Do we undervalue player development?

[AvengerRam]

What did they tell Aaron Donald when he came into the league? Something like "don't listen to a word we say. You just do what you do...'

So... because some players have an immediate impact, that means that others can’t be late bloomers who need to develop over time?

 

[CoachAllred]

Fans and other outside observers, when perceiving a hole in a team's roster, are always keen on talking about player acquisition. Sign that free agent... draft that guy... trade for that other team's disgruntled star.

In doing so, I wonder whether we may be undervaluing player development. Certainly, there are examples of teams elevating players from the sidelines to key roles on the field. Darious Williams is a good recent example of such a player. Undrafted, claimed off waivers in 2018... in 2020, he's a key part of a defense that finished first in yards allowed.

I think that certain positions are more likely to produce "late bloomers" of this type. RBs, for example, tend to succeed early, or not at all. At other positions, though, it may take time in the weight room, learning a system, or finding the right role.

Turning back to the Rams, I wonder... who could be this year's Darious Williams? Could it be a guy like Austin Corbett moving to center? Or maybe Brycen Hopkins making us quickly forget Gerald Everett? Or is Van Jefferson going to become a star in his second year (much like a recent HOF Rams WR, who was also a 2nd round pick who blossomed in year 2). Or maybe a guy like Obo is ready to become a force?

Could our next rising star be right under our noses?

Thread idea of the month. And yes me as a fan, I often overlook this aspect. Well done Sir. And different players develop at different rates

 

[So Ram]

What did they tell Aaron Donald when he came into the league? Something like "don't listen to a word we say. You just do what you do...'

AD99 is one of the most self motivated player in NFL History. Jerry Rice is an example there.

We can also talk about those 2 Husker RB’s. That would not be as much of an example.

 

[RamFan503]

Oh, I know ... and he is a bit of a moron these day

On stats, he did play mostly in the "dead ball" era as they called it, when DBs were allowed to mug receivers anywhere on the field and offensive linemen couldn't open their hands.

All true.

 

[oldnotdead]

People who think the Rams undervalue development simply don't understand NFL team structure. These so-called experts who think that and say that kind of thing haven't a clue that their blanket statement makes no sense.

At the top of the hierarchy is McVay. His role is to be an innovator, and creator of the team culture all the while managing the team overall and dealing with diva egos both coaching and players. Sean is not a teaching coach, he expects his position coaches to do that part of the workload. A good head coach must by necessity delegate the workload, breaking that work down into individual units, i.e. RBs, o-line, WRs, TE. QBs, d-line, LBs, secondary, STs, etc., etc. Each unit is overseen by a position coach with his own subordinate assistant coaches. It is these coaches that develop the talent. How well that happens depends upon how good the coaches are.

For example, in the McVay era, they have had excellent coaching for the defensive secondary. Look at how well players like Rapp, Fuller, Johnson, and now Scott have played. To say there is a lack of development there would be completely wrong. Contrast that with the o-line who as a unit has struggled to develop young talent under Kromer.

QB is much the same in so much as we have witnessed how Goff's development was stunted by poor coaching, both from his position coach and especially from McVay who completely sabotaged Jared's development with his micro-management of Goff's play. I've been saying this for a couple of years now. Sean won't do that to Stafford. It is why I simply don't see them drafting their "franchise" QB as long as McVay is HC. They would rather trade for a hired gun like Stafford.

RBs, and WRs have progressed as expected which reflects solid coaching for those units. So you simply can't isolate deficiencies of some players and ignore the blossoming of others on the same team.

Yes, there have been problems with the o-line and QB and those two have been addressed. The o-line by kicking Kromer upstairs and replacing him with Carberry someone with a proven track record of developing college talent. Kromer looked fine when he didn't have to coach up young players and the line was comprised of proven vets. When the line got younger, Kromer's shortcomings were exposed. The issue with the QB was solved by simply trading for Stafford who doesn't need a position coach and with whom McVay doesn't feel the need to micro-manage his play.

When players don't meet expectations, it could be coaching, but it could be a lack of talent in the player, his work ethic, or perhaps a poor fit for the scheme. Troy Hill is a perfect example of that. Under Phillips' man-coverage preference Hill was miscast. It was clear that Hill was a zone CB, not a man coverage CB. So when Staley installed his zone-heavy secondary scheme Hill's play improved. Darious Williams is a perfect example of a talented and motivated player being taught proper boundary CB techniques. Darious Williams is a perfect example of player development by good coaching.

So the answer to the question is an emphatic no. They do develop players, but some position coaches are better than others at that particular skill.

 

[AvengerRam]

People who think the Rams undervalue development simply don't understand NFL team structure. These so-called experts who think that and say that kind of thing haven't a clue that their blanket statement makes no sense.

At the top of the hierarchy is McVay. His role is to be an innovator, and creator of the team culture all the while managing the team overall and dealing with diva egos both coaching and players. Sean is not a teaching coach, he expects his position coaches to do that part of the workload. A good head coach must by necessity delegate the workload, breaking that work down into individual units, i.e. RBs, o-line, WRs, TE. QBs, d-line, LBs, secondary, STs, etc., etc. Each unit is overseen by a position coach with his own subordinate assistant coaches. It is these coaches that develop the talent. How well that happens depends upon how good the coaches are.

For example, in the McVay era, they have had excellent coaching for the defensive secondary. Look at how well players like Rapp, Fuller, Johnson, and now Scott have played. To say there is a lack of development there would be completely wrong. Contrast that with the o-line who as a unit has struggled to develop young talent under Kromer.

QB is much the same in so much as we have witnessed how Goff's development was stunted by poor coaching, both from his position coach and especially from McVay who completely sabotaged Jared's development with his micro-management of Goff's play. I've been saying this for a couple of years now. Sean won't do that to Stafford. It is why I simply don't see them drafting their "franchise" QB as long as McVay is HC. They would rather trade for a hired gun like Stafford.

RBs, and WRs have progressed as expected which reflects solid coaching for those units. So you simply can't isolate deficiencies of some players and ignore the blossoming of others on the same team.

Yes, there have been problems with the o-line and QB and those two have been addressed. The o-line by kicking Kromer upstairs and replacing him with Carberry someone with a proven track record of developing college talent. Kromer looked fine when he didn't have to coach up young players and the line was comprised of proven vets. When the line got younger, Kromer's shortcomings were exposed. The issue with the QB was solved by simply trading for Stafford who doesn't need a position coach and with whom McVay doesn't feel the need to micro-manage his play.

When players don't meet expectations, it could be coaching, but it could be a lack of talent in the player, his work ethic, or perhaps a poor fit for the scheme. Troy Hill is a perfect example of that. Under Phillips' man-coverage preference Hill was miscast. It was clear that Hill was a zone CB, not a man coverage CB. So when Staley installed his zone-heavy secondary scheme Hill's play improved. Darious Williams is a perfect example of a talented and motivated player being taught proper boundary CB techniques. Darious Williams is a perfect example of player development by good coaching.

So the answer to the question is an emphatic no. They do develop players, but some position coaches are better than others at that particular skill.

That’s great, but the question posed was whether FANS undervalue player development.

 

[Deadpool]

That’s great, but the question posed was whether FANS undervalue player development.

Some may.

Many do not.

Coaching is a thing.

What fan ever doubted that?

 

[Allen2McVay]

People who think the Rams undervalue development simply don't understand NFL team structure. These so-called experts who think that and say that kind of thing haven't a clue that their blanket statement makes no sense.

The first sentences of the Original Post reads:
'Fans and other outside observers, ... In doing so, I wonder whether we may be undervaluing player development.

Pretty clear the OP was NOT asking whether the Rams undervalue development.

Way to pontificate though.

 

[Deadpool]

The first sentences of the Original Post reads:
'Fans and other outside observers, ... In doing so, I wonder whether we may be undervaluing player development.

Pretty clear the OP was NOT asking whether the Rams undervalue development.

Way to pontificate though.

Lawyers do that.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Lawyers do that.

Guy must be a Judge then.

 

[AvengerRam]

Some may.

Many do not.

Coaching is a thing.

What fan ever doubted that?

A couple of the people who responded in this thread, apparently.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Fans and other outside observers, when perceiving a hole in a team's roster, are always keen on talking about player acquisition. Sign that free agent... draft that guy... trade for that other team's disgruntled star.

In doing so, I wonder whether we may be undervaluing player development. Certainly, there are examples of teams elevating players from the sidelines to key roles on the field. Darious Williams is a good recent example of such a player. Undrafted, claimed off waivers in 2018... in 2020, he's a key part of a defense that finished first in yards allowed.

I think that certain positions are more likely to produce "late bloomers" of this type. RBs, for example, tend to succeed early, or not at all. At other positions, though, it may take time in the weight room, learning a system, or finding the right role.

Turning back to the Rams, I wonder... who could be this year's Darious Williams? Could it be a guy like Austin Corbett moving to center? Or maybe Brycen Hopkins making us quickly forget Gerald Everett? Or is Van Jefferson going to become a star in his second year (much like a recent HOF Rams WR, who was also a 2nd round pick who blossomed in year 2). Or maybe a guy like Obo is ready to become a force?

Could our next rising star be right under our noses?

If a player blossoms in year two, that isn’t development. That’s adjusting to the league and earning the trust of your team. Anyone could see Ike’s potential in his first year just like we could see Williams potential in 2019. Getting a guy like Williams late in the draft or off a PS is finding a draft Gem. Developing to me is a guy like SJD. He’ll never be a star NT but he’s developed into a good player. Morgan Fox is another, Troy Hill is another. But then you also have guts who don’t develop. How much better did Everett get from year one? Has Evans improved his pass blocking much? Players that develop still have limitations. Corey Littleton is a good example. Ebukam is another. Not every player can be molded into being average or above average. Many are roe specific.
If anything I just think you see urgency with fans who want holes filled while the team is close to a Super Bowl.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

A couple of the people who responded in this thread, apparently.

I don’t see many here saying that and the ones that do may not be wording it well. Basically you cannot develop just anyone. They have meet a criteria, and even then some can’t overcome their limitations. Josh Reynolds is a good example.

To me this is just seems a veiled attempt at telling the draftniks they don’t know anything. It’s recently been a vogue theme by the guys that don’t follow the draft closely. You have three threads taking jabs at mock drafters. Nobody gets the picks right all of the time, even GMs. It’s especially difficult for fans to evaluate late round picks and UDFAs. There are definitely players that don’t get looked at closely by mock drafters. There are too many small school guys or late bloomers. That is why most who argue draft picks only argue the picks from rounds 1-4. Not many have the time to get beyond that and argue about developmental picks because there is no way to discern to what extent they develop outside of athletic potential. The assumption with drafting since McVay has been the coach is that every Rams pick has the right mental makeup to improve if possible. Snead even tries to stack the odds. He said the reason he likes to get more picks each draft is to increase his chances of hitting on some of these late draft picks.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Methinks that there is a blurred line between development and opportunity.

 

[AvengerRam]

I don’t see many here saying that and the ones that do may not be wording it well. Basically you cannot develop just anyone. They have meet a criteria, and even then some can’t overcome their limitations. Josh Reynolds is a good example.

To me this is just seems a veiled attempt at telling the draftniks they don’t know anything. It’s recently been a vogue theme by the guys that don’t follow the draft closely. You have three threads taking jabs at mock drafters. Nobody gets the picks right all of the time, even GMs. It’s especially difficult for fans to evaluate late round picks and UDFAs. There are definitely players that don’t get looked at closely by mock drafters. There are too many small school guys or late bloomers. That is why most who argue draft picks only argue the picks from rounds 1-4. Not many have the time to get beyond that and argue about developmental picks because there is no way to discern to what extent they develop outside of athletic potential. The assumption with drafting since McVay has been the coach is that every Rams pick has the right mental makeup to improve if possible. Snead even tries to stack the odds. He said the reason he likes to get more picks each draft is to increase his chances of hitting on some of these late draft picks.

I’m a draftnik/mock drafter.

I will say this... more than any prior year, I completely missed the mark on my picks this year, as did many prognosticators. It has left me questioning my process of trying to discern the team’s plans.

I think that, perhaps, we discounted comments made by Snead praising some of the reserves as mere smokescreens. In the future, I will assign greater significance to those types of comments.

 

[OnceARam]

That’s great, but the question posed was whether FANS undervalue player development.

Yes, for sure. You can't teach talent or work ethic. But player development speaks to more than that because there is a collaborative element to it. For example, players have to learn schemes so well that they become second nature so that they can make adjustments on the fly. That's not something you can do without a good coaching staff.

Us fans don't see any of the work that goes into gameday performance. But like watching a great musician, you know that there was a lot of work that went into it. But, us fans, have no idea how complicated or intricate that work is. So yes, there is no way we could really appreciate it.

 

[HitStick]

I think development is reserved for backups in all actuality. Sometimes those players that weren’t supposed to be starters, develop into starters. If you’re drafting a starter, they are expected to put up numbers early...or at least show something early. That’s why almost none of the “early round developmental” players pan out. This is also why the Rams had a stretch of bad years

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I’m a draftnik/mock drafter.

I will say this... more than any prior year, I completely missed the mark on my picks this year, as did many prognosticators. It has left me questioning my process of trying to discern the team’s plans.

I think that, perhaps, we discounted comments made by Snead praising some of the reserves as mere smokescreens. In the future, I will assign greater significance to those types of comments.

Sorry for misconstruing you’re intentions. No fan of any team can know exactly what their team is thinking. But they all can identify weaknesses.

Besides. Corbett has never played Center. He may fail and then they are back to finding one.
We all knew that a speed receiver was a need but didn’t think they’d be so concerned that they’d take a small player to fill it.
What really makes it difficult though is how the draft falls. We could all be elated with a higher rated player had the Rams been able to move up for one or one fell

 

[dieterbrock]

Methinks that there is a blurred line between development and opportunity.

That's a great point

 

[iamme33]

i don't know how player development can be under valued. look at the deference in fisher's goff and mcvays. there is a reason that mcvay does not like to play rookies any more than he has to.