Hunting/Survival/Shooting/Prepping

[Zaphod]

Man, I do love hunting and camping. And I’m kind of freak with hand guns, been practicing at 50-75 yards (most people don’t know how difficult that is) when the opportunity presents, and I want to get into competition shooting just for fun, and honestly as an opportunity to safely practice with quick draw and “rapid” fire accuracy. Going to have a smith red dot my R51 just to see if I can make that super accurate to 50 yards, and just make that my thing in competitions.

Been doing the bicycle camping thing on and off. I really like that because it forces you to limit your gear and get close to nature. Been training for a ride across Missouri on the Katy trail, but it’s with some friends and and they want to sleep in hotels, but next year I think I go it alone and camp for that challenge if my wife lets me.

Best thing about hunting? Every time I get out there the air is better and I end up feeling better, no matter how cold, I want to be in my stand all day. I love the silence, the loud ass squirrels, every sound that nature makes. I want to identify it, Don’t hunt hog, just deer with a .308. Red dot , there’s no shot I can take past 100 yards where we hunt anyway. The trees are too thick. Makes it so much fun to identify everything . And I’m not one of those guys that gets buck fever, as I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I accidentally shot a person, so it’s more about being out there, having fun and playing it safe for me.

 

[CeeZar]

I want to get into competition shooting just for fun, and honestly as an opportunity to safely practice with quick draw and “rapid” fire accuracy.

Do you happen to be in the St. Louis area?

 

[Zaphod]

Do you happen to be in the St. Louis area?

I am.

 

[Mister Sin]

I don’t prep much but do all the rest including loading my own rounds so I have specific, virtually identical rounds on every shot for every game animal I hunt. There is a great comfort level when you know your loads don’t deviate. To me it’s a great part of responsible hunting when you do all you can to make sure everything is right for a clean, effective, one shot kill.

I’m here with @RamFan503 I have so many molds for whatever rounds. Plenty of books for specific load size for task.

 

[Mister Sin]

I do the hunting...shooting/loading and we have a big garden and a pond to fish out of. Water access, to me, is key. You can always get a fish or eel or a bucket of crawdads lol. We are looking to get lightly into some livestock. Chickens and a pig/cow or two. We already have horses...they are gun trained....that is very important. If they aren’t and you shoot off their backs or even near them, they may freak out.

If you’re near St.Louis...I’m out in Franklin County down past Union. We are able to do quite a bit with just 10 acres and river access.

Good luck. I would love to hear how it goes.

 

[CeeZar]

I am.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1R_sHTtitc


Is this what you are looking for? If so, I shoot 2 matches per month in the St. Louis area and can help get you started. DM me if you are interested.

 

[Mackeyser]

I've seen tons of vids on this and I'm excited for those that like it, but I'm not trying to be John Wick, so it's probably the last thing on my mind.

I realized that in a truly SHTF situation, you need a few things:

1) Other people. Lone survival is almost impossible for any length of time. Injury is going to happen and if you get an injury you can't reach or can't deal with yourself or fall, it could be game over and in many instances, it'd be a slow, ugly painful way to go.

2) Skills. Actual wilderness first aid skills. Actual bushcraft skills. Actual gardening skills. Actual butchering skills. Actual cooking skills (it's funny to me how many hunters can't even fry up what they kill, let alone make it taste good).

3) Tools. That Silky Big Boy 360mm curved folding saw is just as important a tool than any gun, maybe moreso depending on the area. I see tons of preppers who ONLY talk about guns when bushcraft and gardening are generally regarded by very experienced folks as far more important than sniper skills. Can't make a shot if you're dead of hypothermia.

4) Multiple plans. That bug out plan won't work if whatever happens happens fast and they close the roads, institute martial law and/or insist people stay in their homes. I mean, I'm in FL and if my plan is to get to MN, then I couldn't even walking as there's no way to get there that doesn't involve crossing a major river. As in...none.

That bug in plan won't work if you HAVE TO evacuate do to the nature of the disaster.

I've resigned that to be truly prepared not only requires a group with multiple redundancies, but also several carts. Ammo is heavy and in a real SHTF scenario, you'll want plenty for yourself and it'll be stupid valuable for trading (as will good seeds).

Some tools are heavy. A hand drill with a quality brace and big bit (like 1" or more) adds weight, but it's a fabulous tool as it allows you to turn a nice sized stump into a rocket stove that will work even in moderate rain. Rocket stoves that are dug using the ground can help disguise one's location, but they don't work if it gets too wet. Also, some precious staples would be nice. Instant coffee isn't heavy, but takes up a fair bit of space.

Water is heavy. Not having to rely on the safety of each new water source is important. Rice is calorie dense, but heavy. You start with rice as it can be kept for a very long time. Not so with potatoes, although potatoes are fantastic for subsistence farming if you've got dry enough soil (too wet and they'll grow mold).

Also, if one is in the northern climes, it might make more sense to find a remote spot and put everyone in a big canvas tent with an efficient wood stove. That also is significantly better for your gear. Showers and clothes washing are going to be a rare, but important thing. You can't just rinse and dry clothes. The bacteria won't be killed and you'll be looking at some severe crotch rot... which, let's be brutally honest, won't make that hike with a big backpack and/or cart much fun. There's a reason why undergarments going back into antiquity weren't tight to the skin... In the frozen areas, one can simply rinse, dry and freeze the clothes, but that's awful hard on the fibers.

The more you can maintain your inner layers, the better it all goes. You'll want several really long ropes and tons of practice in knot tying and in proper rope storage and maintenance as well as fashioning winches and knowing how to properly hang meat (pro tip: do not hang fresh kill meat right near your campsite.)

Also. strange as it may seem, a bullhorn or some other way to magnify your voice. The single greatest danger after Mother Nature will be other people that are likely in desperate circumstances. Trying to engage in barter will literally be a life and death situation.

Basically, the idea of the lone person or pair of people with smallish backpacks, a gun and a knife is fine for the short term, but unless you've been raised in an area where foraging is safe and possible, is temperate most of the year and are an expert in the plethora of survival skills, that's just not feasible. Which brings us back to the cart. Yeah, there's a reason folks going back to early roman times and earlier used carts. People need a lot of crap to survive.

Sorry for the essay. This subject fascinates me. I could go on and on... which is why I started this thread in the first place...LOL.

 

[oldnotdead]

As I mentioned before I'm not a hunter and never have been. But I'm not stupid or naive either. A good survival level knife is always part of any hiking kit. I also carried a pistol I inherited from my Dad. Both were mine before the service and were part of my kit during my service. Even as a Corpsman, I was armed with my knife and pistol at all times.

My knife is a Gerber StrongArm, black with a blade slightly under 5" making it CA legal. I love it because it has a multi-positional sheath with a modular design. My pistol as I said I inherited it from my Dad so it has history. It's a Browning High power he bought while he was in the Army stationed at Ft Ord, in 1939. He cleaned up all the issues like heavy trigger pull before the war. He carried it through his entire combat service in WWII. I also have his original issue M1 carbine, but it's too big to carry and not what you want in the field. Since I generally hiked alone or with my girlfriend du jour I knew it was prudent to be armed.

My Dad wasn't a hunter either but he loved to shoot so we would go into the hills and spend a day plinking so when he passed I got his guns as well. I told my son that gun ownership was his choice but I wanted him to have the option so he needed to learn gun safety and how to use them. So I carried on the father / son gun range time and now he's a far better shot than I am. His girlfriend and her father are big fans of trap and skeet shooting so they go twice a month. Her father hunts and my son went with him once and decided it wasn't for him.

The field craft I learned on my hikes, saved my life during the war. It is something I passed on to my son as well. He's not the same avid bare bones hiker I was, but he and his girlfriend go camping often and he does use some of the things I taught him.

You need not be a prepper but in the world today with natural disasters so prevalent, a minimum level of basic survival knowledge is certainly not a bad thing. They both have made plans including simple contingencies and where to meet etc. They also have a basic knap sack kit in their cars.

Now that I'm retired and have the time, it's fun and amazing how much food I grow in containers on my balcony. It's fun, certainly it's economical and I'm certainly not going to starve in an emergency. I can live for several weeks on the water and container crops I have.

 

[CeeZar]

Mac. In a true SHTF situation (which means different things to different people), I don't get why you would try to get from Florida to Minnesota.

First off, good luck getting there. You'll likely end up dead on the side of the road from someone wanting your supplies or gas.

Second, do you have a place up there already? If not, you think you are going to be welcome? Do you expect to find a remote spot in the wilderness somewhere? Even if you can manage that, it may be home for a while, but will end up being an isolated crime scene sooner or later.

Third, why even think about going somewhere with bitter cold winters and a short growing season? You're far more likely to die of cold than heat. You're better of somewhere in the south where you can grow food all year long. The deer population, along with the dogs and the cats, will disappear pretty damn quick.

 

[CeeZar]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uASQgLwaIs

 

[oldnotdead]

Ceezar makes some very good points. I live in a house that has 3 floors about a 1/4 mile from the ocean on a hillside. Each floor is a separate apartment. The retired Mexican couple live on the top floor and rent out the other 2 apartments for their income. I don't know if any of you have been to Mexico, but I live in a community a few miles south of the Rosarito Hotel. The homes aren't packed together like a barrio, but more spaced as American's are used to. There is a middle aged man and his wife both Americans in the third apartment.

We have all agreed that if anything goes wrong we stay in place together as long as the building is structurally safe. There is safety in numbers. American's aren't allowed to have guns but Mexicans can have a rifle. The old man has a beautiful Henry side-gate lever action 30-30. There is no water system in this part of Mexico so there is a huge tank on the roof holding hundreds of gallons that is topped off every week. Since blackouts are common we all have candles or lanterns.

Between the 6 of us we are pretty well set to simply stay in place and wait it out. All the homes here are made of cement like bunkers LOL . So no one is shooting or cutting through walls. I think people need to simply understand basic survival techniques, and keep certain necessities at home and a go pack in their car. Have a basic plan of action so that you never have to waste time and energy trying to figure out your course of action at the moment under stress. We learned in the military that you train as you fight and fight as you train. That's all I'm saying. If you are prepared mentally and with necessities kept at hand you will be fine. You will simply react correctly to the situation at hand.

Just remember if you have to move in a natural disaster, that all aid is going to come in by aircraft. So if you have to move, then I suggest moving to the nearest airfield. That is where help will come in first. The Bahamas is a perfect example of that.

 

[bluecoconuts]

If you want supplies just set up your sniper hide overlooking the local gun range or store. It'll be a target rich environment of unprepared people collecting all the supplies for you to take.

 

[1maGoh]

If you want supplies just set up your sniper hide overlooking the local gun range or store. It'll be a target rich environment of unprepared people collecting all the supplies for you to take.

There's two kinds of people in the world...

 

[Mackeyser]

Mac. In a true SHTF situation (which means different things to different people), I don't get why you would try to get from Florida to Minnesota.

First off, good luck getting there. You'll likely end up dead on the side of the road from someone wanting your supplies or gas.

Second, do you have a place up there already? If not, you think you are going to be welcome? Do you expect to find a remote spot in the wilderness somewhere? Even if you can manage that, it may be home for a while, but will end up being an isolated crime scene sooner or later.

Third, why even think about going somewhere with bitter cold winters and a short growing season? You're far more likely to die of cold than heat. You're better of somewhere in the south where you can grow food all year long. The deer population, along with the dogs and the cats, will disappear pretty damn quick.

Okay, I'm gonna address this and in doing so will make some controversial (to some, not me) points. Hopefully, folks won't get hung up on those.... hopefully...

So here goes.

Wait. Lemme preface this for those that don't know me. I'm pretty good at running simulations in my head. I call it Life Physics, but by using a few suppositions like "everyone acts in their perceived best interest" and a few others, I am able to model what will happen...in my head. It's weird, but I'm rarely wrong. This doesn't work for singular events like sports as much ( it does, but there can be too much randomness), but the longer term, the better. I'm not asserting that I'm unique in this regard, just stating where I'm coming from. Short term examples of prediction: I predicted Douglas would beat Tyson in Tokyo. Longer term examples: I predicted the housing crash of 2008... in late 2005. I've predicted other things that aren't within the scope of this venue (one can DM me for that stuff), but yeah. Based on what I ended up doing for a living and my autistic son, I'm probably on the spectrum (almost certain my dad is high functioning autistic as well as my eldest son), so, yeah. I do it all in my head. So yeah, that's where I'm coming from. Oh, and a ton of research. I have a lot of time on my hands and I read stuff on everything... and I do mean everything...

To be clear, in the worst SHTF situation, there is literally no hope. Why? Radiation. It won't take long for the radiation from all of the nuclear power plants in the world to make the planet unliveable (hahaha, spell correct kept changing that to unloveable...). So, by definition, we're talking about lesser degrees of SHTF.

Why Minnesota? We plan to move there...eventually, so much of this is predicated on us already being there. If SHTF happens before then... we're sunk.

Several reasons for Minny. These are not remotely all of them.

1) With Climate Catastrophe, Minny is warming and while there will be occasional very cold winters, most will be relatively temperate like they've been for the last 2 decades. Moreover, the water will be there. The Midwest is running out of water at a staggering rate as they deplete the Oglala aquifer. CA is running out of water so fast that the central valley in CA has sunk as much as 6' in the last few decades as they deplete their ground water. Water will be the biggest deal and both the growing seasons will extend as well as wildlife will still be there in the north. Nowhere will be perfect, but the northern states will fare better. As for FL, gulf states and coastal GA, SC and NC, I think we're going to dodge any major hurricanes for a few years and then get absolutely pummeled by multiple massive ones with several areas getting multiple hits during the same season. Not wanting to be here for that.

2) Mosquitoes. Currently, not an issue, but in prolonged SHTF, there won't be mosquito control, so expect outbreaks of cholera, encephalitis, Zika, West Nile, chikungunya fever, dengue fever, malaria, yellow fever, and Rift Valley fever. They are all a thing in FL, but controlled with modern medicine. SHTF? Yeah, mosquitoes are going to cause a massive issue.

3) If you track where gun owners live, theres a massive concentration in the south. Combine gun density with desperation and it's gonna be Mad Max down here. So the choice would be to join a marauding band, be a small group of highly mobile scavengers or build a compound away from folks. Also, while the cold is an issue, the heat is also an issue. Folks will require substantially more potable water which will still be in short supply as there won't likely be large catchment systems and just catching rain in old milk jugs with funnels won't be practical in the long run. Plus, water is heavy, so if you're on the move, you likely aren't carrying more than a few days worth of water at best. That's a problem.

4) Do you know what the 2nd biggest cause of auto death is in Montana? Dear. Yeah, so until the predator population like coyote, wolf, bear and mountain lion makes a comeback and that will literally take at least a decade as they are so depleted, the dear, elk, moose and others are overpopulated at this point. I'm not worried about animals in Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, Montana and Minnesota. Moreover, without control in the South, there will be a big issue with agriculture due to wild boar. They grow super rapidly and decimate crops. One can eat them, but their waste gets everywhere and can pollute water sources in no time flat.

So, yeah.

The plan is to eventually get to Minny, build a compound of sorts which can be fully off grid with water catchment/processing, power, greenhouse and areas to grow food as well as butchering/meat storage. House, outbuilding for an RV and other vehicles and then w/e else makes sense. I'm under no illusion that in the case of anything beyond a slowly developing SHTF that anyone in the South is going anywhere as all the bridges will be closed.

Now, if I won stupid big lottery money, we'd probably just buy Greg Norman's 2000 acre spot in Colorado as they already have most of that (I mean, it's up for $50M not including staff or taxes, but yeah), It's defensible, has some of the best hunting in North America and has plenty of clean water. It also has a 1500yd shooting range. Which is crazy... It's also remote enough that once the gas reserves dwindle, not many people would even be able to get out there.

Part of the attraction of an area with a shorter growing season and winter is that you have nature as a defense if you're prepared. I wouldn't suggest going north if all you have are a few supplies packed into a minivan.

I dunno. The older I get... and with how due to my health situation, I don't really see all that many people as it is, I'd be good with being remote as long as before SHTF, I had good internet and I'd stockpile DVDs and books out the wazoo.

 

[coconut]

Okay, I'm gonna address this and in doing so will make some controversial (to some, not me) points. Hopefully, folks won't get hung up on those.... hopefully...

So here goes.

Wait. Lemme preface this for those that don't know me. I'm pretty good at running simulations in my head. I call it Life Physics, but by using a few suppositions like "everyone acts in their perceived best interest" and a few others, I am able to model what will happen...in my head. It's weird, but I'm rarely wrong. This doesn't work for singular events like sports as much ( it does, but there can be too much randomness), but the longer term, the better. I'm not asserting that I'm unique in this regard, just stating where I'm coming from. Short term examples of prediction: I predicted Douglas would beat Tyson in Tokyo. Longer term examples: I predicted the housing crash of 2008... in late 2005. I've predicted other things that aren't within the scope of this venue (one can DM me for that stuff), but yeah. Based on what I ended up doing for a living and my autistic son, I'm probably on the spectrum (almost certain my dad is high functioning autistic as well as my eldest son), so, yeah. I do it all in my head. So yeah, that's where I'm coming from. Oh, and a ton of research. I have a lot of time on my hands and I read stuff on everything... and I do mean everything...

To be clear, in the worst SHTF situation, there is literally no hope. Why? Radiation. It won't take long for the radiation from all of the nuclear power plants in the world to make the planet unliveable (hahaha, spell correct kept changing that to unloveable...). So, by definition, we're talking about lesser degrees of SHTF.

Why Minnesota? We plan to move there...eventually, so much of this is predicated on us already being there. If SHTF happens before then... we're sunk.

Several reasons for Minny. These are not remotely all of them.

1) With Climate Catastrophe, Minny is warming and while there will be occasional very cold winters, most will be relatively temperate like they've been for the last 2 decades. Moreover, the water will be there. The Midwest is running out of water at a staggering rate as they deplete the Oglala aquifer. CA is running out of water so fast that the central valley in CA has sunk as much as 6' in the last few decades as they deplete their ground water. Water will be the biggest deal and both the growing seasons will extend as well as wildlife will still be there in the north. Nowhere will be perfect, but the northern states will fare better. As for FL, gulf states and coastal GA, SC and NC, I think we're going to dodge any major hurricanes for a few years and then get absolutely pummeled by multiple massive ones with several areas getting multiple hits during the same season. Not wanting to be here for that.

2) Mosquitoes. Currently, not an issue, but in prolonged SHTF, there won't be mosquito control, so expect outbreaks of cholera, encephalitis, Zika, West Nile, chikungunya fever, dengue fever, malaria, yellow fever, and Rift Valley fever. They are all a thing in FL, but controlled with modern medicine. SHTF? Yeah, mosquitoes are going to cause a massive issue.

3) If you track where gun owners live, theres a massive concentration in the south. Combine gun density with desperation and it's gonna be Mad Max down here. So the choice would be to join a marauding band, be a small group of highly mobile scavengers or build a compound away from folks. Also, while the cold is an issue, the heat is also an issue. Folks will require substantially more potable water which will still be in short supply as there won't likely be large catchment systems and just catching rain in old milk jugs with funnels won't be practical in the long run. Plus, water is heavy, so if you're on the move, you likely aren't carrying more than a few days worth of water at best. That's a problem.

4) Do you know what the 2nd biggest cause of auto death is in Montana? Dear. Yeah, so until the predator population like coyote, wolf, bear and mountain lion makes a comeback and that will literally take at least a decade as they are so depleted, the dear, elk, moose and others are overpopulated at this point. I'm not worried about animals in Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, Montana and Minnesota. Moreover, without control in the South, there will be a big issue with agriculture due to wild boar. They grow super rapidly and decimate crops. One can eat them, but their waste gets everywhere and can pollute water sources in no time flat.

So, yeah.

The plan is to eventually get to Minny, build a compound of sorts which can be fully off grid with water catchment/processing, power, greenhouse and areas to grow food as well as butchering/meat storage. House, outbuilding for an RV and other vehicles and then w/e else makes sense. I'm under no illusion that in the case of anything beyond a slowly developing SHTF that anyone in the South is going anywhere as all the bridges will be closed.

Now, if I won stupid big lottery money, we'd probably just buy Greg Norman's 2000 acre spot in Colorado as they already have most of that (I mean, it's up for $50M not including staff or taxes, but yeah), It's defensible, has some of the best hunting in North America and has plenty of clean water. It also has a 1500yd shooting range. Which is crazy... It's also remote enough that once the gas reserves dwindle, not many people would even be able to get out there.

Part of the attraction of an area with a shorter growing season and winter is that you have nature as a defense if you're prepared. I wouldn't suggest going north if all you have are a few supplies packed into a minivan.

I dunno. The older I get... and with how due to my health situation, I don't really see all that many people as it is, I'd be good with being remote as long as before SHTF, I had good internet and I'd stockpile DVDs and books out the wazoo.

So many points to make but will limit to some of what you addressed.

MN is warming? OK I don't believe it but even if true how long do you expect to live? MN will remain extremely cold for the rest of your life and that of many generations of your kin thereafter.

The midwest is not running out of water. Current drought map shows this well. https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu

I don't understand your rationale for mentioning the Ogallala in the context of your post. The Ogallala aquifer is on the far western edge of the midwest and isn't in MN. The population reliant upon it for potable water is small, 2.3 million in 1990 and many counties in the northern half of the aquifer have generally been experiencing population decline.

The greatest problem with the aquifer is in the extreme southern part.

About mosquitos I agree they are a huge problem for human health. I also know they are epic in MN and across the upper midwest due to the many lakes in the region. Granted the season isn't year round as in FL but its bad during the time of year you will be more likely to be outside.

Gun ownership is high in all rural areas. Don't know why you single out the South. As for wild boar, bring it on. They are very tasty. They are already relegated to the roughest terrain where there isn't agriculture because they are so tasty.

I was going to post comparison graphs of year round temperature for Minneapolis and Tampa from weatherspark.com but couldn't post them here. https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/...-the-Average-Weather-in-Minneapolis-and-Tampa

I suggest you look at the comparison from the standpoint of heating a home. I heat with wood and my climate in East TN is much milder than anywhere in MN. I benefit from a chainsaw and increasingly every year from a wood splitter. With zone heating (and a liberal zone heating at that) I might go through 2 cords. My house has good southern exposure for heat gain during the day when the sun is out and the house is well insulated. Plus the wood I use is extremely plentiful and excellent for heating. The best oaks and hickories predominate. That is not the case in MN. https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/rb/rb_nrs12.pdf
Bottom line is if I'm left to put up wood by not having a chainsaw, splitter and truck then I'm in a world of more work that will take up an incredible amount of time and effort throughout the year. Faced with that I would move to Tampa.

 

[CeeZar]

All work and no play makes Mac a dull boy.

The most fundamental resources is a SHTF situation that disrupts transportation is food (calories) and water. Potable water can be managed with some planning. If you plan to move anywhere with SHTF in mind, find some property with a spring. Even a very small one will do.

Calories are another issue entirely. You'll be burning a lot of calories just to keep from freezing in the north during winter. Chopping wood is hard work. If you expect to hunt for food, you better know how to process it for storage.

Probably next on the list is security. There will be millions of desperate people more than willing to kill you for your stuff. It's good to have someone like coconut with a specialized skill set

 

[coconut]

It's good to have someone like coconut with a specialized skill set

That pic is me in MN.

 

[1maGoh]

That pic is me in MN.

That pic is everyone in MN.

 

[Mackeyser]

Okay, update.

Had a lot of time with this latest migraine to do research (not including the latest gun rabbit hole I'll go into later).

Been refocusing on high country, either SW Colorado (near Wolf Creek), NW Colorado, western Wyoming or SW Montana. Basically Rocky Mountain ranches. There are a couple of "lottery properties" up there, my fave is a 10k acre ranch nestled into a valley in MT with crazy views, over 750m of elevation change, arable land as well as tons of game, deer, mule deer, elk, black bear and others. These places also have senior water rights, flowing water on the property, mineral rights and generally no easements. The stuff I'm looking at also tends to be contiguous property. I wouldn't get a place with two deeded parcels separated by federal/state lands. That's asking for trouble, imho. Also, the taxes are stupid low. I've looked at a bunch of 10k acre properties (all out of my price range, but the looking is fun) and the highest property taxes I saw was 9k a year. Which is insane for that much productive land.

Was rethinking MN and the mosquito issue was one problem for me. The cold was another, but honestly, the biggest issue was water. I would prefer flowing water and fewer to no mosquitoes. Also, looking at property in MN, it's almost all flat farmland or the parcels are way too small. There are TONS of 200-2k acre properties that could be what I'd want out west, but literally nothing that big in Minny that's not clearly in eyesight of a highway with no cover. Looked at a few "hunting plots" and they're barely 20 acres.

Out west is just better for larger plots.

Also, it's less cold for the most part and the whole clan (other than my youngest) love the mountains and "snow cold" versus "arctic cold". I worry a bit about drought and forest fires...that's more of an issue in southwest Colorado, but every area is gonna have something and if I can get a place, one of the first things I'll get is a water catchment system. They aren't super expensive (compared to the alternative) and if you build it and a geothermal heating system at the time of the house, you're way ahead in a grid down scenario. I honestly love both southwest CO and SW Montana and the wife and I have been to CO and loved it. The properties in SW Montana, tho...holy cow... they are just BEYOND beautiful.

As for isolation, we're both home bodies and as long as there's civilization relatively close, we're good. I already don't leave my property for months at a time even if I go outside. We already joke that we're astronauts in that we can hole up for extended periods as a family and we get along great. And we already have to drive 30+ minutes to bowling, 45+ minutes to BJs or Sams (although a new Costco opened pretty close and I need to check that one out) and as former Angelenos, driving isn't an issue for us... unless the roads are windy and then the wife gets car sick... I'll have to lend her my seasickness bands and see if they help when we get a chance to visit the areas in question.

Still love the people in Minny, but yeah, looking more out west.

For the rest of this discussion the Oglala is a distraction and that's my bad. It is being depleted, but who knows what farming looks like in a prolonged grid down scenario? Is it Amish with hand pumped water? I dunno.

As for skills, yeah, I'm going to start a garden and I want to learn how to fully process game including making leather using only the animal. People forget that woven cloth will quickly wear out and no one can stock enough underwear. Women will have a much worse time as things go on because, again, you can only stock so many feminine products and then....they're gone.

So, that gun rabbit hole. @bluecoconuts I was looking for an all-purpose hunting/self-defense gun with range capabilities and I found this. It ain't cheap, but that's not really a concern when you're dreaming, is it?

It's the Wilson Combat Super Sniper 6.5 Creedmoor. It's purdy...

It can come in the 20", 22" or 24" threaded fluted barrel. I'd go with the 24" barrel, a Thunder Beast Ultra 9 suppressor so that I could hunt without hearing protection and a Nightforce ATACR F1 7-35x56mm scope. I know it's a bit weighty, but it beats carrying two guns. I like the longer barrel for greater muzzle velocity and accuracy. It's not major, but when it comes to a clean kill, I'll take any advantage. Rig like that can hold 20 rounds AND be pushed out to 1500m with the heavier round staying supersonic until 1100m, iirc. I also realized with the 143gr Hornady ammo, it's weighty enough to deal with everything I'd see... apparently the Swedes have been using 6.5variants for 100 years or so for their biggest game with no problems, so no reason other than fun to look at a .338 Lapua, .338 Norma or the .416 Barrett. Not that it wouldn't be fun to set up a 2500m range, tho...hehehehe.

Looks super clean and having a "universal" platform means more training time on it...which is really what matters as a good marksman with a plain jane Remington 700 in .308 will smoke a guy who has the latest Steyr Carbon CL2 or a custom rig from a place like Gunwerks. So yeah, planning on lots and lots of training.

Anyway, I've looked at more stuff, but I'll leave it at this for now.

And @bluecoconuts you were totally right. The 6.5 Creedmoor is the way to go. MUCH better ballistics than the .308 AND SOCOM snipers are moving to it this year if they haven't already so there should be a bunch more availability in the next few years. That said, I did read from multiple sources that it's very important to get a purpose built hunting round and I agree. I saw a 1k batch of Hornady Precision Hunter 6.5 Creedmoor 143gr ELD-X which has a ballistic coefficient of approx 0.625 for $1.14/round on Ammoseek.com. They don't carry 6.5 Creedmoor on Bulkammo.com, but I expect that to change once the 6.5 Creed is fully adopted into the US Military. It's already a pretty big round among Euros and in Aussieland... Also, while it's not cheap, but it's not $4-7/round, either...

Considering even with I was plinking with .22lr ammo, I made every round count in that "you play how you practice" so I never, EVER just threw rounds down range. For me, the juice is in the practice, not listening to an expensive noisemaker. Others dig it and to each their own, but I'm not as worried about ammo price as some, even with an AR10 rig vs a bolt action rig. To further illustrate this point, I see young guys doing donuts in a parking lot and my first thought is that they're wasting expensive rubber on going in very small circles...and it stinks something awful. I don't get it, but again... to each their own.

Anyway, was wondering what you or anyone else thought.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Good looking rifle, it’ll definitely get the job done with what you need. The weight is always a trade off, but I didn’t have any issues with weight personally. I know some guys complain about having to ruck with heavier weight, but that’s part of the gig.

SOCOM has already moved to it for a number of platforms, and continue to adopt more, it just a good round and cost is already bringing it down to or below .308 rounds, which is even better. I think you’d really like it. Cost always sucks, but I like to say, buy once, cry once.