTOM LINE
It is tough to question Ogletree's athleticism at linebacker. Just watching him close on runs or swing passes on the edge is worth the price of admission. Despite playing the last two years at inside linebacker, it would not be surprising to see Ogletree make the switch to weakside linebacker in a defense that uses a four-man front. Struggles to get over top of blocks but does his best work chasing and closing. Expect the Bulldog to be a three-down player if he cuts down on wasted steps."

Based on size and weight, i'd guess that Ogletree would be that JACK ILB, and we'd be asking him to use those hands to fight with blockers, ... not exactly his forte'. Denver has several lighter/smaller guys like our own Barron, Hager & Grigsby, these are not thumpers. Wade Phillips brought in 2 ILB's while at Denver, one at 220lbs. and another at 243lbs.

 

[jrry32]

Denver's Brandon Marshall is a stocky 6'1" 250lb. ILB, Fox is at 6'4" 259lbs. & Forrest is a 6'3" 249 pounder. Both Fox & Forrest had limited snaps, but they were grading much better than Ogletree as run defenders.

Morgan Fox played along the defensive line. He's not nearly athletic enough to play ILB in Wade's scheme. And Forrest is 6'3" 249 vs. Ogletree's 6'2" 245. No real size difference.

As far as money and contract go, there may be no better time to trade Ogletree as he enters his 5'th year option with an $8.3mil + CAP hit and no dead money. He'll be a free agent in 2018 and probably be looking for Barron type money at a position which may not be his best.

It's not going to happen. Ogletree is a great fit for this scheme. It's shocking to me that anybody wants to get rid of a guy who was just named a Second-Team All Pro.

Sure Ogletree played ILB in college, but even his draft analysis pegged a more successful future as a 4/3 WLB :

"WEAKNESSES
Rarely uses hands to fight with blockers despite an aggressive mentality. Overruns a lot of plays between the tackles, struggles to recover. Has a lot of issues dealing with second-level blocks from the offensive line, rarely can work over top of them, winds up walled off. Run and chase player at this point, loses gap integrity with false or wasted steps. Dives or lunges for a lot of tackles rather than running through them and wrapping up. Mentality changes when attacking an offensive lineman compared to a running back.
NFL COMPARISON
Thomas Davis
BOTTOM LINE
It is tough to question Ogletree's athleticism at linebacker. Just watching him close on runs or swing passes on the edge is worth the price of admission. Despite playing the last two years at inside linebacker, it would not be surprising to see Ogletree make the switch to weakside linebacker in a defense that uses a four-man front. Struggles to get over top of blocks but does his best work chasing and closing. Expect the Bulldog to be a three-down player if he cuts down on wasted steps."

Based on size and weight, i'd guess that Ogletree would be that JACK ILB, and we'd be asking him to use those hands to fight with blockers, ... not exactly his forte'. Denver has several lighter/smaller guys like our own Barron, Hager & Grigsby, these are not thumpers. Wade Phillips brought in 2 ILB's while at Denver, one at 220lbs. and another at 243lbs.

I don't know where you're coming up with this assumption. You keep assuming that Wade Phillips runs a run of the mill 3-4. It's not how it works. Phillips is known for building his defense around his talent. Phillips is not going to use Ogletree in a thumper role. You don't get to be arguably the best DC in the NFL by doing silly things like that.

Here's the NFL.com scouting report on a guy who was outstanding in Wade's scheme in 2015:

STRENGTHS
Trevathan is a good lateral mover who makes plays sideline to sideline. He can run everything down. He relies on his speed to rush the passer and brings a physical, explosive drive-shoulder tackle when he reaches the quarterback. He has good hands to secure interceptions and is active in the pass game even though he struggles when dropping. A classic undersized, athletic lateral mover at outside backer.
WEAKNESSES
Trevathan is an undersized backer who can struggle to shed away from bigger offensive lineman. He should be able to pass drop given his size, but he struggles there as well and seems to be unaware in terms of recognition and understanding how to play in space when defending the pass. He is better in tight and gets somewhat exposed when playing zone coverage. He can also be slow to diagnose plays at times; he needs to hit plays full speed to be effective. He can overrun plays at times even though he is effective in chase.

Wade Phillips isn't oblivious to the strengths and weaknesses of his players. He's not going to put Ogletree in a position that masks his strengths and magnifies his flaws.

If Phillips wants a thumper, he'll move Barron to SS or trade him. Ogletree won't be the guy moved.

 

[Riverumbbq]

1) Morgan Fox played defensive line, dude. And Forrest is 6'3" 249 vs. Ogletree's 6'2" 245.

2) It's not going to happen. Ogletree is a great fit for this scheme. It's shocking to me that anybody wants to get rid of a guy who was just named a Second-Team All Pro.

3) I don't know where you're coming up with this assumption. You keep assuming that Wade Phillips runs a run of the mill 3-4. It's not how it works. Phillips is known for building his defense around his talent. Phillips is not going to use Ogletree in a thumper role. You don't get to be arguably the best DC in the NFL by doing silly things like that.

4) Wade Phillips isn't oblivious to the strengths and weaknesses of his players. He's not going to put Ogletree in a position that masks his strengths and magnifies his flaws.

1) So does Quinn play DL in a 4/3. Not sure what your comparison between Forrest & Ogletree's size is supposed to mean, they are pretty close.

2) Time will tell whether he's a great fit or not, i'm not nearly as certain as you seem to be, but I am hoping for the best. I really don't care about the award, not as much as I do that he graded at #51 overall among the 87 graded LB'ers, and that his run blocking was terrible. As a 3/4 ILB, those run blocking skills requiring him to take on and chipping blockers are likely even more pronounced.

3) I've never assumed this, and my past posts should be proof enough. I also understand that 'Phillips is known for building his defense around his talent', but there is often two ILB'ers with two different skill sets, and I question whether Ogletree can find success with either one or if he is more suitable to his old role as a WLB where he was doing very well. I also question the wisdom of paying such big money to a guy who will be playing his 3'rd position in 3 years, especially if the position isn't his best and he's a season from free agency. Ogletree isn't a thumper and he won't be playing that role, but he will be required to block or chip offensive linemen. I suspect his role would be closer to what is expected of Brandon Marshall.

4) I expect that Wade will do his best to work Ogletree's strengths, but all players have strong points & flaws, and while I hope that Phillips turns 'Tree' into a HoF'er, he may yet turn out to be a better WLB than ILB.
You seem upset that someone would question his ability in this new system, but fans also question whether Hayes, Brockers, Quinn, & Barron will fare well, ... it's not out of the ordinary to seek answers where changes of responsibility occur, there will be adjustments and hopefully it all goes smoothly. You yourself gave credit to whomever was responsible for certain Denver ILB moves, stating ; 'If you look at Denver, they've treated their ILBs as replaceable', ... no reason why we fans can't do the same, especially when the Ogletree/Barron CAP hit comes in at near $19.3 mil.