Is Mannion the best QB on the roster right now?

[Dxmissile]

If it helps, I'll give you the clear, detailed reasoning from a "Goff Cultist" as to why Mannion isn't a starting caliber QB. My thoughts on Mannion after watching him throughout college and every snap he's played as a Ram:

• Tall, well-built frame
• Great accuracy and touch on fade routes
• Decisive and accurate in the short passing game
• Good field awareness with regards to knowing where his check-down and outlets are (especially when blitzed)
• Smart and tough kid
• Below average to average arm strength
• Poor accuracy in the intermediate range (hangs his WRs out to dry)
• Lacks aggression; too content to dink and dunk
• Slow feet and deliberate mechanics
• Elongated throwing motion
• Throws off-balance too often
• No ability to improvise or escape pressure; statue in the pocket; stone feet
• Deep ball outside of the fade is very hit and miss; ball tends to hang in the air
• Rattled by the rush; doesn't like being moved off his spot
• Spends too much time on his first read; needs to see the field better (often looks to the check-down if he doesn't like what he sees with his first read)

Mannion reminds me of Nick Foles and Mike Glennon. He has Glennon's mindset (dink and dunk rather than Foles's over-aggressiveness) with Foles's mannerisms and physical attributes (they have the same issue with throwing off-balance). I expect Mannion to stick around for a long time as a backup QB. He's smart. He seems like a good guy in the locker-room. He can manage the game if you need it. He will be able to adapt to a backup role in any scheme.

However, he lacks the physical attributes to be a starting QB imo. Some guys find a way to compensate for that. Mannion just isn't one of them. He just doesn't offer the sort of dynamic play that you need from a guy when he lacks the physical talent. Mannion can manage the game. He can go out there and not lose it for you, but he's not the type that you can trust to go win you games.

Why is Goff better? There are a host of reasons, but I'll keep things relatively short:

• Goff is a much more physically talented passer; he has much better feet/movement and arm strength
• Goff already sees the field better than Mannion and moves more quickly through his reads; he processes things a lot faster on the field
• Goff has better movement and instincts in the pocket
• Goff has much more upside in terms of accuracy; he doesn't have the gaping mechanical flaws that Mannion just can't seem to escape
• Goff has a much quicker release

Simply put, Goff is the more physically talented QB but also possesses better instincts and skill. He's not better than Mannion in every area yet, but I am betting he gets there sooner than later. However, he is currently a better overall QB.

Agree to disagree on his arm strength and his accuracy.

You say he leaves his WRs out to dry you got that from 2 passes in a preseason 1 that was caught another that should have been caught but one was a catch and a penalty on top of that. Every throw isn't going to be on the money. Moreover his arm strength is above average he was throwing darts 20 yards down the field. The throw he threw to Cooper on his back hip to allow him to spin and almost break the tackle, the throw to Reynolds when he dropped it because of the sun.

I think that dunk and dunk is over blown him and Goff has basically done the same thing. I think we see a different version from them both because of the offense, and right now Mannion has shown that he can hit the deep ball.

As far as arm talent goes there isn't much drop off from Mannion and Goff. With Mannion having the edge because he is much more accurate on his deep ball.

I don't think Goff scans the field better then Mannion I think it looks that way because Mannion is more decisive then Goff, a lot of the times Goff don't trust what he sees which leads to bad passes interceptions and sacks, where if Mannion sees a match up he likes he goes for it, now that could be good or bad but so far it has worked out for him.

Goff has better feet and is more mobile and better outside the pocket but inside the pocket I. That bubble Mannion is better and part of the reason is because even though he has a slow release he throws with anticipation and timing better then Goff and that allows him to avoid sacks. Outside the pocket as a qb that's really the only edge I see that he has on Mannion as of right now.

Of course all of this could change with more playing time and more chances for him to get into a rhythm in games. But as for right now that's how I see things.

 

[Dxmissile]

We don't have all the data that would tell us who will be better down the line or weather or not to replace Goff with Mannion. Only time will tell that--maybe halfway through the season or so; so it's a useless and moot opinion that amounts to trolling up the forum.

No opinion is moot that's the point of a discussion forum, it's all about how you have that discussion and keeping it strictly about that discussion. I admit I start a lot of the talk about Mannion vs Goff I'm not doing it to Troll I'm doing it so that the ones that support Goff can tell me why, we all see things very differently so I like to get a better understanding of why they like the QB @jrry32 does a great job of telling me why he supports Goff other then he's the starting qb, whether I agree or not I like hearing his take on the Matter.

 

[Soul Surfer]

if you have people aurging about the #1 vs #2 qb, the team still needs a qb!

Thats not up for debate.

What?

What if it turns out that they're both good enough to start?

(Don't even try to debate me - it's not up for debate )

 

[Kevin61]

Conformity isn't necessary, but there isn't a lot of patience around here for pessimism. This is an optimistic board. There are plenty of other Rams forums on the web if you want the woe is me talk. You can criticize. You can state opinions that aren't the norm (such as Mannion > Goff), but if all you're bringing to the board is negativity, you're likely to get booted eventually.

If that bothers you, as I said, there are plenty of other Rams forums that foster a negative atmosphere. That isn't to say that things never get negative around here. It happens, and they're pretty patient when it's warranted (like on game days during a 4-12 season). But this place tries to keep it to a minimum.



It's your truth. However, it's not my truth. I expect Goff to surprise a lot of people this year. Hopefully, it's you being surprised and not I.

I'm at a loss as to why advocating one Ram QB is better than another can be considered pessimism or negativity.
Whatever makes the team better I'm for. I will happily admit I was wrong if proven as such.

 

[jrry32]

You say he leaves his WRs out to dry you got that from 2 passes in a preseason 1 that was caught another that should have been caught but one was a catch and a penalty on top of that. Every throw isn't going to be on the money. Moreover his arm strength is above average he was throwing darts 20 yards down the field. The throw he threw to Cooper on his back hip to allow him to spin and almost break the tackle, the throw to Reynolds when he dropped it because of the sun.

No, I say that from having watched him for years. But yea, there are easy recent examples of him hanging Cooper out to dry on back-to-back passes and then hanging Reynolds out to dry later in the game.

His arm strength isn't above average. I remember people claiming the same thing with Foles, Glennon, and Osweiler. People misjudge the arm strength of tall QBs because they don't have to arc the ball as much due to their height. Mannion doesn't drive the ball well on tight windows throws down the field.

As far as arm talent goes there isn't much drop off from Mannion and Goff. With Mannion having the edge because he is much more accurate on his deep ball.

There is a massive difference in arm talent between the two. Goff blows Mannion away in that regard.

We don't see eye-to-eye on this at all. But it's been that way for awhile. Hopefully, that will change in the future.

 

[jrry32]

I'm at a loss as to why advocating one Ram QB is better than another can be considered pessimism or negativity.
Whatever makes the team better I'm for. I will happily admit I was wrong if proven as such.

There's a difference between saying, "I prefer Mannion because (reasons)" and saying, "Mannion is better, Goff stinks, and all you Goff apologists need to accept it."

I'm not saying that you said the latter, but I am saying that tone matters when you're criticizing the starting QB, especially on a site of Rams homers.

 

[Rynie]

Jerruh did.
He knew it all along.

For sure. That's why we have 2 playoff wins in 21 years. Haha

 

[Kevin61]

There's a difference between saying, "I prefer Mannion because (reasons)" and saying, "Mannion is better, Goff stinks, and all you Goff apologists need to accept it."

I'm not saying that you said the latter, but I am saying that tone matters when you're criticizing the starting QB, especially on a site of Rams homers.

Well since I never said the latter, why use it as an example?

I've never used such course language describing Goff, it's not my style. I just can't wrap my head around why advocating another QB over the starter is so disruptive of the peace. I love the team more than any player. Goff is a player, not the team.

Opinions can be contentious, yet civil. Deeming differing opinions as inherently negative is just an easy substitute for genuine and thoughtful discourse.

 

[Merlin]

Oh man. I held off in reading this thread and for good reason. Then I go and open it for no good reason right before I was supposed to get to bed. WTF is wrong with me???

Anyway, here's a reminder to "some" of you: both QBs are Rams players. Both might end up being good enough to carve out careers of whatever quality in this league. Why fight and bicker about it? We're about to see something closely resembling an answer here this season.

If Goff falters, Mannion will come in. That's not a newsflash or some secret fans came up with. It's how the depth chart works. And here's a best case scenario: Mannion kills it tomorrow night, Goff has a great season. It's actually possible things happen that way for us! Who knows how any of this is going to shake out?

Oh and most importantly Dallas can suck it. Romo probably weighs 500lbs already.

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

No opinion is moot that's the point of a discussion forum

Would an opinion about whether 2+2=4 be valuable? Mannion isn't going to replace Goff before we even get the data that would inform that decision. I think McVay is the type who will have a pretty good handle on that as things unfold.

 

[nighttrain]

McVay has made, named, Goff the starting QB. That has helped me form my opinion of who is best suited to start for the Rams this season. I'm sure McVay is the best judge of talent, his job depends on it...

train

 

[JackDRams]

View: https://twitter.com/essexram_/status/903252265888305153

 

[Dxmissile]

McVay was hired to help Goff we all know that, that's why Goff is still the starter it doesn't matter what they do in preseason the Goff experiment for McVay starts against the Colts and we will just see what happens next, make no mistake though that once the season start and Goff is still Goff McVay will pull the plug

 

[Dxmissile]

View: https://twitter.com/essexram_/status/903252265888305153

Tweets like that I don't care about 5 good passes lol. Even his incompletions to Reynolds on those deep routes was good passes they stayed in bounds and gave him a chance to run under it and catch it. That's a prime example of what I mean by people bringing Mannion down to boost up Goff profile

 

[JackDRams]

Tweets like that I don't care about 5 good passes lol. Even his incompletions to Reynolds on those deep routes was good passes they stayed in bounds and gave him a chance to run under it and catch it. That's a prime example of what I mean by people bringing Mannion down to boost up Goff profile

He diagnosed every pass and tweeted about every single one, if you want to check it out. Way too many fuckin tweets to post myself. I didn't read them all, but the few I saw, the ones were he left players out to dry, or the checkdowns, he stated weren't good plays. Those are basically just opinion plays. Some think checkdowns are good, some think they're not.

 

[nighttrain]

Check downs should only be used as last resort
train

 

[Dxmissile]

Check downs should only be used as last resort
train

So you know how many passes Mannion threw for over 2o yards in that game. And I'm not talking a 4 yards pass and it goes for 20.?

 

[Dxmissile]

He diagnosed every pass and tweeted about every single one, if you want to check it out. Way too many freakin tweets to post myself. I didn't read them all, but the few I saw, the ones were he left players out to dry, or the checkdowns, he stated weren't good plays. Those are basically just opinion plays. Some think checkdowns are good, some think they're not.

It's easy to sit back with some stills and say the throw should be like this or like that. And hanging receivers out to dry is a myth. Did the ball get caught what was the result of the catch, to me that's nitpicking trying to find something wrong. To me a bad throw is when you got a guy wide open and the ball makes them slow down or causes them not to get yac. Sometimes the ball has to be placed in a different spot, and if you're a receiver and you're scared to get hit then don't play that position.

 

[Merlin]

McVay was hired to help Goff we all know that, that's why Goff is still the starter it doesn't matter what they do in preseason the Goff experiment for McVay starts against the Colts and we will just see what happens next, make no mistake though that once the season start and Goff is still Goff McVay will pull the plug

Few things to consider here DX.

First I don't think they hired McVay to help Goff. I believe they hired McVay because he blew their minds with his energy and offensive knowledge, not to mention the fact he was bringing a hall of fame DC with him. Advantage of McVay is that IF their kid QB doesn't develop into what they hoped they have the right guy in place to develop the next QB up.

Secondly, if for whatever reason McVay felt that Goff couldn't do the job, we'd see him taking a LOT more snaps in preseason. And when you go back to the Raider game, that is what happened, where McVay had him out there much longer than he had projected, probably until he saw him do everything he wanted to see. Remember, McVay did not draft the kid, and he is not really tied to him in any way. So you can bet that Goff would be out there working on things, and injury risk would not be a big concern since if the kid's not ready him missing games isn't the end of the world. In that situation it's win/win for McVay to play him more. But McVay's been very careful with him, so I think he at least feels like Goff can be the guy in this offense at this point in time.

Lastly to your point about how if Goff doesn't play well he'll be pulled, well, yeah, that's how the depth chart works. I agree that IF Goff doesn't play well he is going to get a very quick hook from McVay. As he should. But that is not any sort of revelation, really. Again, it's football and how the depth chart works.

 

[Dxmissile]

Lol the guy don't have any stills no video evidence, every time he did say Mannion made a nice throw, he had to throw in, but if the pass was like this it would have been more yards, then he talking about receivers being open when the Raiders game the receivers was running wild. He said Reynolds got open between 4 receivers and Mannion sailed the ball that ball hit Reynolds dead in BOTH hands he just dropped it the hit wasn't hard. He act like receivers aren't supposed to Jump. If that pass went to Watkins from Goff he would be praising the pass and saying they just got to work out their timing. It's complete bs

If you wanna be whatever he's trying to do it's obvious that's his bias to Goff