New: Latest on Kroenke, Rams and NFL in STL

[Boffo97]

Welcome to Shoulderpads Memorial Field!

 

[Corbin]

Welcome to Shoulderpads Memorial Field!

I like training bra field myself with the Blimp focusing on the titty hard on's....

 

[bluecoconuts]

Those are old pictures of the potential farmers field in downtown LA, not the one Stan hinted at.

This is the only picture we have as far as I know, and even then who knows?

Although it looks like one of those covered seat open air stadiums, I do like it. Nice and modern, unique but not over the top.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Really? I'm going to go out on a limb and say this guy has no idea what he is talking about here.

I wonder in all of this - and I don't know as I haven't paid much attention to non-Ram overtures - but how many other owners were directly involved in these processes and how many of them had a selected group handle it on their behalf? It is also interesting that though the Peacock/Blitz group has only been formed for less than three months and they have acknowledged talking to Kroenke's people several times, that somehow it translates to Kroenke not being part of the process. They haven't spoke with Goodell or apparently any of the other NFL owners, yet the NFL is "very involved" in the process?

I just don't know how much good is being done for St Louis to have the owner villainized in this process. In all of this, if the Rams stay in St Louis, it will be because Stan made sure the facility was the best it could be. If he decides to move, then I could fully understand St Louis fans wanting to hate on him.

Stan knows if he puts 200+ mil into the new stadium then all will be forgiven. His current, hopefully temporary, tactics are unerstandibly giving STL fans reason to dislike him.

 

[Username]

Really? I'm going to go out on a limb and say this guy has no idea what he is talking about here.

I wonder in all of this - and I don't know as I haven't paid much attention to non-Ram overtures - but how many other owners were directly involved in these processes and how many of them had a selected group handle it on their behalf? It is also interesting that though the Peacock/Blitz group has only been formed for less than three months and they have acknowledged talking to Kroenke's people several times, that somehow it translates to Kroenke not being part of the process. They haven't spoke with Goodell or apparently any of the other NFL owners, yet the NFL is "very involved" in the process?

I just don't know how much good is being done for St Louis to have the owner villainized in this process. In all of this, if the Rams stay in St Louis, it will be because Stan made sure the facility was the best it could be. If he decides to move, then I could fully understand St Louis fans wanting to hate on him.

What do you expect the reaction to be?

 

[Username]

Stan knows if he puts 200+ mil into the new stadium then all will be forgiven. His current, hopefully temporary, tactics are unerstandibly giving STL fans reason to dislike him.

It's understandable to theorize this is part of a strategy. Until any of it is addressed publicly though, he's lost the fanbase and the city. It's ridiculous to think there would be any other response to this.

 

[LesBaker]

It's understandable to theorize this is part of a strategy. Until any of it is addressed publicly though, he's lost the fanbase and the city. It's ridiculous to think there would be any other response to this.

It's a little too early for the hatred, but I know fans want to hear something from him. It makes no sense for him to say anything right now while the process is unfolding but fans aren't logical and they want assurances. Well that cannot happen during high stakes negotiations like this. It has never happened in any stadium negotiations. It doesn't even really happen in contract negotiations with players.

Fans are often unreasonable and lack any depth of understanding of the situation.

 

[blue4]

I don't disagree, but he has sent his representatives down to speak to them. Just because they haven't met face to face doesn't mean he hasn't discussed things at all. However until this proposal, the ball was in St. Louis's court. The Rams made a proposal, the city turned it down, they went to arbitration and the Rams won. At this point it was up to the city to come up with something else, but they didn't do anything for a very long time.

Even with this proposal, I don't think it comes near enough for Stan to even think about it. There's financing issues (not only among having Stan pay for nearly half of it), issues that he has in terms of owning everything, parking and seating issues, viability for attracting a Super Bowl, the time frame, etc. They didn't cover anything that really sets the stadium apart other than it is new, it looks somewhat bland compared to new stadiums you see now. It's not fair to look to Green Bay or Chicago and say "Well they make it work!" because those stadiums have history behind them, and that is a large reason why they can work. If Soldier field was proposed today the owner would probably balk at it. Lambeau field could even get that same reaction, but they do have 20,000 more seats for the additional revenue, but the stadiums don't really offer much other than history.

I know I sound like I'm an anti St Louis, bring the Rams to LA guy in this thread, but that's really not my intention.

Personally I want the Rams to stay in St Louis, and part of that is because I'm moving to St Louis in a few years so my girlfriend can be closer to her family, and I want the Rams to be there for me to watch, since I don't have the time to do so now if they were to be in LA.

However when I look at things from Stan's perspective, it certainly seems like he wants to leave. He has his demands and goals, and while I liked the stadium at face value, when I really looked at different details, I was a bit discouraged because I just don't see how Stan takes this, even if his goal is to stay in St Louis. If this is the best that St Louis will do then I don't think Stan has any problem convincing the league that he can move.

A lot of things depends on what Stan really wants to do, and how serious he is about LA. At this point it certainly looks like he is very serious, and thus when I look at things I'm looking at it from the idea that Stan is set on leaving and only something that knocks him off his feet will convince him otherwise. I have no faith in the NFL being able to or wanting to force Stan to keep the Rams in St Louis. I heard a decent dumb down yesterday. Stan said "Hey look I'm buying a Ferrari!" and St Louis came back with "How about instead we go halfsies on a Camry.... And I'll own it..... And maybe I wont be able to pay all of my share.". If Stan really wants his Ferrari, then St Louis needs to set their game up significantly.

This offer is great for a different owner (Raiders, Chargers, Jaguars perhaps), but for Stan's demands? Awful. If St Louis is really making a pitch to the NFL so they'll entice another team to move there when Stan packs up, then I think it's a pretty smart move. If they're really trying to keep Stan here, then not so much. All of this assumes that Stan is serious and is very set on his demands being met or close to them. As of the moment that Stan's company announced their building a stadium in LA, I'm inclined to believe he's very serious.

Construction has started on Hollywood Park already, and while they haven't started on the stadium specifically, they are working on the immediate surrounding area, and that's pretty important. A few LA politicians have already informed Stan that they will assist him as much as possible with getting things built and ready for him as well. St Louis cannot afford to play it slow and lowball him, if they are counting on the NFL to help them, I think they're going to be very disappointed.

I don't disagree with you, as I posted before money talks. I just don't see how anyone can claim that the Rams are in a worse situation than Oakland or San Diego. And I do think a large part of the ST Louis strategy involves marketing to another team.

 

[Ballhawk]

On a OT note, what about a half dome? Or something that is the fully covered but partly? Like an enclosure so to speak.

That sounds like the Cowboy's old stadium. With a hole in the roof over the field.
If open air is the way to go I wonder why the Cowboys went with a dome?

 

[mr.stlouis]

It's understandable to theorize this is part of a strategy. Until any of it is addressed publicly though, he's lost the fanbase and the city. It's ridiculous to think there would be any other response to this.

This new stadium proposal is a game chager. STL fans just want to win like any other fan. Winning really does cure all.

I can't speak for all those other fans, though. As for myself, I plan to go to at least 6 Rams games next year, maybe more. I like to think there many many thousands of fans who have similiar plans.

Winning does cure all within fans. Rams put a hot team together and STL will be partying like it's 1999. I know I'll be dancing to that song in the dome with glasses on.

 

[Yamahopper]

I've been a Ram fan for 50 years, and while it's nice having them close I'm still a fan wherever they play. I've missed less than 10 games they played at the dome counting preseason games. I sat through every one of the 15-65 home games.

But how did you all not see this coming? The guys I go to games with did.

The Rams did negotiate in good faith, they followed the rules of the lease and went to arbitration and won. It was the people than run the Dome that rejected the arbitration. All they had to do was agree, spend less than a new stadium and the Rams were locked in. But no, they didn't want their Supercrosses and monster truck events etc. put on a hold during the construction. So it's now year to year,
That told the Rams all they needed to know about the support in STL. And that was were he was legally bound.

Peacocks Palace should have been offered as a option then, before the arbitration. Not now.
Why would Kroenke kick in a few hundred million here on something he won't own? While in LA he owns the stadium, controls the revenue streams, has a event venue, retail shopping , condos, apartments and the parking. He'd get paid 365 days instead of ten.

The dog and pony show the other day was more for the Chargers and Raiders than the Rams.

I never cared much for Kroenke even before this. But he is smart and thorough. Everything he does is legal and above board. It maybe legal yes, but not popular.
The rest of the NFL must love him too since they let him skirt the cross ownership rules for so long.

Where's Goodell in all this? He's always got something to say. And Jerra Jones, he can't keep his pie hole shut....Wait Jerra said the Rams were moving to LA about the time of last years draft.

I really don't want t fly to LA a couple times a year to watch them play. I'm freaking old. So I really hope they stay.

Those bylaws aren't worth the paper there printed on because it's just a bunch of billionaire buddies watching each others backs. And do they want to get into a legal fight with one of their own again.

I think Kroenke has the NFL blessing to do this at some level or he knows legally he can. The fix was always in.

But maybe Kronke doesn't move the Rams. Maybe he sells them and the development to a LA investment group and buys the Broncos.

 

[CGI_Ram]

It's a little too early for the hatred, but I know fans want to hear something from him. It makes no sense for him to say anything right now while the process is unfolding but fans aren't logical and they want assurances. Well that cannot happen during high stakes negotiations like this. It has never happened in any stadium negotiations. It doesn't even really happen in contract negotiations with players.

Fans are often unreasonable and lack any depth of understanding of the situation.

Couldn't have summed things up better, Les.

 

[blue4]

The part I'm most curious about is exactly how much interest there is from other teams to move to St Louis. I think most people agree Stan has the money and power to move wherever he wants. So where does that leave the Chargers or Raiders? That's a very direct competitor for the Chargers.

 

[RamsCardsJazz]

I've been a Ram fan for 50 years, and while it's nice having them close I'm still a fan wherever they play. I've missed less than 10 games they played at the dome counting preseason games. I sat through every one of the 15-65 home games.

But how did you all not see this coming? The guys I go to games with did.

The Rams did negotiate in good faith, they followed the rules of the lease and went to arbitration and won. It was the people than run the Dome that rejected the arbitration. All they had to do was agree, spend less than a new stadium and the Rams were locked in. But no, they didn't want their Supercrosses and monster truck events etc. put on a hold during the construction. So it's now year to year,
That told the Rams all they needed to know about the support in STL. And that was were he was legally bound.

Peacocks Palace should have been offered as a option then, before the arbitration. Not now.
Why would Kroenke kick in a few hundred million here on something he won't own? While in LA he owns the stadium, controls the revenue streams, has a event venue, retail shopping , condos, apartments and the parking. He'd get paid 365 days instead of ten.

The dog and pony show the other day was more for the Chargers and Raiders than the Rams.

I never cared much for Kroenke even before this. But he is smart and thorough. Everything he does is legal and above board. It maybe legal yes, but not popular.
The rest of the NFL must love him too since they let him skirt the cross ownership rules for so long.

Where's Goodell in all this? He's always got something to say. And Jerra Jones, he can't keep his pie hole shut....Wait Jerra said the Rams were moving to LA about the time of last years draft.

I really don't want t fly to LA a couple times a year to watch them play. I'm freaking old. So I really hope they stay.

Those bylaws aren't worth the paper there printed on because it's just a bunch of billionaire buddies watching each others backs. And do they want to get into a legal fight with one of their own again.

I think Kroenke has the NFL blessing to do this at some level or he knows legally he can. The fix was always in.

But maybe Kronke doesn't move the Rams. Maybe he sells them and the development to a LA investment group and buys the Broncos.

Updating the dome would have only "locked" them in for 10 years and after that Kroenke could leave if he wanted to.

 

[LesBaker]

I've been a Ram fan for 50 years, and while it's nice having them close I'm still a fan wherever they play. I've missed less than 10 games they played at the dome counting preseason games. I sat through every one of the 15-65 home games.

But how did you all not see this coming? The guys I go to games with did.

The Rams did negotiate in good faith, they followed the rules of the lease and went to arbitration and won. It was the people than run the Dome that rejected the arbitration. All they had to do was agree, spend less than a new stadium and the Rams were locked in. But no, they didn't want their Supercrosses and monster truck events etc. put on a hold during the construction. So it's now year to year,
That told the Rams all they needed to know about the support in STL. And that was were he was legally bound.

Peacocks Palace should have been offered as a option then, before the arbitration. Not now.
Why would Kroenke kick in a few hundred million here on something he won't own? While in LA he owns the stadium, controls the revenue streams, has a event venue, retail shopping , condos, apartments and the parking. He'd get paid 365 days instead of ten.

The dog and pony show the other day was more for the Chargers and Raiders than the Rams.

I never cared much for Kroenke even before this. But he is smart and thorough. Everything he does is legal and above board. It maybe legal yes, but not popular.
The rest of the NFL must love him too since they let him skirt the cross ownership rules for so long.

Where's Goodell in all this? He's always got something to say. And Jerra Jones, he can't keep his pie hole shut....Wait Jerra said the Rams were moving to LA about the time of last years draft.

I really don't want t fly to LA a couple times a year to watch them play. I'm freaking old. So I really hope they stay.

Those bylaws aren't worth the paper there printed on because it's just a bunch of billionaire buddies watching each others backs. And do they want to get into a legal fight with one of their own again.

I think Kroenke has the NFL blessing to do this at some level or he knows legally he can. The fix was always in.

But maybe Kronke doesn't move the Rams. Maybe he sells them and the development to a LA investment group and buys the Broncos.

I like you and I think you're an excellent poster but I wouldn't want you to negotiate anything for me LOL.

You'd cave way to fast.

 

[blue4]

I've been a Ram fan for 50 years, and while it's nice having them close I'm still a fan wherever they play. I've missed less than 10 games they played at the dome counting preseason games. I sat through every one of the 15-65 home games.

But how did you all not see this coming? The guys I go to games with did.

The Rams did negotiate in good faith, they followed the rules of the lease and went to arbitration and won. It was the people than run the Dome that rejected the arbitration. All they had to do was agree, spend less than a new stadium and the Rams were locked in. But no, they didn't want their Supercrosses and monster truck events etc. put on a hold during the construction. So it's now year to year,
That told the Rams all they needed to know about the support in STL. And that was were he was legally bound.

Peacocks Palace should have been offered as a option then, before the arbitration. Not now.
Why would Kroenke kick in a few hundred million here on something he won't own? While in LA he owns the stadium, controls the revenue streams, has a event venue, retail shopping , condos, apartments and the parking. He'd get paid 365 days instead of ten.

The dog and pony show the other day was more for the Chargers and Raiders than the Rams.

I never cared much for Kroenke even before this. But he is smart and thorough. Everything he does is legal and above board. It maybe legal yes, but not popular.
The rest of the NFL must love him too since they let him skirt the cross ownership rules for so long.

Where's Goodell in all this? He's always got something to say. And Jerra Jones, he can't keep his pie hole shut....Wait Jerra said the Rams were moving to LA about the time of last years draft.

I really don't want t fly to LA a couple times a year to watch them play. I'm freaking old. So I really hope they stay.

Those bylaws aren't worth the paper there printed on because it's just a bunch of billionaire buddies watching each others backs. And do they want to get into a legal fight with one of their own again.

I think Kroenke has the NFL blessing to do this at some level or he knows legally he can. The fix was always in.

But maybe Kronke doesn't move the Rams. Maybe he sells them and the development to a LA investment group and buys the Broncos.

Updating the dome makes no sense. Motocross and monster trucks is where the dome makes it's money. And we'd be going thru this anyway, just later on.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Updating the dome makes no sense. Motocross and monster trucks is where the dome makes it's money. And we'd be going thru this anyway, just later on.

There is great money potential for having both indoor and outdoor stadiums. You mention motorcross, Peacock brought up the MLS, that's big bucks. You are correct.

 

[MTRamsFan]

Shane, another great article. When I saw the LA Times article, my first reaction was Stan was leveraging for a new stadium in St. Louis. He can build a stadium in LA, and allowing another team to relocate. All-the-while, get a state-of-art stadium in St. Louis. The guy is a business man and I see this whole situation of him trying to get the best of both worlds.

 

[Mojo Ram]

As a fan from afar, I'd like to see St Louis go with an outdoor venue. It would be a nice home field advantage against division rivals AZ, SF and to some extent Seattle.
If nothing else there's also been only 3 dome teams that have won a Super Bowl in history(Rams, Indianapolis and New Orleans).

 

[RamFan503]

What do you expect the reaction to be?

I dunno - I'd look at the gov't officials and pseudo gov't officials more as they first decided to go through arbitration rather than present anything to the Kroenke group then tried to float by something they knew had less than no chance of being acceptable, then sat on it for two years before unveiling this rather generic stadium on an otherwise very cool location.

I really think the Missouri group is trying to play the fans and media against Stan rather than put forth THEIR best effort. I guess I would just like the fans and media to pay more attention to the fact that there is another side that isn't really doing the things that probably would have had this resolved long ago and could/should have been working on this when the Rams organization waved the top tier requirement the first time around.

Instead, we have this rich guy hatred going on even though EVERY NFL owner is a rich guy and pretty much every owner that has demanded a new stadium has apparently done similar maneuvering or even worse.