New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[bluecoconuts]

I don't disagree with you, as I posted before money talks. I just don't see how anyone can claim that the Rams are in a worse situation than Oakland or San Diego. And I do think a large part of the ST Louis strategy involves marketing to another team.

They're not really, but the problem is the promises made to the Rams if they came. St Louis bent themselves over and made awful deals to lure a team there in the first place, deals they couldn't possibly keep. Which allows the Rams to pack up and go if those outlandish promises aren't kept, as well as sets the stage for the team to ask for almost everything because they got so much last time.

A lot of the reason why St Louis may lose the Rams, and why their likely so hesitant to give in to any of Stans demands is the awful deal in the past. Essentially they failed to even meet half way on almost all of what Stan and the Rams wanted, and at this point seem content to stand pat.

Stan may offer a counter, but I have a feeling he'll just say no, point out everything that is wrong and leave it at that. It'll be up to the city to seriously up their game and offer something realistic for him to consider. If he does offer a counter, its probably a good sign though, depending on what it is. He's done enough to justify a move to the owners though, and it won't be hard to convince them. Too many big name owners have said they want a team there, for a single owner to get the votes needed to block. Gotta imagine right off the bat there's 4 teams easily voting yes, the Rams and the rest of the NFC West. Then the Chiefs so they can potentially expand into the market, probably the Titans and Colts as well as they're close enough. Potentially even the Bears. Then there's big name owners like Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft have already said they want a team there, and they have pull. So the list of teams that may block is really low. Chargers, maybe Raiders, maybe Bills if they decide to continue that tradition. Otherwise I don't know who has motivation to do so.

 

[RamFan503]

The part I'm most curious about is exactly how much interest there is from other teams to move to St Louis. I think most people agree Stan has the money and power to move wherever he wants. So where does that leave the Chargers or Raiders? That's a very direct competitor for the Chargers.

One thing I don't get is why is it a problem now that the Rams would compete with the Chargers' market? The Rams, Chargers, Raiduhs, and whiners all played in CA before. Everyone knows there will be an NFL team in LA at some point. That team would be competition too - no?

But let's face it. Stan has the money and power to stay in St Louis too. I just think it is going to take a much grander plan than the one proposed to make him want to stay. All uber rich guys have huge egos and want to leave a legacy. I personally think Stan would have preferred to have that legacy be as favored son of Missouri. But I don't see him doing it with a property he can't control and a vision that frankly is accepting of small market status.

 

[blue4]

One thing I don't get is why is it a problem now that the Rams would compete with the Chargers' market? The Rams, Chargers, Raiduhs, and whiners all played in CA before. Everyone knows there will be an NFL team in LA at some point. That team would be competition too - no?

But let's face it. Stan has the money and power to stay in St Louis too. I just think it is going to take a much grander plan than the one proposed to make him want to stay. All uber rich guys have huge egos and want to leave a legacy. I personally think Stan would have preferred to have that legacy be as favored son of Missouri. But I don't see him doing it with a property he can't control and a vision that frankly is accepting of small market status.

They competed 20 years ago. Would you want to see a competitor come back to compete with your business? I doubt the Chargers would support any team going there.

I don't see the city building a stadium and giving it to him so I don't think we can compete with it. Hence my curiosity about the likelihood of wooing another team. TBH Stan's product on the field has been so bad over the last 15 years he's probably not going to get a whole lot more than that.

 

[RamFan503]

They competed 20 years ago. Would you want to see a competitor come back to compete with your business? I doubt the Chargers would support any team going there.

I don't see the city building a stadium and giving it to him so I don't think we can compete with it. Hence my curiosity about the likelihood of wooing another team. TBH Stan's product on the field has been so bad over the last 15 years he's probably not going to get a whole lot more than that.

I understand it was 20 years ago but some team is going to be in LA. Are they not going to be considered competition?

Realistically, Stan was not calling these shots as a minority owner. It was basically Shaw with input from his fellow clown Ziggy. Stan began calling the shots when he became the majority owner. The last three years have shown quite a bit of improvement and promise IMO.

 

[rhinobean]

Would have been better for STL to announce they were working on a stadium plan a year ago, that's for sure! Not sure how much feedback the Rams gave the powers that be once the arbitrator sided with the Rams. I suppose they thought the "Honorable Man" would give them an idea that maybe since you don't want to mess with the dome, you'll do better with a new stadium instead! Not a fan of folks at the CVC as it is and the mayor but damn, something needed to be done somewhere!

 

[Username]

It's a little too early for the hatred, but I know fans want to hear something from him. It makes no sense for him to say anything right now while the process is unfolding but fans aren't logical and they want assurances. Well that cannot happen during high stakes negotiations like this. It has never happened in any stadium negotiations. It doesn't even really happen in contract negotiations with players.

Fans are often unreasonable and lack any depth of understanding of the situation.

This isn't about him not discussing negotiations with the city. It's about the fact that he's purchased land in L.A. at the biggest hotspot for a stadium in the past 50 years, and that as of now he's very likely BUILDING A FUCKING NFL STADIUM THERE. For anyone not to be skeptical of that would be blind and ignorant. People can speculate all they want about what is actually going to happen, but that's IS the information that's there. Now if he's using it for leverage, I understand, but I'm not going to sit held hostage by some asshole fuckhead who is disconnected from every organization he owns. You can say he's some "shrewd businessman" playing his cards, but I could give a fuck less. To me he's just a billionaire using professional sports teams as a hobby. And no, not every owner in any league is like that. In fact it's quite the opposite. They majority have owners that care about the city and the team. I find it hard to believe if Khan got the team that we'd be going through the same process right now.

I've been a Ram fan for 50 years, and while it's nice having them close I'm still a fan wherever they play. I've missed less than 10 games they played at the dome counting preseason games. I sat through every one of the 15-65 home games.

But how did you all not see this coming? The guys I go to games with did.

The Rams did negotiate in good faith, they followed the rules of the lease and went to arbitration and won. It was the people than run the Dome that rejected the arbitration. All they had to do was agree, spend less than a new stadium and the Rams were locked in. But no, they didn't want their Supercrosses and monster truck events etc. put on a hold during the construction. So it's now year to year,
That told the Rams all they needed to know about the support in STL. And that was were he was legally bound.

Peacocks Palace should have been offered as a option then, before the arbitration. Not now.
Why would Kroenke kick in a few hundred million here on something he won't own? While in LA he owns the stadium, controls the revenue streams, has a event venue, retail shopping , condos, apartments and the parking. He'd get paid 365 days instead of ten.

The dog and pony show the other day was more for the Chargers and Raiders than the Rams.

I never cared much for Kroenke even before this. But he is smart and thorough. Everything he does is legal and above board. It maybe legal yes, but not popular.
The rest of the NFL must love him too since they let him skirt the cross ownership rules for so long.

Where's Goodell in all this? He's always got something to say. And Jerra Jones, he can't keep his pie hole shut....Wait Jerra said the Rams were moving to LA about the time of last years draft.

I really don't want t fly to LA a couple times a year to watch them play. I'm freaking old. So I really hope they stay.

Those bylaws aren't worth the paper there printed on because it's just a bunch of billionaire buddies watching each others backs. And do they want to get into a legal fight with one of their own again.

I think Kroenke has the NFL blessing to do this at some level or he knows legally he can. The fix was always in.

But maybe Kronke doesn't move the Rams. Maybe he sells them and the development to a LA investment group and buys the Broncos.

People have seen it coming. That's why the last 5 years there has been literately no other discussion about the Rams in the city expect for their QB and how bad they've sucked. Shit, since they fucking moved here people have been bitching about the lease.

I dunno - I'd look at the gov't officials and pseudo gov't officials more as they first decided to go through arbitration rather than present anything to the Kroenke group then tried to float by something they knew had less than no chance of being acceptable, then sat on it for two years before unveiling this rather generic stadium on an otherwise very cool location.

I really think the Missouri group is trying to play the fans and media against Stan rather than put forth THEIR best effort. I guess I would just like the fans and media to pay more attention to the fact that there is another side that isn't really doing the things that probably would have had this resolved long ago and could/should have been working on this when the Rams organization waved the top tier requirement the first time around.

Instead, we have this rich guy hatred going on even though EVERY NFL owner is a rich guy and pretty much every owner that has demanded a new stadium has apparently done similar maneuvering or even worse.

Both sides are fucking worthless, and everyone here with a brain knows it. Shaw and the rest completely fucked them and they took it because they were so desperate for a team. Now they are paying the repercussions while the fans and city suffers.

 

[RamFan503]

Both sides are freaking worthless, and everyone here with a brain knows it. Shaw and the rest completely fucked them and they took it because they were so desperate for a team. Now they are paying the repercussions while the fans and city suffers.

This I agree with. I was blown away by what the city gave up to get an NFL team in St Louis. And Shaw having inside information knew he could bend them over the wood pile. Meanwhile, Georgia just milked all she could out of the franchise. I really do feel for the St Louis fans in all this. They didn't deserve what they were sold and it DOES continue to this day.

 

[rhinobean]

This I agree with. I was blown away by what the city gave up to get an NFL team in St Louis. And Shaw having inside information knew he could bend them over the wood pile. Meanwhile, Georgia just milked all she could out of the franchise. I really do feel for the St Louis fans in all this. They didn't deserve what they were sold and it DOES continue to this day.

I think you hit the nailon the head! Fans here in STL thought that Kroenke would treat them like fellow Missourians and be upfront about what he wanted from the city once he won arbitration! He knew that the dome remodel didn't make economic sense so why not come out and say that a new stadium would be the way to go! I heard nothing of the kind in the news/sports section!

 

[RamFan503]

I think you hit the nailon the head! Fans here in STL thought that Kroenke would treat them like fellow Missourians and be upfront about what he wanted from the city once he won arbitration! He knew that the dome remodel didn't make economic sense so why not come out and say that a new stadium would be the way to go! I heard nothing of the kind in the news/sports section!

Except that the ball was placed in the CVC's court through arbitration. I frankly thought the Kroenke group showed them the level they were looking for with their proposal before arbitration. They presented a state of the art retrofit of the ED. My thought was that they were setting the expectation level with that proposal. It was never going to be up to Kroenke to go to the voters or go to the Governor, county commissioners, mayor, CVC to give them a proposal on land purchase, tax breaks, gov't funding, etc. He may have been able put something together that was mostly privately funded and owned but it hasn't appeared that there was much interest by the gov't appointees for such a proposal. Maybe there was and that is what they were waiting for but I just didn't get that message.

I also have to wonder what position that would have put Stan in if he presented something and the powers that be rejected it.

 

[rhinobean]

Except that the ball was placed in the CVC's court through arbitration. I frankly thought the Kroenke group showed them the level they were looking for with their proposal before arbitration. They presented a state of the art retrofit of the ED. My thought was that they were setting the expectation level with that proposal. It was never going to be up to Kroenke to go to the voters or go to the Governor, county commissioners, mayor, CVC to give them a proposal on land purchase, tax breaks, gov't funding, etc. He may have been able put something together that was mostly privately funded and owned but it hasn't appeared that there was much interest by the gov't appointees for such a proposal. Maybe there was and that is what they were waiting for but I just didn't get that message.

I also have to wonder what position that would have put Stan in if he presented something and the powers that be rejected it.

Had he presented a stadium deal financed by the city, they reject that, then he's in the clear all the way! Just think he hasn't put it to the city in a way that said I'm leaving if this isn't done! He knew the dome remodel was not feasible going in!

 

[bluecoconuts]

Had he presented a stadium deal financed by the city, they reject that, then he's in the clear all the way! Just think he hasn't put it to the city in a way that said I'm leaving if this isn't done! He knew the dome remodel was not feasible going in!

The problem is once he won arbitration, it wasn't his job to create a stadium deal, it was up to St Louis to get something on the table. After he was told he won, St Louis should have countered his offer since they didn't like the original proposal. What did they do instead? They came out and said "Great, now we can see what he really wants" and then did nothing. He won arbitration back in February of 2013, it should have never taken almost 2 full years to propose a stadium deal. January of 2014 Stan bought the land in Inglewood, and St Louis still didn't do anything. They were basically mulling things over, and then after the elections decided to actually work, likely because they were afraid of voters.

Regardless, it was up to St Louis to hit him with a counter and get the ball rolling. Instead they waited and it look liked Stan got sick of it. Maybe he was going to leave all along and it wouldn't have mattered, but still you can't wait until now. Then to come up with a stadium that doesn't get you anywhere close to what he wants, might not get him into the top 8, and have no real financing plan other than he puts up at least half of it? That's even less feasible than the remodel proposal.

 

[NateTheRam]

View: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152520485610981

 

[rhinobean]

The problem is once he won arbitration, it wasn't his job to create a stadium deal, it was up to St Louis to get something on the table. After he was told he won, St Louis should have countered his offer since they didn't like the original proposal. What did they do instead? They came out and said "Great, now we can see what he really wants" and then did nothing. He won arbitration back in February of 2013, it should have never taken almost 2 full years to propose a stadium deal. January of 2014 Stan bought the land in Inglewood, and St Louis still didn't do anything. They were basically mulling things over, and then after the elections decided to actually work, likely because they were afraid of voters.

Regardless, it was up to St Louis to hit him with a counter and get the ball rolling. Instead they waited and it look liked Stan got sick of it. Maybe he was going to leave all along and it wouldn't have mattered, but still you can't wait until now. Then to come up with a stadium that doesn't get you anywhere close to what he wants, might not get him into the top 8, and have no real financing plan other than he puts up at least half of it? That's even less feasible than the remodel proposal.

Not really talking about the knuckleheads that were suppose to look after the interests of the city, I am saying that the silent one was so silent about his intentions regarding the team and the land he bought in LA that who knew! Looks more like he intended to move by putting forth a remodel that he knew wouldn't happen anyway!

 

[bluecoconuts]

Not really talking about the knuckleheads that were suppose to look after the interests of the city, I am saying that the silent one was so silent about his intentions regarding the team and the land he bought in LA that who knew! Looks more like he intended to move by putting forth a remodel that he knew wouldn't happen anyway!

He could have, but when he bought the land a year ago you'd think it would have at least sent some sort of message. Even now that his group has announced that they're building a stadium, people are acting as if he's going to build it for someone else, which frankly makes no real logical sense, or that the NFL will just block the move. From a fan standpoint it makes sense to think like that, and from a St Louis media standpoint the same (afterall, who will want to read about them if they're going to leave anyway?), but the guys working on the deal need to be doing something if they think they're going to get a deal done. I hope they're doing stuff behind the scenes that will really change things, because so far the response to everything, starting years ago, has been extremely underwhelming.

 

[rhinobean]

He could have, but when he bought the land a year ago you'd think it would have at least sent some sort of message. Even now that his group has announced that they're building a stadium, people are acting as if he's going to build it for someone else, which frankly makes no real logical sense, or that the NFL will just block the move. From a fan standpoint it makes sense to think like that, and from a St Louis media standpoint the same (afterall, who will want to read about them if they're going to leave anyway?), but the guys working on the deal need to be doing something if they think they're going to get a deal done. I hope they're doing stuff behind the scenes that will really change things, because so far the response to everything, starting years ago, has been extremely underwhelming.

Got to agree that the reaction is almost denial on the part of the folks keeping the barn door! Thinking Kroenke's building a stadium with his own money to rent it out so as to benefit another team is head in the sand stuff! He stands to make more than any by-laws penalties would be, for sure! Don't think the rest of the owners don't know this!

 

[ChrisW]

Got to agree that the reaction is almost denial on the part of the folks keeping the barn door! Thinking Kroenke's building a stadium with his own money to rent it out so as to benefit another team is head in the sand stuff! He stands to make more than any by-laws penalties would be, for sure! Don't think the rest of the owners don't know this!

He's technically not building anything, yet.

Also, who's to say he'll own the stadium? Do you know what is endgame is? Everything to this point is speculation. Also, if it was for the Rams, why were they not mentioned in the proposal? Or the logo put anywhere on the drawings like you saw with the STL proposal?

 

[rhinobean]

He's technically not building anything, yet.

Also, who's to say he'll own the stadium? Do you know what is endgame is? Everything to this point is speculation. Also, if it was for the Rams, why were they not mentioned in the proposal? Or the logo put anywhere on the drawings like you saw with the STL proposal?

Never seen a city government that wouldn't get approval for a business venture that cost that government no tax money to build it! They wouldn't approve a Walmart on the piece of land Kroenke bought because it was a Walmart. A stadium/entertainment complex, no problemo! Just looking at what seems obvious to me! I think he's a co-owner when it's more apparent what's going on!

 

[Yamahopper]

I like you and I think you're an excellent poster but I wouldn't want you to negotiate anything for me LOL.

You'd cave way to fast.

This isn't a negotiation.
It's a STL bend over and take it. I would have never gave then a out in the original lease. They had no other real alternatives at the time. And If I did remodel the dome for them Kroenke would have to pony up for another 25 years.
But alas I just help pay for a billionaire to get richer.

 

[beej]

I keep hearing that if SK moves the rams to LA, the team is immediately worth 2-3billion. We'll he's not moving there without building a billion dollar stadium. If he built a billion dollar stadium in stl. Theyes would also be worth a couple billion. Add in the relocation fees and it doesn't really make much sense, to me.

 

[Boffo97]

He's technically not building anything, yet.

Also, who's to say he'll own the stadium? Do you know what is endgame is? Everything to this point is speculation. Also, if it was for the Rams, why were they not mentioned in the proposal? Or the logo put anywhere on the drawings like you saw with the STL proposal?

You know, I actually thought that was kind of weird to see Rams logos in the proposal after the EJD switched over from Rams logos into ugly generic ST LOUIS logos a couple seasons ago...