OC--LeftCoast
Agent Provocateur
In a few words, Science and data failed, failed miserably, shocking as it is
Covid 19 thread
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In a few words, Science and data failed, failed miserably, shocking as it is
comparing Faux News to credible medical research is laughable. Faux tends to bash conservatives? Only in the Upside Down.
OC--LeftCoast
Agent Provocateur
Right, so who’s credible in your opinion on cable news?
probably not a bad idea if you just ignore the question
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so here in australia, queensland had gone a couple of months with no cases.
then two bitches who had visited victoria lied at the border checkpoint so they could go back into the state without having to go into hotel isolation for two weeks at their own cost. so they went about their daily lives for a week and now they have tested positive. they already infected one of their sisters.
now
their pictures have been plastered over all the media now so their lives are gonna be pretty rotten if people recognise them in the streets. they're a little how're you going up there.
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so here in australia, queensland had gone a couple of months with no cases.
then two bitches who had visited victoria lied at the border checkpoint so they could go back into the state without having to go into hotel isolation for two weeks at their own cost. so they went about their daily lives for a week and now they have tested positive. they already infected one of their sisters.
now
their pictures have been plastered over all the media now so their lives are gonna be pretty rotten if people recognise them in the streets. they're a little how're you going up there.
.
Looks like a lot of those glowing reports are from February, March, and April, which is a lifetime ago in the study of HCQ.
For example, your link mentions the "great success" Italy was having with HCQ back on March 29. Only little problem? Italy completely reversed course and banned the use of HCQ two months later, citing safety concerns:
EU governments ban malaria drug for COVID-19, trial paused as safety fears grow
European governments moved on Wednesday to halt the use of anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 patients, and a second global trial was suspended, further blows to hopes for a treatment promoted by U.S. President Donald Trump.www.reuters.com
And yeah, I'm inclined to trust more in doctors from Europe and the USA more than I'll trust doctors from Malaysia, Nigeria, Jordan, Bahrain, Qatar, and Cuba.
From the article you linked:
" The Lancet has reported coronavirus patients receiving hydroxychloroquine were more likely to die and experience dangerous irregular heartbeats."
From about a week later:
'Truly sorry': Scientists pull panned Lancet study of Trump-touted drug
An influential study that found hydroxychloroquine increased the risk of death in COVID-19 patients has been withdrawn a week after it led to major trials being halted, adding to confusion about a malaria drug championed by U.S. President Donald Trump.
www.reuters.com
"The Lancet medical journal pulled the study after three of its authors retracted it, citing concerns about the quality and veracity of data in it. The World Health Organization (WHO) will resume its hydroxychloroquine trials after pausing them in the wake of the study. Dozens of other trials have resumed or are in process.
The three authors said Surgisphere, the company that provided the data, would not transfer the dataset for an independent review and they “can no longer vouch for the veracity of the primary data sources.”
The fourth author of the study, Dr. Sapan Desai, chief executive of Surgisphere, declined to comment on the retraction.
The Lancet said it “takes issues of scientific integrity extremely seriously” adding: “There are many outstanding questions about Surgisphere and the data that were allegedly included in this study”."
Here's more on the study referenced in the article you linked:
Updated: Lancet Published a Fraudulent Study: Editor Calls it “Department of Error”
On May 22, 2020, The Lancet published “Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine With or Without A Macrolide For Treatment of COVID-19: a Multinational Registry Analysis”. The study was described as an observational study purportedly involving more than 96,000 hospitalized Covid-19 patients in 671...
ahrp.org
Some money quotes:
"Undisclosed is the fact that the two lead co-authors both have significant, relevant financial conflicts of interest that more than likely biased the reported findings."
" Dr. Mandeep Mehra, the lead co-author is a director at Brigham & Women’s Hospital. Dr. Mehra and The Lancet failed to disclose that Brigham Hospital has a partnership with Gilead and is currently conducting TWO trials testing Remdesivir, the prime competitor of hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19, the focus of the study."
"The unvalidated database belongs to Surgisphere Corporation whose founder and CEO, is Dr. Sapan Desai, who is a lead co-author of the study. Dr. Desai has refused to disclose the data – for independent confirmatory review. In fact, he refuses to identify the participating hospitals, or even the countries."
"The alarming findings and serious negative impact of the Lancet report led numerous scientists around the globe to scrutinize the report in detail. That scrutiny by legitimate, independent scientists has led to many serious questions about the integrity of the study, the authenticity of the data, and the validity of the methods the authors used."
"The scientists question the evidence for claimed serious risks posed from the use of hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19 patients. Among the concerns raised by the scientists are the following:
- A range of gross deviations from standard research and clinical practices, such as: patients were prescribed inexplicably high daily doses of hydroxychloroquine –far higher than the FDA-recommended doses.
- There was no ethics review.
- The number of patients reportedly from Australia far exceeded the number of patients in the Australian government database;.
- Gross misrepresentation of the numbers of deaths in Australia.
- “Both the number of cases and deaths [the claimed 40% deaths in Africa], and the details provide seem unlikely.”
- Refusal to identify the hospitals that contributed patient data.
- The ratios of patients who received chloroquine (49 %) to those who received hydroxychloroquine (50% ) are implausible; in Australia chloroquine is not available without special government authorization."
So, you were saying?
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Chairman Roger Ailes, Meghan Kelly, Ed Henry, Shepard Smith, etc... al Faux News big shots who quit or got fired for being complete lying shitbags or perverts. And that’s ot a few that I can remember. Bill O’Reilly was cancelled after paying a huge sexual harassment settlement. Yeah, I trust these fuckers! You probably want to ignore my reply...
OC--LeftCoast
Agent Provocateur
lol, way to answer a simple question...shoulda known better
They all suck, yes even FOX
carry on Jesus
Yeah, I’m well aware of the Lancet retraction. That’s why I posted the links to the two Science Magazine links, both of which were published AFTER the retraction.From the article you linked:
" The Lancet has reported coronavirus patients receiving hydroxychloroquine were more likely to die and experience dangerous irregular heartbeats."
From about a week later:
'Truly sorry': Scientists pull panned Lancet study of Trump-touted drug
An influential study that found hydroxychloroquine increased the risk of death in COVID-19 patients has been withdrawn a week after it led to major trials being halted, adding to confusion about a malaria drug championed by U.S. President Donald Trump.
"The Lancet medical journal pulled the study after three of its authors retracted it, citing concerns about the quality and veracity of data in it. The World Health Organization (WHO) will resume its hydroxychloroquine trials after pausing them in the wake of the study. Dozens of other trials have resumed or are in process.
The three authors said Surgisphere, the company that provided the data, would not transfer the dataset for an independent review and they “can no longer vouch for the veracity of the primary data sources.”
The fourth author of the study, Dr. Sapan Desai, chief executive of Surgisphere, declined to comment on the retraction.
The Lancet said it “takes issues of scientific integrity extremely seriously” adding: “There are many outstanding questions about Surgisphere and the data that were allegedly included in this study”."
Here's more on the study referenced in the article you linked:
Updated: Lancet Published a Fraudulent Study: Editor Calls it “Department of Error”
On May 22, 2020, The Lancet published “Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine With or Without A Macrolide For Treatment of COVID-19: a Multinational Registry Analysis”. The study was described as an observational study purportedly involving more than 96,000 hospitalized Covid-19 patients in 671...
Some money quotes:
"Undisclosed is the fact that the two lead co-authors both have significant, relevant financial conflicts of interest that more than likely biased the reported findings."
" Dr. Mandeep Mehra, the lead co-author is a director at Brigham & Women’s Hospital. Dr. Mehra and The Lancet failed to disclose that Brigham Hospital has a partnership with Gilead and is currently conducting TWO trials testing Remdesivir, the prime competitor of hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19, the focus of the study."
"The unvalidated database belongs to Surgisphere Corporation whose founder and CEO, is Dr. Sapan Desai, who is a lead co-author of the study. Dr. Desai has refused to disclose the data – for independent confirmatory review. In fact, he refuses to identify the participating hospitals, or even the countries."
"The alarming findings and serious negative impact of the Lancet report led numerous scientists around the globe to scrutinize the report in detail. That scrutiny by legitimate, independent scientists has led to many serious questions about the integrity of the study, the authenticity of the data, and the validity of the methods the authors used."
"The scientists question the evidence for claimed serious risks posed from the use of hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19 patients. Among the concerns raised by the scientists are the following:
- A range of gross deviations from standard research and clinical practices, such as: patients were prescribed inexplicably high daily doses of hydroxychloroquine –far higher than the FDA-recommended doses.
- There was no ethics review.
- The number of patients reportedly from Australia far exceeded the number of patients in the Australian government database;.
- Gross misrepresentation of the numbers of deaths in Australia.
- “Both the number of cases and deaths [the claimed 40% deaths in Africa], and the details provide seem unlikely.”
- Refusal to identify the hospitals that contributed patient data.
- The ratios of patients who received chloroquine (49 %) to those who received hydroxychloroquine (50% ) are implausible; in Australia chloroquine is not available without special government authorization."
So, you were saying?
Despite the retraction you mentioned, the USA and many other developed countries in Europe (and elsewhere) have issued strong warnings against using HCQ. Clearly you disagree with those decisions, and that is your right.
Sorry man, my family’s moving to a new house on August 1st, and I’ve got a ton of packing to do, so I’m gonna have to hit the “pause” button in this debate. Would be happy to debate more but this is eating up too much of my time. Cheers.
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If you test positive chances are you wont need any treatment. The vast majority dont, if I had problems breathing I would have talked to my Dr about it. When I received my follow up call to go over what to do now that I have tested positive the nurse assured me that with the symptoms I was showing I would recover just fine with no treatment. In our county we are averaging well over 200 new cases a day, yet our overall hospitalizations due to covid are staying around 200. We have 194 deaths to date, we seem to be in the midst of a severe spike. But hospitalizations make up a small portion of the overall cases. Cases have gone up by almost 10k and deaths have gone up by about 113 over the last 7 weeks. At this time the deaths represent about 1.3% of the cases. 43% of the deaths had diabetes, 40% had cardiovascular disease, 17% had chronic lung disease and 8% had asthma. Obviously some of those patients had more than 1 comorbidity. There is not statistic for deaths that did not include any comorbidity.If I ever test positive, it's going to be the first thing I ask for.
They're definitely more effective at making $$$ for Big Pharm than some cheap, out-of-patent drug that was approved by the same FDA you cite 65 years ago, the FDA that has no problem letting patients in the US take it for other reasons than it's original anti-malarial properties.
Nothing to see here, move along:
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Fuck them, the stupid ugly botox moles.
They deserve whatever backlash they get. They have single handedly sent that state back into panic mode. Who knows how many people they infected.
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Not in OhioFor malaria and lupus, there is strong evidence that HCQ is helpful for patients who can tolerate it. But for Covid-19, the data is extremely weak (when taken as a whole) that HCQ is effective.
I'll just go ahead and concur with bluecoconuts on this one... if you want to take HCQ for Covid, you are free to do so. But please keep in mind the headline from the FDA's warning on July 1st:
FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems
FDA cautions use of hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine for COVID-19
Does not affect FDA-approved uses for malaria, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritiswww.fda.gov
The FDA has warned that the usage of HCQ "includes reports of serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure."
Especially for ppl who have some pre-existing cardiovascular conditions (high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.), please be careful with HCQ. The heart rhythm issues seem to be the most glaring concern, and the complications can be lifelong.
Remdesivir and dexamethasone have both been shown to be effective and safe in the treatment of Covid-19. Serious concerns remain about both the effectiveness and the safety of HCQ. But yeah, as bluecoconuts says, if you wish to use it anyway, it is still legal to do so.
You have no response. Keep on drinking the kool aid and keep on hating.
-Brian Williams, Matt Lauer & Rachael Maddow like this
Oh and BTW, Meghan Kelly got fired from NBC for he racially insensitive comments, not FOX
bluecoconuts
Legend
Dude, that’s just not how the medical industry works. I honestly don’t know how to make it more simple than that.
pharmacies and pharmacists do not have the authority to override a doctor. They legally cannot do that. There are so many rules and regulations and certification boards to stop this very thing.
It is illegal for a pharmacist to change and refuse a prescription from a doctor. They cannot do it. They would have their certification taken from them and be barred from working as a pharmacist. That is how it works. That is the system.
Almost all medications have some side affects, this isn’t a secret, look up any medicine in the world and add side affects to the end and search away.
I mean for fucks sake dude, use a little common sense here. What is the entire purpose of a prescription? To make sure you’re taking the right medication for you for the issues you have, so you don’t take something that’ll make your condition worse, or interfere with other medications you may be taking, etc. Why are their dosage amounts? To make sure you don’t take too much and make your condition worse.
For example, I have to be very careful with Acetaminophen, literally over the counter Tylenol. That’s literally what it is too. Why do I need to be careful? Because if you were to down an entire bottle of it you would likely go into liver failure and potentially even die. From regular ass store bought Tylenol. I have a weaker liver thanks to contracting TB in the Army, and thus have to completely avoid it as much as possible to not put too much stress on my liver.
This complete misunderstanding of medicine and the medical field is just.. I don’t know what to say, you’re inventing issues that don’t exist, and then getting mad. That’s just it.
If you don’t believe me, call your doctor right now and ask him yourself. Please do.
Because I’ve noticed I’m seeing a lot of bitching and moaning, and when I say “hey, call your doctor” people don’t seem to want to. Are we children who can’t call the doctor or are we adults? If you want to take it call your doctor and ask. I promise, if someone arrears you, I personally will post your bail and cover your legal fees.
12intheBox
Legend
I’m not sure you are right on this point. I believe pharmacies can refuse to fill even valid prescriptions.
I’m itching to get deeper into this topic of HCQ because I think the topic is fascinating. How much control should social media have over its own content? When doctors disagree, is it appropriate to censor the dissenting opinion. I want to weigh in but it’s a lengthy topic and I just haven’t had time. Hopefully tonight.
A good friend of mine has Covid and feels like shit right now. She is not in the hospital, she is holed up in her home - and one of her kids now has a fever.
Also - Herman Cain just passed from Covid.
A lot to say on all of this but not enough time.
Stay safe and stay civil.
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