Covid 19 thread

[dieterbrock]

View attachment 38024
Cases have exploded. Deaths are trending back up to 1000 per day.

The USA has “flattened the curve”? You forgot your blue font again.

Deborah Birx has expressed privately her opinion that many schools should not reopen, but she’s afraid to say so publicly.

Yes, the US flattened the curve. Look at what you posted. From April to june, what happened?
I never said "has flattened"
I clearly said "had flattened"
Maybe if you werent so invested in just disagreeing with me, and read what I actually wrote, you could discuss this in a civil manner.
Sadly it appears you arent capable, with the shouting, expletives and insults you choose to use.

 

[dieterbrock]

i think he's confusing the daily chart with the cumulative chart. getting the cases down to 20,000 per day is not flattening the curve, it's still ramping it up.

Good lord, I never said we are currently flattened. I said we "had" flattened. Does anyone actually read a post before responding?

 

[Mackeyser]

The US has not flattened the curve. The downturn coincides directly to when HHS was put in charge of the count as opposed to the CDC.

I call bs on that convenient coincidence.

 

[thirteen28]

Research from Loughborough and Sheffield Universities suggests new approach to recording COVID deaths

A new study by academics at the Universities of Loughborough and Sheffield, and economic consultants at Economic Insight, seeks to provide a more statistically robust approach to the question: “How many deaths in England and Wales are due to COVID-19?”.

www.lboro.ac.uk

 

[-X-]

The US has not flattened the curve. The downturn coincides directly to when HHS was put in charge of the count as opposed to the CDC.

I call bs on that convenient coincidence.

That’s just hospitalization numbers. All States are still reporting infection numbers to the CDC. it reduces confusion and duplication of reporting.

 

[-X-]

I get being frustrated with the situation - I think we all are. But I’m not sure what you are saying here ....

“people die” - Yeah - and we try to prolong life as much as possible. Death comes for us all but we don’t go down without a fight.

When 80% of the deaths are people over 65, and the vast majority of those are people with serious underlying health conditions, and a whopping 42% of nursing home residents account for the bulk of the Covid deaths, I’m saying people die. And when the average stay in a nursing home before dying is 6-18 months, I’m saying people die.

2 million seniors die every year for various reasons. That’s 175,000 seniors a month. People die.

Over a million deaths per year from diabetes. People die

647,000 people die of heart disease every year. People die.

600,000+ cancer related deaths every year. People die.

80,000+ people die of alcohol related diseases every year. People die.

60-80,000 flu deaths per year. People die.

Sounds callous, right? Saying people die? We should avoid death if at all possible, but we can’t. Yet here we are, thinking we can control a virus whose aim it is to kill. Just like influenza. For which, by the way, there is no cure, and the vaccine for which is sketchy at best (it literally gave me the flu). But somehow we’re gonna come up with a cure or vaccine for this one particular coronavirus and not the flu or cold that preceded it? Please.

I don’t like it anymore than you do. I’ve lost relatives, friends, pets, and I’ll likely lose my mom this year too. It sucks. But it happens. And to think that we, the awesome human race, are more powerful than nature and that we can beat this thing’s ass with a high school student’s science fair project and by strapping masks on healthy people is foolish. That’s my opinion, and I won’t walk it back. I don’t trust the numbers, I don’t trust politicians, I don’t trust “the science” that’s constantly changing and dishing out contradicting studies, and I don’t trust humans to be responsible enough to act in unison to mitigate the spread. People will die. There’s no getting around it.

 

[Mackeyser]

You're right. It's sad you're right, but you're right.

Edit: Had a phone appt with one of my Drs and upon hearing my symptoms, they told me to immediately self isolate pending the test results.

I got them in one day at the VA, but my county needs a week, so... yeah. So far only runny nose, scratchy and sore throat and body aches. Wearing a mask inside now as is my youngest who had the fever.

We'll see how this goes...

 

[thirteen28]

I don’t trust the numbers

I just can't imagine why ...

Local COVID-19 death certificates all show multiple co-morbidities - Alachua Chronicle

15 of the 17 reports list COVID-19 as the primary cause of death. The reports had an average of 4.6 contributory factors, and none had fewer than 3 contributory factors.

alachuachronicle.com

"This “Description of incident” from one of the fall patients (edited to remove some information that could identify the woman) is an example of a death that appears to be “with” COVID: The woman “suffered an unwitnessed fall on July 8… imaging studies showed subarachnoid hemorrhage and subdural hematoma… While in the hospital, [She] underwent routine testing for COVID-19 and was found to be positive on the same day, although she was asymptomatic… [She] remained asymptomatic and required no breathing treatments, nor did she display any respiratory distress… [She] was transferred into a COVID-19 bed at [hospice] on July 10… remained at the center until her death on July 12. Her medical history included anemia, dementia, hyperlipidemia, hypertension, hypothyroid, and multiple falls.”

Another case at Shands, a 35-year-old male, was listed as a Dade County death from COVID-19: “[The decedent] was working on the roof of a home in Middleburg on 5/28. It started to rain and the decedent and his coworkers stopped working. Bystanders in the neighborhood and the workers on the roof observed a flash of lighting and heard a loud explosion, and several workers were thrown off of the roof. Immediately following the lighting strike, a worker on the roof observed the decedent collapse, fall off of the roof, and land facedown on grass. The decedent’s muscles were reported to be contracted and shaking, and caused the decedent’s body to roll over onto his backside. It was also reported by the workers that the decedent’s eyeballs were rolled back into his skull. Bystanders in the neighborhood observed the decedent on the ground, called 911, and started CPR until EMS arrived on scene. Following the lightning strike, the workers observed a large hole on the roof that appeared burnt. According to medical records, the decedent was transported via EMS to Orange Park Medical Center and was found to have spinal fractures with spinal cord transection, a skull base fracture, and pulmonary contusions. He was transferred on the same day to UF Health Shands Hospital for further management and was admitted to the surgical intensive care unit on mechanical ventilation. He tested positive for the COVID-19 virus on 5/29 and was transferred to the medical intensive care unit. In addition to acute hypoxic respiratory failure and neurogenic shock, he was found to have a subarachnoid hemorrhage, bilateral pulmonary contusions, C3 & C7 spinous process fractures, complete T4 spinal cord transection, a skull base fracture. Trauma surgery, neurosurgery, and neurocritical care continued to follow the decedent and the decedent’s condition did not improve. Examinations were consistent with severe hypoxic brain injury and his prognosis was poor. The decedent’s family elected to transition to full comfort measures on 6/9 and he was pronounced dead on 6/9.”"

 

[badnews]

When 80% of the deaths are people over 65, and the vast majority of those are people with serious underlying health conditions, and a whopping 42% of nursing home residents account for the bulk of the Covid deaths, I’m saying people die. And when the average stay in a nursing home before dying is 6-18 months, I’m saying people die.

2 million seniors die every year for various reasons. That’s 175,000 seniors a month. People die.

Over a million deaths per year from diabetes. People die

647,000 people die of heart disease every year. People die.

600,000+ cancer related deaths every year. People die.

80,000+ people die of alcohol related diseases every year. People die.

60-80,000 flu deaths per year. People die.

Sounds callous, right? Saying that people die? We should avoid death if at all possible, but we can’t. Yet here we are, thinking we can control a virus whose aim it is to kill. Just like influenza. For which, by the way, there is no cure, and the vaccine for which is sketchy at best (it literally gave me the flu). But somehow we’re gonna come up with a cure or vaccine for this one particular coronavirus and not the flu or cold that preceded it? Please.

I don’t like it anymore than you do. I’ve lost relatives, friends, pets, and I’ll likely lose my mom this year too. It sucks. But it happens. And to think that we, the awesome human race, is more powerful than nature and that we can beat this thing’s ass with a high school student’s science fair project and by strapping masks on healthy people is foolish. That’s my opinion, and I won’t walk it back. I don’t trust the numbers, I don’t trust politicians, I don’t trust “the science” that’s constantly changing and dishing out contradicting studies, and I don’t trust humans to be responsible enough to act in unison to mitigate the spread. People will die. There’s no getting around it.

You are right, good post.
There is no getting around it.
But there is limiting it.

Maybe I am the callous one, because my concern isn't for the seniors in nursing homes. Not really. I don't want them to die, I don't want their loved ones to grieve, but that's what life is supposed to be, right? You grow old, get sick and die, like your post describes so well.

I am thinking about those 38 year old mother's and wives with underlying conditions.

I don't need anyone to agree on the cause, the source, the timeline, the numbers or the politics of Covid. I only need them to agree to acknowledge there is a deadly pandemic ongoing, to wear a mask in public, to stay 6 feet away, to stay home if they have symptoms. To agree to help others try to avoid getting it.

We don't have the means to completely isolate ourselves or we would. We haven't been to a restaurant or movie or bar or any business other than grocery stores, gas stations and drive thru places, and those as little as possible, since Feb.

It sucks so much.
We have worn masks since the beginning. We are sick of them too.... but not about to take them off. There are lots of conspiracy theorists in the Ozarks, and for months the people around us would talk shit and cough in our direction for us wearing masks while shopping for groceries. We had to completely quit going to wal mart until they mandated masks. The people were just too dangerously ignorant. Saying "nice burqa" and dumb shit like that.

Like all I need is for other people to have some fucking common courtesy, basic decency and a limited understanding of the reality we are all living in.

My concerns are purely selfish and yet I need everyone to get on board and be as serious about not spreading this shit as we are about not getting it.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

I just can't imagine why ...

Local COVID-19 death certificates all show multiple co-morbidities - Alachua Chronicle

15 of the 17 reports list COVID-19 as the primary cause of death. The reports had an average of 4.6 contributory factors, and none had fewer than 3 contributory factors.

alachuachronicle.com

"This “Description of incident” from one of the fall patients (edited to remove some information that could identify the woman) is an example of a death that appears to be “with” COVID: The woman “suffered an unwitnessed fall on July 8… imaging studies showed subarachnoid hemorrhage and subdural hematoma… While in the hospital, [She] underwent routine testing for COVID-19 and was found to be positive on the same day, although she was asymptomatic… [She] remained asymptomatic and required no breathing treatments, nor did she display any respiratory distress… [She] was transferred into a COVID-19 bed at [hospice] on July 10… remained at the center until her death on July 12. Her medical history included anemia, dementia, hyperlipidemia, hypertension, hypothyroid, and multiple falls.”

Another case at Shands, a 35-year-old male, was listed as a Dade County death from COVID-19: “[The decedent] was working on the roof of a home in Middleburg on 5/28. It started to rain and the decedent and his coworkers stopped working. Bystanders in the neighborhood and the workers on the roof observed a flash of lighting and heard a loud explosion, and several workers were thrown off of the roof. Immediately following the lighting strike, a worker on the roof observed the decedent collapse, fall off of the roof, and land facedown on grass. The decedent’s muscles were reported to be contracted and shaking, and caused the decedent’s body to roll over onto his backside. It was also reported by the workers that the decedent’s eyeballs were rolled back into his skull. Bystanders in the neighborhood observed the decedent on the ground, called 911, and started CPR until EMS arrived on scene. Following the lightning strike, the workers observed a large hole on the roof that appeared burnt. According to medical records, the decedent was transported via EMS to Orange Park Medical Center and was found to have spinal fractures with spinal cord transection, a skull base fracture, and pulmonary contusions. He was transferred on the same day to UF Health Shands Hospital for further management and was admitted to the surgical intensive care unit on mechanical ventilation. He tested positive for the COVID-19 virus on 5/29 and was transferred to the medical intensive care unit. In addition to acute hypoxic respiratory failure and neurogenic shock, he was found to have a subarachnoid hemorrhage, bilateral pulmonary contusions, C3 & C7 spinous process fractures, complete T4 spinal cord transection, a skull base fracture. Trauma surgery, neurosurgery, and neurocritical care continued to follow the decedent and the decedent’s condition did not improve. Examinations were consistent with severe hypoxic brain injury and his prognosis was poor. The decedent’s family elected to transition to full comfort measures on 6/9 and he was pronounced dead on 6/9.”"

Sounds like Pigeon talk to me …

 

[-X-]

You're right. It's sad you're right, but you're right.

Edit: Had a phone appt with one of my Drs and upon hearing my symptoms, they told me to immediately self isolate pending the test results.

I got them in one day at the VA, but my county needs a week, so... yeah. So far only runny nose, scratchy and sore throat and body aches. Wearing a mask inside now as is my youngest who had the fever.

We'll see how this goes...

You'll be alright. You're a strong dude. It makes me wonder if I have had it already sometimes, because I had a stretch of a few days where I didn't feel right (same symptoms as you). I was tested once already, and it was negative, but I don't even know anymore.

 

[Mackeyser]

You'll be alright. You're a strong dude. It makes me wonder if I have had it already sometimes, because I had a stretch of a few days where I didn't feel right (same symptoms as you). I was tested once already, and it was negative, but I don't even know anymore.

I wish... had multiple pneumonias including one that was bad enough that Dr told me once I was on the mend that I should have been dead, have asthma and a suppressed immune system due to Crohn's.

I'm really not worried about my youngest. They're 20, healthy and have a strong immune system.

Me? Honestly, it really will be a coin flip. My family knows what's up and they know the drill, so no one's freaking out, but we all know how we have to play this. Just was really hoping not to have to... Who knows... maybe I catch a break with my health for a change. That'd be really nice.

 

[-X-]

You are right, good post.
There is no getting around it.
But there is limiting it.

Maybe I am the callous one, because my concern isn't for the seniors in nursing homes. Not really. I don't want them to die, I don't want their loved ones to grieve, but that's what life is supposed to be, right? You grow old, get sick and die, like your post describes so well.

I am thinking about those 38 year old mother's and wives with underlying conditions.

I don't need anyone to agree on the cause, the source, the timeline, the numbers or the politics of Covid. I only need them to agree to acknowledge there is a deadly pandemic ongoing, to wear a mask in public, to stay 6 feet away, to stay home if they have symptoms. To agree to help others try to avoid getting it.

We don't have the means to completely isolate ourselves or we would. We haven't been to a restaurant or movie or bar or any business other than grocery stores, gas stations and drive thru places, and those as little as possible, since Feb.

It sucks so much.
We have worn masks since the beginning. We are sick of them too.... but not about to take them off. There are lots of conspiracy theorists in the Ozarks, and for months the people around us would talk shit and cough in our direction for us wearing masks while shopping for groceries. We had to completely quit going to wal mart until they mandated masks. The people were just too dangerously ignorant. Saying "nice burqa" and dumb shit like that.

Like all I need is for other people to have some fucking common courtesy, basic decency and a limited understanding of the reality we are all living in.

My concerns are purely selfish and yet I need everyone to get on board and be as serious about not spreading this shit as we are about not getting it.

I agree with all that. I pulled up to a QT station just this morning (QT is a gas station/convenient store/kitchen kinda thing), and after I parked, I looked in, and there had to be - HAD TO BE - 20 people in there all not wearing masks. Not even the cashiers. It made me think to myself, "Well, shit. One of those MFers has to at least be asymptomatic." So I left and went somewhere else. I wear a mask for all the reasons you described, and said so earlier in this thread. I don't wear it for me. I just feel like being a courteous guy and to help make the other *minority* of people wearing it feel less like weirdos. It's dumb that it's come to that - where just being cautious and courteous makes you an outcast. But since there was so much disinformation early on, and the whole thing has become a political football, nobody really knows what to do or even cares enough to try. There's just so much distrust on one side, and so much fear on the other. Very little middle-ground.

 

[-X-]

I wish... had multiple pneumonias including one that was bad enough that Dr told me once I was on the mend that I should have been dead, have asthma and a suppressed immune system due to Crohn's.

I'm really not worried about my youngest. They're 20, healthy and have a strong immune system.

Me? Honestly, it really will be a coin flip. My family knows what's up and they know the drill, so no one's freaking out, but we all know how we have to play this. Just was really hoping not to have to... Who knows... maybe I catch a break with my health for a change. That'd be really nice.

Maybe you didn't hear me.

You'll. Be. Fine.
*makes witchcrafty gestures with his hands*

 

[Pancake]

Im not worried about my youngest dying from it as the science shows the chance of that is pretty low. They have a strong immune system and they are in a positive, supportive environment which science shows improves outcomes. But... I felt like shit all night and with all my issues, if I get it... it’ll be a coin flip if I make it.

And yeah, there are people out there saying that kids can’t even get it or if they do, they can’t get sick and it’s just not true.

Don't be so negative Mac. It's not a coin flip. Stay positive. I'll pray for you as will others who read your post.

 

[dieterbrock]

The US has not flattened the curve. The downturn coincides directly to when HHS was put in charge of the count as opposed to the CDC.

I call bs on that convenient coincidence.

The US most certainly had flattened the curve, from April to Early July.
After a devastating spike it does appear we are heading in a positive direction. By no means am I suggesting the curve is Currently flattened.

 

[Mackeyser]

Okay. And that period coincided with the country being shut down.

But yeah... for the next few days, I'm just gonna breathe, stay hydrated and isolated and hope this is just a cold or throat infection with really shitty timing...

 

[XXXIVwin]

Yes, the US flattened the curve. Look at what you posted. From April to june, what happened?
I never said "has flattened"
I clearly said "had flattened"
Maybe if you werent so invested in just disagreeing with me, and read what I actually wrote, you could discuss this in a civil manner.
Sadly it appears you arent capable, with the shouting, expletives and insults you choose to use.

I'm not "invested in disagreeing with you". I'd like nothing more than for us to be able to agree more. But it seems very challenging for us to find a shared sense of reality and basic facts.

As regards your use of the word "had", it was challenging to figure out what the heck you were implying. We're talking about whether or not USA schools should reopen now. So it did not seem to make sense that you would suddenly throw in a non-sequitur about what was going on 3 months ago. Plus, (admittedly being a grammar Nazi here), the use of the word "had" and the "past perfect" tense didn't make sense within the context of that sentence. So for those two reasons-- it was a non-sequitur and it did not fit grammatically-- I thought you had made a typo.

Now that I know you indeed purposefully used the word "had", I'll respond. Do I acknowledge that the USA "flattened the curve" back in April and May? Yes, of course I do. But it clearly was not enough. The EU "crushed the curve to near baseline." So it made sense that many countries felt it was worth the risk to reopen schools. But the USA merely "flattened" the curve, which was not sufficient for a safe re-opening.

As for civility? Yes, I'll acknowledge I use some expletives and ALL CAPS because I am passionate about this subject. It pains me deeply that IMHO our country has committed so many unforced errors which have led to unnecessary deaths and the destruction of our economy.

As for insults? Yes, I'll acknowledge I have crossed the line a little bit, and have tried to acknowledge it when I did so (like in my most recent post with 1328).

But really, dieter, you are the absolute last person who should lecture anyone on civility. (A few examples you have used: "you're pathetic", "coward," "be a man", "buttercup", "childish", "have an adult explain it to you".) I appreciate that you made one apology a while ago, but then after that acknowledgment, you obliterated the line again several times.

Lastly, I appreciated your "step-brothers" reference and your humor about CAPS. OTOH, when you lose your temper, it's not cool.

And yea, I'm at risk for losing my temper as well, so I am gonna try hard (again) to step away from this thread for awhile.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Good lord, I never said we are currently flattened. I said we "had" flattened. Does anyone actually read a post before responding?

did you look at the chart i posted? tell me where it "had" flattened.

.

 

[dieterbrock]

did you look at the chart i posted? tell me where it "had" flattened.

.

Look at my post 2 posts above