Skeptical of the nay sayers giving Goff credit...they’ll just move that goal line
It's fair to call Goff elite now
- Thread starter LesBaker
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Skeptical of the nay sayers giving Goff credit...they’ll just move that goal line
...and that's cool with me because that's your measurement.
In my measurement of "elite" I need to see more games and game situations where he wills this team to win.
I just don't throw the "elite" tag this soon in a career.
I don't understand why "willing a team to win" requires trailing in the 4th quarter.
He's put games out of reach in the 2nd half, why doesn't that count?
He sure as heck "willed them to win" the New Orleans game IMO, when he stormed back from 35-17 down only to see the defense cough the lead right back up
I thought about this, but didn't bother with the rest of the thread. Sure call him elite all you want. I have no problem with that.
My problem, as a LA sports fan, is that the label of elite doesn't mean a whole lot. I blame Clayton Kershaw. Kershaw is a first ballot hall of famer and elite in almost every broad category except one, playoff performance. So "elite" or whatever regular season performance label is nice and all, just not terribly meaningful.
To me, the label of "big time player" is more important. A big time player makes big time plays in big time games. Just because a player is a big time player doesn't make him elite -- check Robert Horry. Just because a player is elite doesn't make him a big time player -- check Kershaw.
Goff hasn't played in a big time game. No, a wild card game (oooooohhhhhh) isn't a big time game. So, elite? Sure, fine. Big time player, certainly not yet - but with his demeanor and seemingly constant improvement, the signs are there that he can be that.
My problem, as a LA sports fan, is that the label of elite doesn't mean a whole lot. I blame Clayton Kershaw. Kershaw is a first ballot hall of famer and elite in almost every broad category except one, playoff performance. So "elite" or whatever regular season performance label is nice and all, just not terribly meaningful.
To me, the label of "big time player" is more important. A big time player makes big time plays in big time games. Just because a player is a big time player doesn't make him elite -- check Robert Horry. Just because a player is elite doesn't make him a big time player -- check Kershaw.
Goff hasn't played in a big time game. No, a wild card game (oooooohhhhhh) isn't a big time game. So, elite? Sure, fine. Big time player, certainly not yet - but with his demeanor and seemingly constant improvement, the signs are there that he can be that.
I concur. Stats dont really define ' elite.' If that was the case Matt Statford and Stat Ryan would be elite and I'm pretty damned sure all the peeps in this thread labeling Goff elite wouldnt rate those two elite.
Give me some playoff wins/ chamionships and then we'll have this convo.
See this is why I'm trying to avoid these threads - if someone doesn't agree with labels or monikers like "elite" then that suddenly means they are "naysayers" about Goff.
It's just a word
and I'm sure at this point in his career Jared couldn't care less about what specific words of praise are being used to describe him.
If it makes people feel warm and fuzzy inside to use certain words about Goff then go for it. Just don't call people "naysayers" because they don't want to use the same word other people use.
Going to guess about 99% of the people on this board love Goff
P.S - I'm not trying to sound too harsh!
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Do you also want to count the critical pick Goff threw and his 3 missed throws in the last series?
Look DtB...if you think Goff is elite that's fine by me. I grant he's excellent but NOT YET elite.
Brees in '17 vs the Rams was by all Measures worse than Goff vs Saints '18 game.
Brees had the Saints with I think 6 points going into the 4th Quarter before we went to a prevent defense and allowed some stat padding. Does that make Bress not Elite? Brees was completely shut down by us.
One game doesn't effect Elite status, whatever Elite is defined as.
I agree with those pointing out that playing great in big games is probably more important. But even that argument falls apart. You need your Shaq and Kobe's to get you to the playoffs or the big game Horry is irrelevant.
Here is a thought to add to the conversation...
Is Mcvay Elite? 0-1 in the Playoffs and hasn't proven anything yet in big games. As it stands hes a Marty Schottenheimer or Andy Reid. As it stands, Pete Carroll has more claim to Elite or big game then Mcvay. Don't get me wrong, I would rather have Mcvay. But the point is valid.
The Truth is Mcvay and Goff have a lot to prove come playoffs if they want to permanently solidify their status as Elite, Big time, or Great.
And don't forget even the "Goat" would be 4-4 in Super Bowls if Elite Pete calls a handoff to Marshawn Lynch.
Is Joe Montana 4-0 that much better than Jim Kelly 0-4 based on Big Game records? Or did Montana have the better defenses?
I've said it pretty clear I need to see more from Goff before I put him in elite status...and yes, playing well in BIG games are part of it.
Some interesting numbers:
- In 10 starts this year, Goff has 7 games with a passer rating of 108 or higher. He only has 1 start with a passer rating below 88 (Denver).
- Looking at Goff's past 18 starts (10 starts this year + final 8 starts of last year), he has 41 TDs to 9 Ints and a passer rating of 111.4. The Rams are 15-3 in those games.
- In those 18 starts, we've played Seattle three times; Minnesota and New Orleans twice each; and Philly, Tennessee, the Chargers, and Packers once each. Basically, 11 of the 18 games came against legitimate opponents. In those 11 games, Goff has 27 TDs to 6 Ints (per 16 games, that's 39 TDs to 9 Ints).
I wouldn't take any other quarterback over him for the present and future years. I don't know if that's elite or not, but he's my quarterback, and I hope that he stays a Ram for a very long time.
I was pretty skeptic of Golf bc I thought the system was making him look great. Until you see some of the throws he makes. A tiny window spilting 2 defenders for a touch down. You plug 28 other QBs in there and they wouldn’t have the balls to even try the throws he is making.
I wish he wouldn’t look so anxious in the pocket sometimes, but he’s still young.
I wish he wouldn’t look so anxious in the pocket sometimes, but he’s still young.
Sure...but I still need more consistency...over years not games. This is really what I consider Goff's second year because it's obvious after his first year under McVay, Fisher did him no justice.
I do think he got too hyped in that last series against the Saints...every throw was high.
A real elite QB's will to win affects the defense when that QB is on the bench. Elite QBs have telekinesis or ESP or something.
That's why Goff's passes were off target in the saints game. Brees' Will-to-Win Telekinesis overpowered Goff's.
Or Donald's will to win isn't strong enough. Or Suh's. What if Wood's had a greater will to win that too him to the spot that Goff threw too?
What do you mean "only the QB's will to win matters"?
The other wills to win aren't even real? How can you say that?
That's why Goff's passes were off target in the saints game. Brees' Will-to-Win Telekinesis overpowered Goff's.
Or Donald's will to win isn't strong enough. Or Suh's. What if Wood's had a greater will to win that too him to the spot that Goff threw too?
What do you mean "only the QB's will to win matters"?
The other wills to win aren't even real? How can you say that?
Yeah any talking head in the media that refers to him as a system QB is a fuckwit who either doesn't know the game or is too lazy to watch the games.
The great Aaron Rodgers sure looked bad on his chance for a game winning drive. Actually I am just being argumentative. I just wanted to point out the greatest QB couldn't make a game winning drive when he had to and a few here seem to think it is the key to being considered elite. My true feeling about this subject is it is just another BS label the media like to use. I look for consistent good play. I think we can all agree that Goff is pretty consistant and is getting better all the time. As far as the Saints game, it kind of felt like the team breathed a sigh of relief and accomplishment when they came back to tie the game. They celebrated hard at that time. I think it took a little of the fire away that got them back into the game. Next time maybe they learned from this and finish it with a win.