New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[bluecoconuts]

Fabiani straight out said it was locked in, a done deal, would be done by the end of March. I've been of the opinion that he's been the mouth piece for a bluff. This is consistent with that but certainly doesn't prove anything...

Yeah I get that feeling too. That's why I get the sense that the NFL is hoping that Davis will signal willingness to relocate to St Louis, which means they can justify to themselves having the Rams leave, knowing that they (the NFL) wont be abandoning the market, since another team will replace it. That gets LA done, St Louis remains an NFL city, and Spanos has the option to either work more in San Diego, or join Kroenke in LA. Of course that requires Kroenke and Spanos working together, which they don't seem happy to do at this point, and Davis relocating out of California, which it's hard to say how he feels there.

We'll find out more information later on, but if I was forced to place a bet, that's the outcome I'd go with given everything that's happened thus far.

 

[RamFan503]

What unions? I didn't know that any of the stadium workers were union. I thought they were part time food service type employees. Seems like only maintenance would be full time, and they'd work anyway.

I know the workers that work the Rose Garden for the Blazer games in Portland are union employees. I just assumed they all were. I probably wouldn't even know that if they hadn't gone on strike or threatened to a few years ago. But it also came up with the Inglewood project. The unions were threatening to gather signatures against the project because no one had committed that the jobs for working the stadium would be union jobs.

I know virtually every sports complex in LA is union as are the employees in NY sports and entertainment venues. Maybe St Louis is different. IDK.

 

[RamFan503]

I never understood why it had to be one or the other...

Larger metaphor - why does someone need to fish if they already have one?

 

[RamFan503]

I'm not saying it would be one or the other, just that the part time food service guys are much more transient in how long they stay employed by a single organization, so they typically are much less likely to organize. Most are just there until something better pans out or just there for some extra cash.

If they are indeed that type of employee. I don't see how they could be full time when they are only needed to support 10 days a year, minus playoffs.

They actually work several venues and events from my understanding.

 

[Hacksaw]

It was a dump, lots of toxic gasses. They did some clean up, so its almost ready to be built on, but needs more. They also need to have constant maintenance done so the toxic gasses are safely removed in a controlled way, rather than just leaking through the soil (and likely stinking up the air as well), which will supposedly cost between 200,000-300,000 dollars per year.
I believe they will put some plastic sheet under everything so they can funnel the gasses to where they want them to go.
Its doable, but its not ideal. The NFL turned it down before and that was among the reasons.

Yes they place a huge PVC liner covering all the rotted material which produces methane. It then gets funneled into pipes which bring it to the surface. It either gets burnt off or captured and removed. Some cities are doing this with landfills and running generators of the methane which produce electric energy.
That region also has a history and potential for liquefaction as there are loamy soil conditions and ground water below the surface. Also oil is seeping up in the vicinity.
The location is great. That's probably why the NFL has looked at it in the past. Freeway close to everything in LA and near the South Bay which is nice. The conditions I mentioned are probably why it has never been done. I mean the Chargers have been free agents for 8 years.
The only reason they are doing this now is because of what Stan is doing.

I believe the Carson land essentially is still in the "seller is obligated to sell, buyer obligated to buy" mode. My guess is that changes if they get a green light.

It's in that mode until it isn't. If both parties agree to dissolve it, no deal is done. Or if the league give it a go, the money might start moving.
Unless it's all a charade and they are just reading off their script. Is this a special meeting?
Unlike 20 years ago, people can and are watching them this time.

Yeah Hacksaw, a quorum is just a term for the fewest number of members of an organization needed for a valid meeting. I believe any rule changes or decisions that the quorum makes can be appealed by the majority.

Thank you for the explanation.
The appeal part are you certain? It would make sense.

 

[RamFan503]

Fabiani straight out said it was locked in, a done deal, would be done by the end of March. I've been of the opinion that he's been the mouth piece for a bluff. This is consistent with that but certainly doesn't prove anything...

It's kind of interesting really. People acknowledge that Stan is a developer and can do other things with the Inglewood property - which he can. But Spanos is a developer as well. Granted - not in Stan's league but he made his money developing apartment complexes throughout CA. I have to guess he is getting a pretty sweetheart deal on that land being that it used to be a landfill and likely will need at minimum something like methane containment/exhausting for the foreseeable future. I don't honestly know all that will be required of the land to make it useable for something of the heft of a stadium but it just seems a bit difficult for me to get my head around what the costs would be to provide the kind of stability for that much concrete and steel in the middle of earthquake country while still ensuring that what is under the ground remains contained.

Maybe they will be putting in some sort of facility to harvest the gasses? Maybe that is why there is not other development as part of their plan? I don't know but it sure sounds less than ideal unless you are figuring how the land deal affects Spanos' wallet.

 

[Hacksaw]

And the Carson Stadium neighborhood. Sweet.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...-los-angeles-california-8_19_531.html;843;562

 

[Hacksaw]

It's kind of interesting really. People acknowledge that Stan is a developer and can do other things with the Inglewood property - which he can. But Spanos is a developer as well.
I don't know but it sure sounds less than ideal unless you are figuring how the land deal affects Spanos' wallet.

So let me get this straight. Developer 1 buys land in LA CA and has plans to develop it. Developer 2 reacts to loss of leverage developer 1 creates and puts together a plan to build in LA too.
All this talk is about the bylaws not letting Developer 1 move because you can't move for the purpose of increasing wealth. So this is somehow acceptable for Developer 2 ?
To make everything equal, SD needs to present their plan with financials. Same with Oakland and St Louis. Who ever doesn't should be sent to the back of the line.
And just because LA, Oak and SD are all in California, we must remember that Ca is 840 miles long. Oak is 370 mile away from LA and SD is 125. For perspective 370 is also the distance form St Louis to Tennessee. Chicago is just under 296 miles from StL, 242 StL to Indianapolis, and 247 StL to KC.
In other words the move for the Chargers would be similar to Philly to Washington and further than NY to Philly. A move for Oakland is a greater distance than most of my other examples.
Point being, for the Chargers to move even 125 miles, they are relocating to a completely different region. A rival region to boot and they are thinking of doing it with one of their fiercest divisional rivals.
Whack-o ride the NFL is taking us on.

 

[BuiltRamTough]

There's also another difference between the 2 sites. Inglewood's by Beverly Hills, Bel-Air,Hollywood,Santa Monica, Burbank etc. Carson is more towards the low economy city's like Compton. I live in LA I know this. If you look on google maps you'll see the difference between the two.

This might not be the deciding factor of choosing between the two sites but make no mistake, there is a difference.

 

[bluecoconuts]

There's also another difference between the 2 sites. Inglewood's by Beverly Hills, Bel-Air,Hollywood,Santa Monica, Burbank etc. Carson is more towards the low economy city's like Compton. I live in LA I know this. If you look on google maps you'll see the difference between the two.

This might not be the deciding factor of choosing between the two sites but make no mistake, there is a difference.

To be fair, Inglewood isn't exactly known for being an upscale area either. They have done a lot to change this though, and have made progress. It is closer to the "rich" areas, but Torrance is right next to Carson, and its not a bad place.

I'm not big on it being right off the 405 either, the freeway is already bad enough, at least the few miles of buffer in Inglewood may help that. I don't know how Rams games in LA were, but I know that going to Staples or a USC game, that freeway backs up about 5 miles in the exit lanes, which naturally spills over to the others. I shudder to think of how bad it'll be on the 405 during game days. Its gonna suck either way, but I get the feeling Carson will suck worse. Plus people coming south have to deal with the Sepulveda pass, then LAX, and then Stadium traffic? Nightmare.

 

[RamFan503]

Inglewood's by Beverly Hills, Bel-Air,Hollywood,Santa Monica, Burbank etc.

Define "by". San Diego is "by" Tijuana.

To be fair, Inglewood isn't exactly known for being an upscale area either.

Yeah - Inglewood has gotten pretty rough over the years. It is no where near the what it was when they built things like The Forum and Hollywood Park.

That said, the weather and the infrastructure is still there. I could see the Hollywood Park project changing a lot of that. Carson on the other hand from my recollection would be more difficult IMO. That area has a long history of heavy industrial use and much of it is still there. Just seems like a stadium there would be lipstick on a pig. No offense to those who call Carson home but.... just sayin'.

 

[Goose]

 

[BuiltRamTough]

Define "by". San Diego is "by" Tijuana.


Yeah - Inglewood has gotten pretty rough over the years. It is no where near the what it was when they built things like The Forum and Hollywood Park.

That said, the weather and the infrastructure is still there. I could see the Hollywood Park project changing a lot of that. Carson on the other hand from my recollection would be more difficult IMO. That area has a long history of heavy industrial use and much of it is still there. Just seems like a stadium there would be lipstick on a pig. No offense to those who call Carson home but.... just sayin'.

Inglewood is bad too. I meant the surrounding areas.

 

[BuiltRamTough]

To be fair, Inglewood isn't exactly known for being an upscale area either. They have done a lot to change this though, and have made progress. It is closer to the "rich" areas, but Torrance is right next to Carson, and its not a bad place.

I'm not big on it being right off the 405 either, the freeway is already bad enough, at least the few miles of buffer in Inglewood may help that. I don't know how Rams games in LA were, but I know that going to Staples or a USC game, that freeway backs up about 5 miles in the exit lanes, which naturally spills over to the others. I shudder to think of how bad it'll be on the 405 during game days. Its gonna suck either way, but I get the feeling Carson will suck worse. Plus people coming south have to deal with the Sepulveda pass, then LAX, and then Stadium traffic? Nightmare.

There's a huge difference between Torrance and Beverly Hills. It's not a deal breaker Bc I think Carson is viable and it could work. The 405 freeway is horrible.

 

[Angry Ram]

And the Carson Stadium neighborhood. Sweet.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=681&q=carson refinery&oq=carson refiner&gs_l=img.1.0.0j0i5i30l2j0i24l7.1441.23672.0.26466.18.17.0.1.1.0.321.2117.0j16j0j1.17.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.64.img..0.18.2114.i0rYaJMA8BU#imgrc=Kd7c595YySHjQM%3A;Z3gVVXg6F0IcVM;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fritzmuellerphoto.com%2Fdata%2Fphotos%2F531_1Muellerf_20080417_000601_14.jpg;http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fritzmuellerphoto.com%2Fenvironment%2Fbp-carson-oil-refinery-at-long-beach-los-angeles-california-8_19_531.html;843;562

I interned at a refinery. It can get really stinky. Plus if there is flares going, it's not a pretty place.

 

[Hacksaw]

ric Grubman says an NFL team must "engage in a good faith effort" before relocating. "It doesn't need to exhaust all possibilities."— Michael Gehlken (@UTgehlken) April 14, 2015

Where did this come from? I think everything is being taken a bit to literally when it comes to these league guys.

 

[RamFan503]

Thanks for posting that Goose. Funny though - the more questions Grubman answers the less any of the answers seem to mean. I think he is just getting more polished in his non-answers.

 

[Goose]

Where did this come from? I think everything is being taken a bit to literally when it comes to these league guys.

I agree and I was a bit taken a back when readying this statement because that is not at all that we have been told to this point. This statement would play very much in Stan's favor if arbitration is considered "good faith effort". Then he says that the Charges need to continue the good faith effort which may work against Stan because he has not continued to work in good faith. At least that is the perception.

 

[RamFan503]

I interned at a refinery. It can get really stinky. Plus if there is flares going, it's not a pretty place.

Yep. And I have driven by that site. On a lot of days, it will make your eyes water - unless things have changed lately. It may seem odd but from my recollection, the weather in Inglewood just a few miles from Carson is WAY better. I'm not even sure why either. Inglewood just seems to have a more constant breeze going. Anyone else notice that?

 

[Thordaddy]

Larger metaphor - why does someone need to fish if they already have one?

And if yo u keep giving fish to them their is no need to learn