Fisher turned down late first round pick for Bradford

[FRO]

One guy somewhere here said that it was the Broncos and they wanted him to backup Peyton and give Sam more time to get healthy and then be a starter next year. Makes sense I guess.

I think Sam is gullible though, because he was very happy to end up in Philly with Chip Kelly. Kelly must have convinced him good. Thing is that offense really exposes the QB to hits.

If he stayed here he would have taken a beating too. Our line sucks right now and probably will have 2 rookie starters.

 

[rking4441]

Well if we evaluate what the Eagles gave up you would have to say they were willing to pay a 2nd and 4th round pick, $13M and Nick Foles for Bradford and a 5th. I think the Eagles valued Bradford clearly as a 1st round value and the trade shows it. In fact Fisher and Chips unwillingness to take the "late" 1st rounder also verifies that Bradford has/had a draft value of a mid 1st rounder. I think if the Eagles didn't have Foles the Rams would still have Bradford of we would have seen if Chip would have been willing to part with the #20 pick. From the trade I believe he would have but not sure if Fisher would have accepted. In the end this trade might have been the best for both teams if Bradford flourishes in Philly.

Good luck Sam! (that means make sure you start 8 games!)

 

[RamseyF]

good. getting foles was needed and if sam stays upright we get a #2 rounder next year . .
http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2015/03/a-quarterback-tetralogy-rams-to-eagles.html

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

If he stayed here he would have taken a beating too. Our line sucks right now and probably will have 2 rookie starters.

Maybe. We dont know what the line will look like but I don't think Fisher Cignetti offense will be more prone to exposing the QB. Proabaly the opposite.

But. Didn't mean he should have stayed in St. Louis. I am glad he left. I mean other offenses with other teams might be less likely to expose the QB at the same frequency that Kelly's offense does.

 

[dieterbrock]

Maybe. We dont know what the line will look like but I don't think Fisher Cignetti offense will be more prone to exposing the QB. Proabaly the opposite.

But. Didn't mean he should have stayed in St. Louis. I am glad he left. I mean other offenses with other teams might be less likely to expose the QB at the same frequency that Kelly's offense does.

Totally agree here. I don't think the trade value issue legitimizes any debates about his play over the years, nor does it mean he should have stayed. By all accounts, both teams got their guy and its a win/win

 

[jjab360]

good. getting foles was needed and if sam stays upright we get a #2 rounder next year . .
http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2015/03/a-quarterback-tetralogy-rams-to-eagles.html

We get the 2nd rounder either way.

 

[jjab360]

Totally agree here. I don't think the trade value issue legitimizes any debates about his play over the years, nor does it mean he should have stayed. By all accounts, both teams got their guy and its a win/win

His trade value definitely legitimizes that side of the argument in the debate on whether or not teams and talent evaluators though highly of him around the league.

 

[FRO]

Maybe. We dont know what the line will look like but I don't think Fisher Cignetti offense will be more prone to exposing the QB. Proabaly the opposite.

But. Didn't mean he should have stayed in St. Louis. I am glad he left. I mean other offenses with other teams might be less likely to expose the QB at the same frequency that Kelly's offense does.

I don't see how Chip's offense really exposes the QB. It's predicated on fast tempo and getting the ball out quickly. He won't be running the read option with Bradford. Our QBs have been hit many times in Fisher's tenure. Our line was good for a short stretch in 2013, other than that it's been horrible every year with 2012 being the worst.

 

[DaveFan'51]

People keep Talking about the 2nd rounder in 2016 we got. Don't forget we got a 4th rounder this year! And I want to see how we use it!!

 

[jjab360]

People keep Talking about the 2nd rounder in 2016 we got. Don't forget we got a 4th rounder this year! And I want to see how we use it!!

Technically, it was just a trade up from the early 5th round to the late 4th round.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Technically, it was just a trade up from the early 5th round to the late 4th round.

Please explain this^!! That's not the way I heard it!!

 

[RamseyF]

We get the 2nd rounder either way.

you are right. i mean to say we won't have to give back the 3rd . . . sorry . .. but i hope we get value like we did in the gabrial trade

http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2015/03/a-quarterback-tetralogy-rams-to-eagles.html

Thursday, March 12, 2015
A Quarterback Tetralogy: Rams To Eagles


When the St. Louis Rams shipped Sam Bradfordfor Nick Foles and a second-round pick plus a swap of picks this year and a potential conditional pick in 2016 it was the fourth time a talented signal-caller was sent to the City of Brotherly Love. It was an exercise previously tried in 1958, 1973 and 1977 and it led to three of the best quarterbacking performances in Eagles history.

Graphic: Pro Football Journal
Part one
In 1959 second-year Rams general manager Pete Rozelle shipped long-time Rams passer Norm Van Brocklin for two players (Buck Lansford and Jimmy Harris) and a first-round draft pick in 1959. The Rams used that pick to take running back Dick Bass, who retired after the 1969 season as the Rams all-time leading rusher and who had two 1,000-yard rushing seasons to his credit.

Thought it was not overnight, Van Brocklin took a team that was a middle-of-the pack defense and a botton-of-the-pack rushing offense to an NFL Championship in 1960 with a victory over Vince Lombardi's Green Bay Packers. The Eagles were 2-9-1 in Van Brocklin's initial season and improved to 7-5 in 1959. In 1960 the Eagles were 10-2 and won it all as Van Brocklin was the NFL Player of the Year and was a consensus First-team All-Pro. Shortly thereafter, Van Brocklin retired and in 1961 took over the reigns as the Minnesota Vikings Head Coach.


Part two
When Don Klosterman traded 1972 Pro Bowl defensive end Coy Bacon and running back Bob Thomas to the San Diego Chargers for John Hadl (who also played in the 1972 Pro Bowl), it was a rare exchange of Pro Bowl players that did not happen again until the Redskins and Broncos swapped Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis in 2004. When news of the trade hit the newspapers, it was reported that Rams starting quarterback Roman Gabriel demanded a trade. Klosterman obliged him and it turned out to be one of the most one-sided trades in NFL history.

The Eagles received Gabriel in exchange for Pro Bowl wide receiver Harold Jackson, running back Tony Baker, two first-round choices and a third-round choice. With the picks the Rams chose John Cappeletti in 1974, future Pro Bowl guard Dennis Harrah and guard Dan Nugent.

Gabriel paid early dividends. He took a woeful Eagle team that was 2-11-1 to 5-8-1 in 1973 and was named the NFL Comeback Player of the Year and was voted to the Pro Bowl (along with Hadl). And a couple of missed-field goals cost the Eagles a 7-7 season. That season, the Eagles gave the Minnesota Vikings all they could handle in a 28-21 loss and beat the Dallas Cowboys 30-16 (the Vikings and the Cowboys played in the NFC Championship game that season). The Eagles then started the 1974 season strong, going 4-1 and again beating the Dallas Cowboys. A great goal line stand by the St. Louis Cardinals in the season opener cost the Eagles a 5-0 start.

Then, the following week, the Eagles went on a six-game losing streak. They had a 24-17 lead over the Cowboys in Dallas, but late in the third quarter theCowboys tied it up and Roger Staubach drove the ball and scored himself for the winning touchdown. After the sixth straight loss, Eagle Head Coach Mike McCormack started youngster Mike Boryla for the final three games, all of which the Eagles won, finishing 7-7.

In 1975 Boryla started the opener but was ineffective and played his way out of the starting job. Gabriel took over and still, the Eagles struggled. Boryla started again, but was benched again in the late Fall and then he got the final two starts of 1975.

The Rams got a lot in the initial trade and then, later, parlayed some of those players into even more picks. For example, they got five seasons from Harold Jackson then traded him to the Patriots for a 3rd round pick and a 4th round pick. They also traded Dan Nugent to the Redskins for a 2nd and 3rd round pair of picks. After six years of service, the Rams sent John Cappeletti to the San Diego Chargers for a 2nd round pick. Tony Baker was shipped to the Chargers for a pick the Rams used to take linebacker Carl Ekern. The string played out even longer, but the minutia is perhaps too esoteric for even Pro Football Journal. Without doubt it was a trade that kept giving for many years.

The Eagles got an excellent season and a quarter out of Gabriel, then not much more until he retired after the 1977 season when he was the backup for Ron Jaworski.


Part three
Jaworski. He is part three of this four-part work. Jaworski played well in the late-1975 season when Rams starter James Harris was hurt. He beat the Steelers in the season finale and guided the Rams to a playoff victory over the St. Louis Cardinals. Harris was called upon by Chuck Knox to start the NFC Championship game at the Coliseum in Los Angeles the following week and it didn't sit well with Jaworski. Harris was ineffective in the game and by the time Knox pulled Harris and replaced him with Jaworski the game was out of hand and the Rams lost a blowout to the Cowboys.

The following season the Rams had a merry-go-round at quarterback, with Harris, Jaworski and Pat Haden all starting and all being injured, at some point during the season. Jaworski played the 1976 season with the intent on playing out his option and becoming a free-agent of sorts in 1977. It was nearly two decades before the NFL had true free agency and to become free a player had to play the current season at a salary that was ten-percent less than his prior years' salary. In this case, Jaworski played for $29,700. And even though the Rams had offered him a five-year $700,000 contract, Jaworski made good on his decision. Additionally, Jaworski's future likely wasn't going to last long with the Rams after he flung a beer bottle near the head of general manager Don Klosterman in the team hotel on one of the 1976 road games.

So, after the 1976 season, the Rams traded the rights to Jaworski to the Eagles for the rights to tight end Charlie Young, who also played out his option and wanted a significant raise that the Eagles were not willing to pay. Second-year Eagles coach Dick Vermeil thought he had a franchise quarterback (thought that term was not in the NFL lexicon at the time). Jaworski proved Vermeil right, as the Eagles improved in 1977 and 1978 and were a playoff team in 1979.

In 1980 theEagles advanced to the Super Bowl, where they lost to the Oakland Raiders and Jaworski was First-team All-NFC and was voted to the Pro Bowl .Jaworski was effective in the pocket for a handful more years. Meanwhile, on the West Coast, the Rams got very little out of Charlie Young, who was not a capable blocker and was never a starter for the Rams. In his three seasons in Los Angeles, Young caught only 36 passes for 392 yards and three touchdowns (which would amount to a below-average single season for him).

In 1980 so the Rams did recoup something by trading Young to the San Francisco 49ers for a third-round pick in the 1980 NFL draft and a fourth-round selection in 1983 draft. With the 49ers Young was again the talented pass catcher that he was with the Eagles, which the Rams would have liked to see more of during his stint in Los Angeles.

s
So, in a few years, the time it took Van Brocklin to win an NFL Championsip andthe time it took Jaworski to get the Eagles to Super Bowl XV, Eagles fans will see if the Foles for Bradford trade works out and we'll have the denouement of thetetralogy.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I don't see how Chip's offense really exposes the QB. It's predicated on fast tempo and getting the ball out quickly. He won't be running the read option with Bradford. Our QBs have been hit many times in Fisher's tenure. Our line was good for a short stretch in 2013, other than that it's been horrible every year with 2012 being the worst.

I think it does and he has three QBs that got injured in it already. Once NFL defenses figured out how to attack the weaknesses the offense was less affective. The weaknesses have been the QBs. Sanchez cannot throw deep so the deep receivers are not a factor and don't have to be covered as closely. Foles is a slow runner and that eliminated the read/option and general threat to run. Sam is similar to Foles, he is even less mobile. That offense relies on very quick decisions. There are options all over the field and the QB just has to figure out which one is least defended or not defended. If you take away a faze of the offense, like the deep ball or the QB runs, the defense can focus on defending the QBs other options. Making it harder to make a decision because nothing is open and then hanging onto the ball too long, which usually ends up being a sack.

Sam needs to be in a max protection scheme. Fisher brought in Wells for a reason. Sam was never good at making line adjustments. Wells could do it. I think Sam is a bit of a slow thinking on an NFL QB level. I think he will struggle and hold onto the ball too long, and he will be sacked........a lot. That offense works best with a running QB.......and then that QB is exposed a lot too.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the Patriots - keep Sam under wraps for a year or two....

They do have McDaniels, it is possible.

 

[Mackeyser]

Please explain this^!! That's not the way I heard it!!

We traded our 5th (10th) and the 2016 conditional pick (maybe) based on playing time for their 4th (20th) as well as their 2nd in 2016.

So in the 2015 draft, the net effect is that we moved up about 20 picks.

 

[Mojo Ram]

And further proof that guys like me, who thought Sam had no trade value, were major league wrong

I have to join you in that corner, unfortunately. I'm rarely wrong about anything but when i am, I'm dead wrong!

 

[dieterbrock]

I have to join you in that corner, unfortunately. I'm rarely wrong about anything but when i am, I'm dead wrong!

Go big or go home I guess. Lol

 

[FRO]

I think it does and he has three QBs that got injured in it already. Once NFL defenses figured out how to attack the weaknesses the offense was less affective. The weaknesses have been the QBs. Sanchez cannot throw deep so the deep receivers are not a factor and don't have to be covered as closely. Foles is a slow runner and that eliminated the read/option and general threat to run. Sam is similar to Foles, he is even less mobile. That offense relies on very quick decisions. There are options all over the field and the QB just has to figure out which one is least defended or not defended. If you take away a faze of the offense, like the deep ball or the QB runs, the defense can focus on defending the QBs other options. Making it harder to make a decision because nothing is open and then hanging onto the ball too long, which usually ends up being a sack.

Sam needs to be in a max protection scheme. Fisher brought in Wells for a reason. Sam was never good at making line adjustments. Wells could do it. I think Sam is a bit of a slow thinking on an NFL QB level. I think he will struggle and hold onto the ball too long, and he will be sacked........a lot. That offense works best with a running QB.......and then that QB is exposed a lot too.

The Patriots have been running elements of that Oregon offense for years. They have protected Brady. I think a fast paced offense has staying power. It is effective in moving the ball and scoring points. I'm not sure it's a winning strategy because you leave your defense hanging out to dry.

 

[Ballhawk]

I have yet to hear anything from Jaws about this trade. I don't think that he is a Bradford fan, but many are changing their tune lately.

 

[shaunpinney]

Highly doubt it was the Pats. No way would they backup more than Brady. They got rid of a bunch of guys due to money.

They're the only team I can think of with a late round pick that don't need a Qb to perform today, and maybe Denver, but I can't see Sam fitting with Denver. And there's other factors. McDaniels, amendola they wouldn't need to change the offender that much etc...

Anyway was just my opinion.