Not impressed with the hands up BS displayed by the Rams WRs

[-X-]

Now can anyone honestly tell me that if this guy was black that he wouldn't have been dead within a few minutes with that loaded rifle?

And that's the REAL issue. Police treat these incidents differently.

I dunno. I'll bet if that dude aimed that gun at anyone, he'd be dead right now. It's kind of presumptuous to think that an elderly black male doing the same thing wouldn't have been treated in the same manner. Perhaps (PERHAPS) a young black male in that situation would have been given less latitude with regard to how that weapon was being handled, but I have to imagine a young white male would also be perceived as more of a threat than an old man.

 

[Mackeyser]

I can't find the video because of all the stuff lately, but there was a 16 or 17 year old male with a loaded shotgun who was approached by an officer and not only did he refuse to relinquish his weapon, he refused to comply with the officer's request for name or ID. It was on a small pier that was used for fishing, I think and the people around him weren't remotely comfortable with this clear show of Open Carry force. There was a belligerence that the officer was trying to address and the young man in the video was having none of it.

The officer walked away in the video.

So, young or old, the white folks got off. The young black man in the Walmart wasn't even given the opportunity to comply with orders as he was shot the second the police could put him in their gun sights. I mean, seriously.... to not even order the man to drop the weapon and get on the ground before firing?WTF?

And the more this gets examined, the more videos and the more documented evidence we are finding that this stuff is relatively common.

It really reminds me of the Rodney King incident in that prior to that, when there was a racial incident, so much of America would rise up and say that "cops wouldn't do that"... once that video came out, it at the very least put to rest the notion that it NEVER happens. And because they tried to charge Rodney King afterwards, we all got to see exactly how it happens every day.

What we're going to find as more and more evidence is discovered is that unequal policing is endemic to inner city areas and until that is addressed, we'll just continue to see blatantly obvious examples of disparate policing for whites and peoples of color.

 

[Prime Time]

It's recurring problem with political (and religious) threads. Everyone comes in already having made up their minds and feeling like THEIR POV is the only rational one if you've really seen the evidence and thought about the situation. So instead of discussion, you get attempts to enlighten those idiots who think differently than you to "the truth".

It's an easy trap to fall into regardless of whichever side you come in to the argument taking.

This is not a political thread, if it was it would have been locked. This is a thread that deals with societal issues. The vast majority of the posts in this thread, around 99%, have avoided the RamsTalk syndrome of trashing fellow members. This goes to show that even potentially hot-button topics can be handled here at ROD in a civilized manner. We already knew that but it bears mentioning again. So thanks to everyone here.

 

[RamFan503]

Not really. It's like saying you don't like politicians or slaughterhouse workers. Disliking a certain profession because of the abuse of power some of them exhibit is perfectly normal; and while it might be prejudicial, it's a different animal than racism and/or oppression altogether.

I don't like anyone who plays, cheers, or coaches for the Whiners or Shecocks. In fact, I would go so far as to call it a hatred. I have to admit - I'm prejudiced. Hey - that was kind of cathartic.

 

[Boffo97]

This is not a political thread, if it was it would have been locked. This is a thread that deals with societal issues. The vast majority of the posts in this thread, around 99%, have avoided the RamsTalk syndrome of trashing fellow members. This goes to show that even potentially hot-button topics can be handled here at ROD in a civilized manner. We already knew that but it bears mentioning again. So thanks to everyone here.

Just to kind of stick up for my post here, I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said, and agree that it has been civil for the vast majority.

My point is that I don't see anyone leaving with a different opinion than the one they came in with. But maybe you could say that's the point for all the serious threads and that there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[-X-]

I can't find the video because of all the stuff lately, but there was a 16 or 17 year old male with a loaded shotgun who was approached by an officer and not only did he refuse to relinquish his weapon, he refused to comply with the officer's request for name or ID. It was on a small pier that was used for fishing, I think and the people around him weren't remotely comfortable with this clear show of Open Carry force. There was a belligerence that the officer was trying to address and the young man in the video was having none of it.

The officer walked away in the video.

So, young or old, the white folks got off. The young black man in the Walmart wasn't even given the opportunity to comply with orders as he was shot the second the police could put him in their gun sights. I mean, seriously.... to not even order the man to drop the weapon and get on the ground before firing?WTF?

And the more this gets examined, the more videos and the more documented evidence we are finding that this stuff is relatively common.

It really reminds me of the Rodney King incident in that prior to that, when there was a racial incident, so much of America would rise up and say that "cops wouldn't do that"... once that video came out, it at the very least put to rest the notion that it NEVER happens. And because they tried to charge Rodney King afterwards, we all got to see exactly how it happens every day.

What we're going to find as more and more evidence is discovered is that unequal policing is endemic to inner city areas and until that is addressed, we'll just continue to see blatantly obvious examples of disparate policing for whites and peoples of color.

I understand your point, and I respect it too. My question would be, what's the likelier of reasons for this "trend"? Is it because the majority of cops are racist, or because their experiences in dealing with violent crime and guns are more prevalent in certain communities and/or with certain races? The FBI estimates that there are some 33,000 gangs in the United States with some 1.4 million active members - of which 48% to as much as 90% of the violent crime can be accounted for in certain jurisdictions [source]. If you had to guess, what percentage of those members would you say were white, and how often would you say cops have run-ins with white gang members? You know, aside from the obvious Aryan (skinheads) and motorcycle gangs that they can spot from a mile away?

 

[-X-]

Just to kind of stick up for my post here, I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said, and agree that it has been civil for the vast majority.

My point is that I don't see anyone leaving with a different opinion than the one they came in with. But maybe you could say that's the point for all the serious threads and that there's nothing wrong with that.

You're right. Nobody is going to change their opinions if they had them already formed prior to this discussion. For the most part this seems to be an important dialogue that the Nation's political and civil leaders need to have at some point. Me, personally, I don't have a 'side' on this. I see wrong in a lot of places and am just pointing out my personal feelings and observations. So ... "not it!"

 

[RamFan503]

I see wrong in a lot of places and am just pointing out my personal feelings and observations. So ... "not it!"

This is pretty much my position here. There is plenty of wrong crap going on. But I try to take each case on it's own merits and not lump them all together toward an end position. So..... not it!

 

[Thordaddy]

And contrast all that with incidents like this:

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/06/dash_cam_footage_from_open_car.html

In Kalamazoo, MI, a belligerent WHITE man with a LOADED rifle stood on a public road. Was he instantly shot dead like the man just outside Ferguson who stole those two sodas in 23 seconds? Certainly he was MORE of a threat. But...nope.

The cops spent 40 minutes talking him down, eventually getting the gun WHICH THEY RETURNED TO HIM THE NEXT DAY!!!

Now can anyone honestly tell me that if this guy was black that he wouldn't have been dead within a few minutes with that loaded rifle?

And that's the REAL issue. Police treat these incidents differently.

Oh, and the Walmart police weren't indicted, either, even though it's clear that they provided the man zero instruction to disarm or any chance to comply with any instructions... it's apparently NOT a crime to just take someone's word for it that "nebulous black man with a something that looks like a gun is a significant threat to life and property" and simply kill him without any further information. I mean, the officers didn't even take the time to do a decent reconnoiter.

Watch the video. I think the officers did a fine job.

I just wish that behavior extended to ALL members of the community, including people of color.

And Mac my old friend and sometimes adversary if you and I were arguing about global warming and I advanced an argument like that ,you would say what exactly? anecdotal evidence that reinforces your personal bias but doesn't prove it.

JMO race is being injected into this equation more because it can be than because it is, behemoth like Mike Brown starts whoopin on me in my cop car I'm not sure I shoot him ,think I would his ethnicity wouldn't matter to me, and I damn sure wouldn't let him get away,you can turn the other cheek but I don't think you are working on your grappling to do that.

 

[jrry32]

I understand your point, and I respect it too. My question would be, what's the likelier of reasons for this "trend"? Is it because the majority of cops are racist, or because their experiences in dealing with violent crime and guns are more prevalent in certain communities and/or with certain races? The FBI estimates that there are some 33,000 gangs in the United States with some 1.4 million active members - of which 48% to as much as 90% of the violent crime can be accounted for in certain jurisdictions [source]. If you had to guess, what percentage of those members would you say were white, and how often would you say cops have run-ins with white gang members? You know, aside from the obvious Aryan (skinheads) and motorcycle gangs that they can spot from a mile away?

It shouldn't matter. People should be treated equally and innocent American citizens should not be murdered by the cops. That guy hadn't done anything illegal. And the cops shot him.

Not only did that happen but THEY DIDN'T GET CHARGED. Do you think you could get away with that as an American citizen? Claiming you feared for your life so you shot a man that wasn't breaking the law from that distance? No.

Those cops should have been held accountable for murdering that man.

 

[-X-]

It shouldn't matter. People should be treated equally and innocent American citizens should not be murdered by the cops. That guy hadn't done anything illegal. And the cops shot him.

Not only did that happen but THEY DIDN'T GET CHARGED. Do you think you could get away with that as an American citizen? Claiming you feared for your life so you shot a man that wasn't breaking the law from that distance? No.

Those cops should have been held accountable for murdering that man.

Like I said, man. Imperfect world. There are billions of injustices that go on throughout the world that shouldn't happen (genocide, human-trafficking, animal abuse, etc). But they do anyway. Yes, I agree, all citizens should not be murdered by the cops - that's a no-brainer. I don't know who you're referring to when you say "that guy" though. There are too many different topics being discussed in this thread. Talking about Michael Brown? If so, yes ... he did do things that were illegal. But that doesn't mean he should have been killed.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Police should not be above the law. Period.
Unfortunately, it's proven over and over again that they are.

The special treatment given to these men and women that have chosen their profession is beyond acceptable.

Why is it that if someone is murdered or missing, the police are "doing everything we can"?
When it's an officer that is murdered or missing it becomes a "man hunt"?

 

[bluecoconuts]

I dunno. I'll bet if that dude aimed that gun at anyone, he'd be dead right now. It's kind of presumptuous to think that an elderly black male doing the same thing wouldn't have been treated in the same manner. Perhaps (PERHAPS) a young black male in that situation would have been given less latitude with regard to how that weapon was being handled, but I have to imagine a young white male would also be perceived as more of a threat than an old man.

A few weeks back a 12 year old (I believe, if not 12, then close to it) black kid was holding a toy gun at a park waving it at people at a park. A guy called it in, and said he was pretty sure the gun was fake, but wanted to be sure.

Cops roll up about 5 feet away from him, jump out of the car and shoot him in about 2 seconds. Granted dispatch didn't relay that it was possibly fake, but it was pretty bad, they didn't even give the kid a chance, I'm not sure they even said anything to him, it was damn near an execution... Not good.

 

[-X-]

Why is it that if someone is murdered or missing, the police are "doing everything we can"?
When it's an officer that is murdered or missing it becomes a "man hunt"?

Mostly because there's hundreds of thousands of people who are reported missing each year, and not a lot of cops who go missing (stats below). And when someone murders a cop, I - personally - would like to see every cop in the Country looking for THAT guy. Because that person certainly has no regard for anyone else's life if he'll kill a police officer.

During 2013, 627,911 missing person records were entered into NCIC, a decrease of 5.1% from the 661,593 records entered in 2012. Missing Person records cleared or canceled during the same period totaled 630,990. Reasons for these removals include: a law enforcement agency located the subject, the individual returned home, or the record had to be removed by the entering agency due to a determination that the record is invalid [source].

 

[-X-]

A few weeks back a 12 year old (I believe, if not 12, then close to it) black kid was holding a toy gun at a park waving it at people at a park. A guy called it in, and said he was pretty sure the gun was fake, but wanted to be sure.

Cops roll up about 5 feet away from him, jump out of the car and shoot him in about 2 seconds. Granted dispatch didn't relay that it was possibly fake, but it was pretty bad, they didn't even give the kid a chance, I'm not sure they even said anything to him, it was damn near an execution... Not good.

I remember that. I also remember that he pointed it at the cops when he was told to drop it.
Is that how it happened?

 

[Dodgersrf]

Mostly because there's hundreds of thousands of people who are reported missing each year, and not a lot of cops who go missing (stats below). And when someone murders a cop, I - personally - would like to see every cop in the Country looking for THAT guy. Because that person certainly has no regard for anyone else's life if he'll kill a police officer.

During 2013, 627,911 missing person records were entered into NCIC, a decrease of 5.1% from the 661,593 records entered in 2012. Missing Person records cleared or canceled during the same period totaled 630,990. Reasons for these removals include: a law enforcement agency located the subject, the individual returned home, or the record had to be removed by the entering agency due to a determination that the record is invalid [source].

Is it worse to kill a police officer than a citizen?

 

[-X-]

Is it worse to kill a police officer than a citizen?

Nope. But that's not what I was replying to either.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I remember that. I also remember that he pointed it at the cops when he was told to drop it.
Is that how it happened?

Is it? I saw the video really quick, it looked like they just rolled up on him, I don't know tons of details, I just was taken back that they came up on him instead of parking away and getting behind the car in cover.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Nope. But that's not what I was replying to either.

I understand the point on missing persons. Many are just runaways or people that just don't want to be found.
Most cases they won't even allow a report made before 24 hours or more. By then it's usually too late.

 

[jrry32]

Like I said, man. Imperfect world. There are billions of injustices that go on throughout the world that shouldn't happen (genocide, human-trafficking, animal abuse, etc). But they do anyway. Yes, I agree, all citizens should not be murdered by the cops - that's a no-brainer. I don't know who you're referring to when you say "that guy" though. There are too many different topics being discussed in this thread. Talking about Michael Brown? If so, yes ... he did do things that were illegal. But that doesn't mean he should have been killed.

Crawford. The guy shot in WalMart that was innocent of any crime.

Don't care about injustices in the world. I care about injustices here. Those cops should have been charged.