Covid 19 thread

[Mackeyser]

I jumped in to talk about the POV of those who feel others are putting them at risk. I'm not talking about the POV of the greater good, and the world getting rid of a virus if everyone would just do A, B & C and stop being selfish.

I honestly don't want this to come across as harsh or cold, but if an adult is being put at risk(from Covid) because of the lifestyle and forced exposures of family or people you live with...that has nothing to do with the decisions of the general public outside of your home. That is why adults shaming what other adults are doing in the general population(not wearing masks) rubs me the wrong way.

My ex wife who has my kids 80% of the time is a respiratory therapist in a Banner hospital. I work in a grocery store. We have had those discussions about exposure to our kids(17 & 20 yrs old).

My point is that we have both accepted the fact that our children are being put at a higher risk than other kids of parents who aren't essential workers. If my ex wife was going out to bars and partying unmasked and then coming home to our kids then yeah, i will shame her harshly, but we are in control of our situation. Her and i have owned that and the kids are old enough to own it too, and my kids aren't shaming society for being too close or unmasked around mom & dad when we leave the house.

If i or my kids contract Covid it's not my fault, my ex wifes fault or the fault of the unmasked customer at the grocery store who gets in my face looking for organic fucking ginger root.
Control your situation. You do you and the ones close to you to the best of your ability.

yeah, you sorta make my point.

If the unmasked customer has it and is masked, there is very little chance you get it, even unmasked. If you're both masked, the chances dip to 1% or less.

so yeah, you do blame the unmasked because they aren't protecting you. That's the point. The masks protect others. If you're asymptomatic and have it, you're a carrier. That's the Typhoid Mary effect @flv mentioned. Can't stress it enough, the mask protects others. And, in a lot of places, Costco for instance, no mask, no entry no matter how much the Karens bitch, whine, moan and object. I appreciate that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not out there yelling at people without masks.

My point about my family is that we DO have protocols in place to mitigate the risk of spreading it. We reinforce it every day, every time, but there's only so much we can do.

I agree that folks don't need to be in groups of 10 or more. As we've seen umpteen times now, folks who have ventured out in groups, significant percentages come back positive for COVID.

My youngest has a saying, "if you're gonna be selfish, at least let it help you."

So, if folks want football (which in the grand scheme is selfish...that's me...I selfishly want football back...badly), they can mask up OR due to liability we can do this dance of asking "when can we go back to normal" like the bratty kid in the back of the family station wagon at the beginning of a long trip asking "are we there, yet?" incessantly.

So, it's mask up or don't. If we all pitch in and mask up, we MIGHT have a full football season. If the country keeps doing this dance, I'd bet real money if I did that anymore that there will be NO football. Because they can't. The bubble won't work, players aren't going to risk it and small exposures can literally result in entire teams being quarantined. It already looks like no baseball this year.

So there ya have it. Even if folks vehemently disagree, if we all want sports ball, it's mask up or go a year or more without organized sports.

I dunno about you, but I'm about done watching Wiffleball leagues and grown men slapping the shit out of each other... And that's just in the Walmart parking lot...

 

[Mackeyser]

The problem is that in areas where we opened early, namely Arizona, Texas and Florida are all experiencing spikes.

AZ lead the world in new cases last week only be be eclipsed by Florida this week.

In many places, there is no social distancing, no masking...nothing.

There is no chance we see outcomes like in other countries. It's almost like we're belligerently trying to keep this thing going like the wave at a football game in the 90s...

 

[dieterbrock]

Control your situation. You do you and the ones close to you to the best of your ability.

Cheers to both of you for nailing it IMO.
For me? I hate wearing the mask & have my doubts about the effectiveness of it, BUT I comply with all of the rules in place regarding it.
At this point we know what we need to do for our own safety and that of our family/loved ones. Assess the risks of each situation, and plan accordingly

 

[12intheBox]

this is true if you are the customer. It’s different if you are an employee in the shop, or a delivery driver to that shop, or an emt or cop responding to a call to that shop or any other job that requires you to go in.

you do you and I’ll do me sounds great on paper - but we have found ourselves facing a situation that calls for cooperation and mutual sacrifice.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

The problem is that in areas where we opened early, namely Arizona, Texas and Florida are all experiencing spikes.

AZ lead the world in new cases last week only be be eclipsed by Florida this week.

In many places, there is no social distancing, no masking...nothing.

There is no chance we see outcomes like in other countries. It's almost like we're belligerently trying to keep this thing going like the wave at a football game in the 90s...

Or it’s just what you get when you have 50 states with different ideologies and ideologies that center around personal liberties

Places like AZ and Florida, Texas etc are going to reap what they sow, higher cases more infections, and it may be herd immunity in the end

Places like California who went super strict will get the same dose of reality when they open up more. Santa Barbara had the most cases recently - 30, and that’s gonna go up the more they open up.

Let’s be clear, there is no right or wrong way to deal with this shit, it’s here and it’s not going away. Every cou try is different and everyone has handled it differently - same results. You can pretend to have control but you do not.

America is America - we are a stubborn independent people. Note to self - stay clear of AZ and Florida for the time being

 

[12intheBox]

Or it’s just what you get when you have 50 states with different ideologies and ideologies that center around personal liberties

Places like AZ and Florida, Texas etc are going to reap what they sow, higher cases more infections, and it may be herd immunity in the end

Places like California who went super strict will get the same dose of reality when they open up more. Santa Barbara had the most cases recently - 30, and that’s gonna go up the more they open up.

Let’s be clear, there is no right or wrong way to deal with this shit, it’s here and it’s not going away. Every cou try is different and everyone has handled it differently - same results. You can pretend to have control but you do not.

Many countries have handled it differently - but not with the same results at all - drastically different results. And this is the point.

There is a direct cause and effect relationship between the way we battle this and how many people die. We talked about this a month ago about whether other countries were irrelevant.

I’ll concede that it is difficult to trust numbers from other countries, heck, its difficult to trust numbers from the US.

People die of COVID or they die with COVID - people are or are not tested, etc - statistics are generally a mess and this is no exception.

But at the same time, we have to use some data to evaluate what works and what doesn’t.

Compare South Korea with Sweden. Vastly different approaches and vastly different results.

As to the US, if you let the states each just run themselves with no real federal mandates, then yes, we are going to see huge levels of variation between the states. What we are seeing is that the states who opened up early are now getting hammered. It appears that how we handle this epidemic does, in fact, matter.

And trying to talk about this without getting into politics is difficult, but I believe there is a place for the federal government to intervene in situations like this. We aren’t just 50 states, we are United. While I generally believe in more State autonomy, there are times when we need a unified response and this - imo - was one of them.

 

[12intheBox]

View: https://twitter.com/behrooz_hm/status/1273979777666301956?s=20

 

[dieterbrock]

Many countries have handled it differently - but not with the same results at all - drastically different results. And this is the point.

There is a direct cause and effect relationship between the way we battle this and how many people die. We talked about this a month ago about whether other countries were irrelevant.

I’ll concede that it is difficult to trust numbers from other countries, heck, its difficult to trust numbers from the US.

People die of COVID or they die with COVID - people are or are not tested, etc - statistics are generally a mess and this is no exception.

But at the same time, we have to use some data to evaluate what works and what doesn’t.

Compare South Korea with Sweden. Vastly different approaches and vastly different results.

As to the US, if you let the states each just run themselves with no real federal mandates, then yes, we are going to see huge levels of variation between the states. What we are seeing is that the states who opened up early are now getting hammered. It appears that how we handle this epidemic does, in fact, matter.

And trying to talk about this without getting into politics is difficult, but I believe there is a place for the federal government to intervene in situations like this. We aren’t just 50 states, we are United. While I generally believe in more State autonomy, there are times when we need a unified response and this - imo - was one of them.

And if you take NYC/NJ out of the USA statistics, we are far below many if not all countries.
The amount of time spending comparing apples to oranges is wasted energy.
And yes, politics doesn't belong in this, particularly when a suggestion of a "federal mandate" is brought up. It couldnt/wouldnt happen under any administration.

 

[Mackeyser]

And if you take NYC/NJ out of the USA statistics, we are far below many if not all countries.
The amount of time spending comparing apples to oranges is wasted energy.
And yes, politics doesn't belong in this, particularly when a suggestion of a "federal mandate" is brought up. It couldnt/wouldnt happen under any administration.

That's not true. FL is only showing like 3300 deaths, but they've misclassified over 4k deaths as pneumonia.

Other states are doing this as well.

Bottom line is this. All this freedom dogma that is divorced from science is gonna make us lose football this year.

We could have had it, but we won't because people are too selfish to allow us to have nice things.

And you're damn right that I'm gonna blame the selfish ones when I'm sitting around in September wishing we could have football this year.

It wasn't that long ago that we banded together as a nation, literally turned every industry to a war effort and was one of the only countries in world history to win a war on two fronts. Ever. Everyone was all in. Scrap metal drives, rubber drives, shared sacrifice at home and abroad.

Now, in order to save hundreds of thousands of lives, we can't even get people to wear a bit of cloth on their faces for a few months.

I don't think people truly grasp how far we've fallen as a people. And selfishness knows no political ideology. We've seen it around the world from people of all stripes.

Makes me sad. I thought when push came to shove, we were better than this and we just...aren't.

 

[oldnotdead]

I just got a call this morning from my best friend's family. My buddy Ron has been my best friend since 1970 when we were both corpsmen flying dustoffs in Nam. Like me he survived multiple shootdowns and crashes. He died of COVID-19 yesterday. He was high risk and got sick over the weekend. His niece said they know when he got sick because he only went out once a week to do shopping. He had come home the previous Wednesday and complained to his niece about all the people coughing and not wearing masks. He wore a mask but like so most of us it wasn't N95 rated. He came home took a shower, laundered his clothes, and cleaned all the groceries. All that and he still got sick 3 days later.

This isn't about civil liberties. This is about life and death. Some people have said he should have had his groceries delivered. Well he barely could feed himself much less pay for deliveries. But it shouldn't have come down to that. For god's sake people protect yourselves and protect those around you. Wear a mask and take precautions to safeguard yourselves and in doing so safeguard those around you.

 

[12intheBox]

@oldnotdead - I’m sorry. Thanks to you and Ron for putting it on the line for us. I wish I could say more. This situation sucks.

 

[OldSchool]

The problem is that in areas where we opened early, namely Arizona, Texas and Florida are all experiencing spikes.

Yes and no, they're also testing a hell of a lot more people than they were before like in Arizona and Florida where anybody can be tested. Also per those states most of the people testing positive are asymptomatic and in their 30's.

 

[1maGoh]

That's not true. FL is only showing like 3300 deaths, but they've misclassified over 4k deaths as pneumonia.

Other states are doing this as well.

Bottom line is this. All this freedom dogma that is divorced from science is gonna make us lose football this year.

We could have had it, but we won't because people are too selfish to allow us to have nice things.

And you're damn right that I'm gonna blame the selfish ones when I'm sitting around in September wishing we could have football this year.

It wasn't that long ago that we banded together as a nation, literally turned every industry to a war effort and was one of the only countries in world history to win a war on two fronts. Ever. Everyone was all in. Scrap metal drives, rubber drives, shared sacrifice at home and abroad.

Now, in order to save hundreds of thousands of lives, we can't even get people to wear a bit of cloth on their faces for a few months.

I don't think people truly grasp how far we've fallen as a people. And selfishness knows no political ideology. We've seen it around the world from people of all stripes.

Makes me sad. I thought when push came to shove, we were better than this and we just...aren't.

Without an ounce of contrariness, jackassery, or disbelief in my question I want to ask this: How do we know they were misclassified?

 

[OldSchool]

Without an ounce of contrariness, jackassery, or disbelief in my question I want to ask this: How do we know they were misclassified?

Random reports say some states are over classifying cases and some say they're under classifying cases. All depends on who you listen to.

 

[Memento]

I'm so sorry for your loss, @oldnotdead . It's tough to lose a friend like that.

Speaking to all from the perspective of a Covid-vulnerable person who lives in a Covid-vulnerable household? Just take all the precautions that have been laid out in front of you. It's not worth even one human life.

 

[oldnotdead]

People handle stress differently. I remember one night sitting in the back of my current "dust off" having a brew with Ron. He looked at me and asked if he thought we were going to survive to go back "to the world". I remember not answering right away and telling him if we do we won't be the same guys that we were coming in.

He returned to his religious roots and became a very righteous man, kind, generous and forgiving. He was a player and drinker when he went in. He joined and I was drafted. I fought to be a medic he tried to get out of being one and wanted to join the riverine forces. When I got out I returned to my hippie roots. Let my hair grow out and laid around with the wine and women.

What we are seeing is a society under stress. People are in flux, and all this demonstrating is partially a result of that stress, which began with COVID and has spread into the civil unrest, on both sides. The same type of polarization that this country has experienced more than once. As a college student, I had screaming arguments with my father who kicked me out with "love it or leave it", calling me an anarchist. When I got home my father who was never one to wear his emotions on his sleeve hugged me and cried.

My point in relating all this is that I don't for a minute believe this country will ever be the same again. We need to find our new norm and that will take years, perhaps decades. I accept the fact that this country will never again be the one that I became "comfortable" with and that I probably will not live long enough to see where goes. But I do know that until mutual respect becomes the norm there will forever be an undercurrent of turmoil.

Corona Virus has been our wakeup call. The civil unrest is a call to action. This is different than the 60's. This time the stakes are immeasurably higher. This time its about our personal life and death and about the life and death of us as a nation. Mutual respect is the only way we can survive this. I'm saying to you my friends the same thing I told Ron. Between Corona and the protests, we will never be the same people we were before. That is what stress does to people. It lays bare our strengths as well as our weaknesses.

 

[kurtfaulk]

.

if this guy was alive today he would be having a field day.

i didn't know whether to laugh or be horrified with this monologue. of course i was laughing all the way through. of course what he's saying is true, the more we try to protect ourselves from germs the easier it will be for new germs to have their way with us.



.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I just got a call this morning from my best friend's family. My buddy Ron has been my best friend since 1970 when we were both corpsmen flying dustoffs in Nam. Like me he survived multiple shootdowns and crashes. He died of COVID-19 yesterday. He was high risk and got sick over the weekend. His niece said they know when he got sick because he only went out once a week to do shopping. He had come home the previous Wednesday and complained to his niece about all the people coughing and not wearing masks. He wore a mask but like so most of us it wasn't N95 rated. He came home took a shower, laundered his clothes, and cleaned all the groceries. All that and he still got sick 3 days later.

This isn't about civil liberties. This is about life and death. Some people have said he should have had his groceries delivered. Well he barely could feed himself much less pay for deliveries. But it shouldn't have come down to that. For god's sake people protect yourselves and protect those around you. Wear a mask and take precautions to safeguard yourselves and in doing so safeguard those around you.

Sorry for your loss brother, and thanks to both you and Ron for your service.

I almost made a post yesterday early afternoon about how Veterans are probably a more vulnerable class of people than many realize due to our lifestyles. Most of us smoked, most of us were doing bad things to our lungs, especially when you went overseas. Exhausts and all sorts of other fumes, burn pits, agent orange, etc. War destroys people inside and out, even those who make it home without having to shed blood, and since we don't take care of our Veterans, it makes them at risk for things like this.