Goff or not Goff?

[thirteen28]

I’d just say he has a fantastic line & scheme & plays very well within it.

Agreed.

And contrary to some of his critics here, I don't think just any QB could be as effective in it as he is.

 

[So Ram]

So I guess the two INTs the Rams dropped don't count? Including Ramsey's potential pick six?

The Rams win the Superbowl so yes it didn’t count because The Rams won.

Purdy deserves the same respects. Jimmy G lost his job to him.The 9ers record speaks for itself.
Debo was hurt against GB.It is what it is & I don’t remember those 2 possible INT’s

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The 'Fisher years' from 2012-2016 ... when the Rams won/loss record was 31-48-1.


I was a die-hard-fan at that time but I have always pretty-much tuned-out any arguments that the out-come of NFL games are fixed or rigged. But, I do appreciate the background.

Now I want to read-up on how the Rams have done in Vinovich games since 2018. 1-2 in 2017 and 2018.

Thanks again.

It wasn’t my point to bring up that topic. But they did have enough signatures to get noticed, and it shows that the members of this forum that were tired of Vonibitch’s bad calls weren’t the only ones. In other words the hatred was not exclusive to this group.

 

[Allen2McVay]

It wasn’t my point to bring up that topic. But they did have enough signatures to get noticed, and it shows that the members of this forum that were tired of Vonibitch’s bad calls weren’t the only ones. In other words the hatred was not exclusive to this group.

I feel your anger my friend ... you went from the insulting VinoBitch to the weird and insulting VoniBitch!

 

[PARAM]

Goff is very susceptible to catastrophic plays.. shit.. he almost gave the Rams the game with that backward panic-pass.
The best guys don't do that, imo.

Who are the QBs who don't do that? Mahomes? I'll second that. Who else? Before you say Stafford, remember NOBODY in the history of the NFL has thrown more pick sixes. There isn't a more catastrophic play. Having said that, no riskit no biscuit. Goff isn't any more 'susceptible' to cstastrophic plays than the top QBs in the NFL.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I feel your anger my friend ... you went from the insulting VinoBitch to the weird and insulting VoniBitch!

I might have the most typos of anyone on the forum

 

[PhillyRam]

Who are the QBs who don't do that? Mahomes? I'll second that. Who else? Before you say Stafford, remember NOBODY in the history of the NFL has thrown more pick sixes. There isn't a more catastrophic play. Having said that, no riskit no biscuit. Goff isn't any more 'susceptible' to cstastrophic plays than the top QBs in the NFL.

Stafford definitely improved upon that. You could see the bad hero-ball habits he had when he got here. It took him most of that 21' season to finally break them and settle down a bit.

I guess when you have to carry a team like he did in Detroit, you tend to force the issue and feel you have to score on every drive. He did that here those first 10 or so games that yr, but then McVay apparently was able to coach some of that out of him where he began to manage the games better. Because it wasn't just interception's, he also would force the issue with a 40 yrd bomb on 3rd & 3. That drove me nuts that year, but he improved.

 

[Tano]

Stafford definitely improved upon that. You could see the bad hero-ball habits he had when he got here. It took him most of that 21' season to finally break them and settle down a bit.

I guess when you have to carry a team like he did in Detroit, you tend to force the issue and feel you have to score on every drive. He did that here those first 10 or so games that yr, but then McVay apparently was able to coach some of that out of him where he began to manage the games better. Because it wasn't just interception's, he also would force the issue with a 40 yrd bomb on 3rd & 3. That drove me nuts that year, but he improved.

He still does that from time to time and I go dammit Stafford - just get the first down.

 

[PARAM]

Stafford definitely improved upon that. You could see the bad hero-ball habits he had when he got here. It took him most of that 21' season to finally break them and settle down a bit.

I guess when you have to carry a team like he did in Detroit, you tend to force the issue and feel you have to score on every drive. He did that here those first 10 or so games that yr, but then McVay apparently was able to coach some of that out of him where he began to manage the games better. Because it wasn't just interception's, he also would force the issue with a 40 yrd bomb on 3rd & 3. That drove me nuts that year, but he improved.

He's had 3 picks 6's the past 2 seasons (24 GP) and a strip sack fumble TD. Plus one of the worse reads I've ever seen from him was the near pick 6 to TJ Watt this year that ended at our 1 and an eventual Pittsburgh TD. I'm not saying he sucks....I'm damn glad he's our QB.....just that there seems to be a different set of rules when it comes to JG with some Ram fans. You're right about one improvement....Stafford didn't throw any arm-punts this year.

On JG, his last 27 regular season games, with his supposed susceptibility to catastrophic plays, the Lions are 20-7. He's 630 of 943 (66.8%) for 7109 yards (7.54), 47 TD (5.0) and 13 Int (1.4) with a QB rating of 100.0. Anytime you have a 5.0 TD% and a sub 1.5% Int%, you are protecting the ball and producing good results. In 3 postseason games with the Lions, 77 of 111 (69.4%) for 837 yds (7.54), 4 TD (3.6%) 0 Int (0.0%) and a 103.3 QB rating.

My entire point is you can love the QB you have without having to disparage the QB you had. Particularly when he's played so well, helped turn around the Rams franchise and got a loser franchise (Detroit) to the CCG (eliminating the Rams in the process). But some fans can't resist I guess.

 

[PhillyRam]

He's had 3 picks 6's the past 2 seasons (24 GP) and a strip sack fumble TD. Plus one of the worse reads I've ever seen from him was the near pick 6 to TJ Watt this year that ended at our 1 and an eventual Pittsburgh TD. I'm not saying he sucks....I'm damn glad he's our QB.....just that there seems to be a different set of rules when it comes to JG with some Ram fans. You're right about one improvement....Stafford didn't throw any arm-punts this year.

On JG, his last 27 regular season games, with his supposed susceptibility to catastrophic plays, the Lions are 20-7. He's 630 of 943 (66.8%) for 7109 yards (7.54), 47 TD (5.0) and 13 Int (1.4) with a QB rating of 100.0. Anytime you have a 5.0 TD% and a sub 1.5% Int%, you are protecting the ball and producing good results. In 3 postseason games with the Lions, 77 of 111 (69.4%) for 837 yds (7.54), 4 TD (3.6%) 0 Int (0.0%) and a 103.3 QB rating.

My entire point is you can love the QB you have without having to disparage the QB you had. Particularly when he's played so well, got a loser franchise to the CCG and eliminated the Rams in the process. But some fans can't resist I guess.

You don't have to tell me that. I have always been a Goff guy, but I also came to realize that he does have limitations. Detroit has maybe the best OL in the league and when he is protected he can pick a team apart.

However, when he is pressured he can be downright bad, worse than most QB's. Put it this way, on one of the few plays where the Rams pressured Goff, he inexplicably tossed the ball backwards to his RT...Yikes!

Look at Goff vs the Ravens this yr and then Stafford vs the Ravens.

I would also say switch QBs in our playoff game, Stafford on the Lions and Goff on the Rams, and that game wouldn't have been close. Goff would not have held up against the pressure that Stafford was under as the Rams QB in that game.

Also, it is clear to me that Goff never pulls off those 3 last second wins in the playoffs in 21'...he just doesn't. Not with that poor run game and a very avg OL.

 

[PARAM]

You don't have to tell me that. I have always been a Goff guy, but I also came to realize that he does have limitations. Detroit has maybe the best OL in the league and when he is protected he can pick a team apart.

However, when he is pressured he can be downright bad, worse than most QB's. Put it this way, on one of the few plays where the Rams pressured Goff, he inexplicably tossed the ball backwards to his RT...Yikes!

Look at Goff vs the Ravens this yr and then Stafford vs the Ravens.

I would also say switch QBs in our playoff game, Stafford on the Lions and Goff on the Rams, and that game wouldn't have been close. Goff would not have held up against the pressure that Stafford was under as the Rams QB in that game.

Also, it is clear to me that Goff never pulls off those 3 last second wins in the playoffs in 21'...he just doesn't. Not with that poor run game and a very avg OL.

I can agree with all that except ("worse than most QB's"). I also don't buy into "change this guy with that guy and clearly the result is....". Stafford didn't exactly have the Rams 2022 O line his years in Detroit. He couldn't even win a postseason game. In 2011, 2014 and 2016 he certainly wasn't the QB he's become. Go back to the merger and look at all the QBs taken #1 in the draft (27). Goff isn't far down that list. Below Bradshaw, Elway, Aikman, the Mannings and Stafford but few others. Yes, he did only produce 3 points in the SB vs the Patriots. And for that, many Ram fans will forever make him the primary failure of the McVay era. If it makes them feel better to rag on him, more power to them. I'll choose to remember the thrills he provided, the phenomenal games he played under the bright lights, especially since the Rams have won a Lombardi since and look to vie for another soon. It's all part of being a long time fan. I still hold Gabriel in high regard and he never won anything significant.

 

[PhillyRam]

I can agree with all that except ("worse than most QB's"). I also don't buy into "change this guy with that guy and clearly the result is....". Stafford didn't exactly have the Rams 2022 O line his years in Detroit. He couldn't even win a postseason game. In 2011, 2014 and 2016 he certainly wasn't the QB he's become. Go back to the merger and look at all the QBs taken #1 in the draft (27). Goff isn't far down that list. Below Bradshaw, Elway, Aikman, the Mannings and Stafford but few others. Yes, he did only produce 3 points in the SB vs the Patriots. And for that, many Ram fans will forever make him the primary failure of the McVay era. If it makes them feel better to rag on him, more power to them. I'll choose to remember the thrills he provided, the phenomenal games he played under the bright lights, especially since the Rams have won a Lombardi since and look to vie for another soon. It's all part of being a long time fan. I still hold Gabriel in high regard and he never won anything significant.

I should say Goff is worse than most top 10 caliber QBs when pressured because he struggles to excel when he is moved off his spot. That even showed in the Niner game. When flushed he was not accurate and couldn't make big plays the way Stafford can in those situations. He also is a guy that needs a run game and play-action more than most top caliber QBs do.

That Detroit team was more of a running team than a passing team by today's stds. That running game was critical to Goff's success just as Gurley was critical to Goff's success here. When he first got to Detroit he struggled because he lacked those pieces. Contrary to the revisionist history, Detroit fans wanted him gone after one season.

And again, I like Goff, I was bashed on here for questioning the trade at the time and for being critical of Stafford's struggles in 21' in those first 8-9 games.

However I then began to see why McVay made the trade. He can carry an offense when things are not going well...see the SB where with no run game and a crippled receiving corp, he came through, or that Tampa game where everybody started fumbling all over the place.

Goff is a very good QB when surrounded by a very good cast. Not so much when more falls on his plate.

 

[PARAM]

However I then began to see why McVay made the trade. He can carry an offense when things are not going well...see the SB where with no run game and a crippled receiving corp, he came through, or that Tampa game where everybody started fumbling all over the place.

Goff is a very good QB when surrounded by a very good cast. Not so much when more falls on his plate.

I knew why McVay made the trade the day it was announced. Stafford was a 12 year vet with tons of experience. Goff was going into his 5th year (in a legit NFL system) and McVay wanted to change course.

I know Goff is a very good QB when surrounded by a very good cast. Not so much when more falls on his plate like 90% of NFL QBs.

I think the fans who are critical of Goff or believe "he's worse" than any top 10 QB when pressured, have seen every play he's made while with the Rams and just a fraction of plays from other QBs. So they've seen him make bad plays a number of times but those other QBs brain fart plays don't make the highlight reel. Familiarity.

 

[Ellard80]

He's had 3 picks 6's the past 2 seasons (24 GP) and a strip sack fumble TD. Plus one of the worse reads I've ever seen from him was the near pick 6 to TJ Watt this year that ended at our 1 and an eventual Pittsburgh TD. I'm not saying he sucks....I'm damn glad he's our QB.....just that there seems to be a different set of rules when it comes to JG with some Ram fans. You're right about one improvement....Stafford didn't throw any arm-punts this year.

On JG, his last 27 regular season games, with his supposed susceptibility to catastrophic plays, the Lions are 20-7. He's 630 of 943 (66.8%) for 7109 yards (7.54), 47 TD (5.0) and 13 Int (1.4) with a QB rating of 100.0. Anytime you have a 5.0 TD% and a sub 1.5% Int%, you are protecting the ball and producing good results. In 3 postseason games with the Lions, 77 of 111 (69.4%) for 837 yds (7.54), 4 TD (3.6%) 0 Int (0.0%) and a 103.3 QB rating.

My entire point is you can love the QB you have without having to disparage the QB you had. Particularly when he's played so well, helped turn around the Rams franchise and got a loser franchise (Detroit) to the CCG (eliminating the Rams in the process). But some fans can't resist I guess.

people do this often they will focus on Ints with Goff

Int's were not the biggest complaint about him - it was the fumbles, that was more of the sticking point in his last years. He led the NFL in 2018 with 12 fumbles... he had 10 the next year.

That's what got him run out of town more than anything.

But he has pulled his career back together nicely.

 

[FrantikRam]

I can agree with all that except ("worse than most QB's"). I also don't buy into "change this guy with that guy and clearly the result is....". Stafford didn't exactly have the Rams 2022 O line his years in Detroit. He couldn't even win a postseason game. In 2011, 2014 and 2016 he certainly wasn't the QB he's become. Go back to the merger and look at all the QBs taken #1 in the draft (27). Goff isn't far down that list. Below Bradshaw, Elway, Aikman, the Mannings and Stafford but few others. Yes, he did only produce 3 points in the SB vs the Patriots. And for that, many Ram fans will forever make him the primary failure of the McVay era. If it makes them feel better to rag on him, more power to them. I'll choose to remember the thrills he provided, the phenomenal games he played under the bright lights, especially since the Rams have won a Lombardi since and look to vie for another soon. It's all part of being a long time fan. I still hold Gabriel in high regard and he never won anything significant.

We changed Goff and Stafford with almost the exact same offense (except in 2020 we finished with a top ten run game because of Akers catching fire down the stretch).

Our starting OL, three WRs and TE were identical.

That's as close to that comparison as you'll ever get because aside from having 90% of the same personnel on offense, they also both had McVay.

You cannot make the same comparison for Detroit. Stafford never played under this regime and to my recollection, never had that good of an OL and certainly never had that run game.

 

[Tano]

We changed Goff and Stafford with almost the exact same offense (except in 2020 we finished with a top ten run game because of Akers catching fire down the stretch).

Our starting OL, three WRs and TE were identical.

That's as close to that comparison as you'll ever get because aside from having 90% of the same personnel on offense, they also both had McVay.

You cannot make the same comparison for Detroit. Stafford never played under this regime and to my recollection, never had that good of an OL and certainly never had that run game.

You forgot one key member on that offense

Blythe was horrible on 3rd and long whereas Allen was actually pretty decent on 3rd and long

Huge difference having a capable center on 3rd and long.

In the very first game, Stafford had a 3rd and long and he had a good 3 plus seconds to pass and that never happened for Goff in 2020.

And then McVay lost confidence in Goff and Goff's confidence in himself became shot and it was a good thing they parted ways.

 

[PARAM]

We changed Goff and Stafford with almost the exact same offense (except in 2020 we finished with a top ten run game because of Akers catching fire down the stretch).

Our starting OL, three WRs and TE were identical.

That's as close to that comparison as you'll ever get because aside from having 90% of the same personnel on offense, they also both had McVay.

You cannot make the same comparison for Detroit. Stafford never played under this regime and to my recollection, never had that good of an OL and certainly never had that run game.

Really? What Rams were you watching?
Allen was at C in 2021, Blythe in 2020.
Whitworth missed 7 games in 2020, 2 in 2021.
VJ took over for Reynolds in 2021.
In 2020 it was Akers & Henderson; 1249 yards. 2021 it was Sony Michel & Henderson, 1533 yards.
It was not "almost the same exact offense". Plus add OBJ for half of 2021. Not even close but that is also because of Stafford.

On the Lions OL.....If you go by that popularity contest, pro bowl selections the Lions OL always sucked. Riley Reiff, Dominic Raiola, Jeff Backus, Gosder Cherilus, Taylor Decker. Some pretty good OL among those guys. They didn't all play at the same time but they had some good OL's.

No run game either? 2011-2013 they had the #14, #20 and #14 run game in yards/att. Of course they're not going to be among the league leaders in yards because they HAD to pass so much. #23, #27 and #15 in pts allowed. #31, #25 and #29 in rush attempts. But to be sure, Stafford played behind some pretty good O lines in Detroit. And though he didn't have a great run game, part of that was they were behind a lot and couldn't run. Other times, yeah, they had no run game but not because of a bad O line. Though some guys are better at pass pro than run blocking.

I'm not saying he's not better than Goff. He is. He's also waaaay more experienced than Goff. In 2020 Goff was in his 4th full year as a starter. In 2021 Stafford was in his 13th year as a starter. Hey, I'm fine with how things are. I just have to SMH at some comments about Goff. He's a top 10 NFL QB, not a fooking Geno Smith.

 

[dieterbrock]

Agreed.

And contrary to some of his critics here, I don't think just any QB could be as effective in it as he is.

Exactly.
The guy has now played at an extremely high level for 2 different teams.
The team Detroit fielded in 2021 was a joke. The WR core was the worst I had ever seen.
Very few QB would have succeeded on that team.
So that’s 2 different teams, that went from being absolutely deplorable to a playoff contender within a couple seasons
Common denominator?
Jared Goff

 

[Tano]

Exactly.
The guy has now played at an extremely high level for 2 different teams.
The team Detroit fielded in 2021 was a joke. The WR core was the worst I had ever seen.
Very few QB would have succeeded on that team.
So that’s 2 different teams, that went from being absolutely deplorable to a playoff contender within a couple seasons
Common denominator?
Jared Goff

I have never said Jared Goff is an elite QB but I do believe he is in the next level of QBs. An elite QB when he has time and a so so to below average QB when pressured up the middle. He definitely does some dumb stuff from time to time when pressured.

 

[RamFan503]

You guys aren't tired of debating this yet? I realize it's a slow football period but....