Bountygate
- Thread starter bluecoconuts
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JdashSTL
Pro Bowler
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Re: Re:
My guess is they wanted to continue gathering more info, we know these investigations can take awhile, and this comes a year after the NFL changes the kickoff for player safety, and they have continued fining players for hits, and changed other rules. This is their big investigation to really make teams take notice. I have a bad feeling for Williams, especially now that I know this goes back to his Washington days. I think he has to go. Lets say he gets suspended for 8 games or a full season, who runs the defense? Williams could come back after learning a lesson and move forward. Who runs the D while hes gone? We may just have to move on with some other DC.
X said:
My guess is they wanted to continue gathering more info, we know these investigations can take awhile, and this comes a year after the NFL changes the kickoff for player safety, and they have continued fining players for hits, and changed other rules. This is their big investigation to really make teams take notice. I have a bad feeling for Williams, especially now that I know this goes back to his Washington days. I think he has to go. Lets say he gets suspended for 8 games or a full season, who runs the defense? Williams could come back after learning a lesson and move forward. Who runs the D while hes gone? We may just have to move on with some other DC.
ramsince62
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Re: Re:
Let's see, this went on between 09 through 11. "They (Williams) knew it was wrong when they (he) was doing it".....OK, am I losing my mind here? Is there a defense or justification of this? If this is true then Williams actions were egregious and he must go.
Right X, they "began" investigating in 10.
X said:
Let's see, this went on between 09 through 11. "They (Williams) knew it was wrong when they (he) was doing it".....OK, am I losing my mind here? Is there a defense or justification of this? If this is true then Williams actions were egregious and he must go.
Right X, they "began" investigating in 10.
-X-
Medium-sized Lebowski
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Re: Gregg Williams.... Bounty Hunter?
I have to wonder if Fisher knew anything about this - what with his being a good friend of Williams. Plus, Fisher was on the competition committee, so if he DID know about it, and said nothing, then wow.... what a twist this is going to put on things. Obviously Fisher will never admit to knowing about it though. And hey, we all know this goes back decades. It's just very untimely that it goes public right after we hire the guy who orchestrated a program of it.
I have to wonder if Fisher knew anything about this - what with his being a good friend of Williams. Plus, Fisher was on the competition committee, so if he DID know about it, and said nothing, then wow.... what a twist this is going to put on things. Obviously Fisher will never admit to knowing about it though. And hey, we all know this goes back decades. It's just very untimely that it goes public right after we hire the guy who orchestrated a program of it.
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Re: Gregg Williams.... Bounty Hunter?
I just don't want the team to have refs looking at them extra close, which will probably happen now.
I just don't want the team to have refs looking at them extra close, which will probably happen now.
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Re: Gregg Williams.... Bounty Hunter?
If he paid for QB hits and the like - I'm not sure how bad that should be viewed. It is a constant stat they pull up on the screen. If he was paying for an injury, I don't want him here or in the league. I really don't give a shit if it goes on all the time. Pretty simple in my eyes. Fire his ass if he paid to have players injured.
If he paid for QB hits and the like - I'm not sure how bad that should be viewed. It is a constant stat they pull up on the screen. If he was paying for an injury, I don't want him here or in the league. I really don't give a shit if it goes on all the time. Pretty simple in my eyes. Fire his ass if he paid to have players injured.
-X-
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Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.
Gregg Williams’ bounty history should result in a lifetime ban
By Doug Farrar | Shutdown Corner (Yahoo Sports) – 10 minutes ago
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... 30526.html
If Roger Goodell is for real, Gregg Williams has no place in the NFL. (AP)
The vile practice of paying players to knock other players out of games, known as a "bounty system" to most and referred to as "pay for performance " by longtime defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, was thrown into the spotlight on Friday, when the NFL released a 50,000 page report indicating that with Williams as their defensive coordinator, the New Orleans Saints participated in a system that paid players cash bonuses for hits that knocked opposing players -- most notably marquee quarterbacks like Brett Favre and Kurt Warner -- from games.
When the report came out, Williams -- now the St. Louis Rams' defensive coordinator -- tried to engage in damage control with this statement:
"I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, [Saints owner Tom] Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the 'pay for performance' program while I was with the Saints. It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again."
Problem is, this wasn't something that first occurred to Williams in New Orleans. According to a report by the Washington Post, Williams had something very similar rigged up when he was the Washington Redskins' defensive coordinator from 2004 through 2007.
Three of the players described a coach who doled out thousands of dollars to Redskins defenders who measured up to Williams's scoring system for rugged play, including "kill shots" that knocked opposing teams' stars out of a game.
"You got compensated more for a kill shot than you did other hits," said one former player, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Players said compensation ranged from "hundreds to thousands of dollars," with the biggest sum any player received believed to be about $8,000.
"I never took it for anything [but] just incentive to make good, hard plays," said a current player, who requested anonymity. "But I'm pretty sure it did entice some guys to do more to a player than normal when it came to taking them out. I mean, that's cash. Let's just be honest about it.
Linebacker Philip Daniels was the only player willing to go on the record, according to the Post's Mark Maske. Daniels, who currently serves as the Redskins' director of player development, defended Williams' practices.
"I think it is wrong the way they're trying to paint [Williams]," Daniels added. "He never told us to go out there and break a guy's neck or break a guy's leg. It was all in the context of a good, hard football."
One anonymous player recalled Williams saying that "If you cut the snake's head off, the body will die."
"It was made clear that he was talking about not just running backs who turned their heads the opposite way and how they would go down, but also about other stars on offense that were the best players on that team," the player told Maske.
In the wake of the allegations against the Saints, and these subsequent revelations, two questions must be asked: First, what is to be done with Williams? Those naive enough to believe that he's the only one implementing such a system in the modern NFL would tend to side with the notion that Williams should be banned from the NFL for life, and that there is no place for such things in football.
Second: What is to be done about the "bounty" practice? Those who know the history of the NFL understand that these bounties go back decades. Former Philadelphia Eagles head coach Buddy Ryan was famous for it, and Williams now works for Rams head coach Jeff Fisher, who played and coached under Ryan. If Fisher fires Williams, can he do so with a straight face and without a hint of hypocrisy?
When the SpyGate scandal broke in 2007, ex-coach and current Fox Sports analyst Jimmy Johnson was asked about the practice that cost Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots a first-round draft pick and a total of $750,000 in fines. Johnson's response was clear, and precisely what the NFL didn't want anyone to say -- that if anyone thought that the Patriots were the only ones doing this, they must be nuts.
The bounty system is a long-held idea that has managed to escape public notice for a number of years. If Roger Goodell is as serious about player safety as he says he is, his next act must be to take Williams' punishment out of the hands of the men he works with and has known for decades. He must take this in hand and say to the world that indeed, a new and very serious sheriff in town.
Roger Goodell's next act must be to realize that Williams' apology is completely hollow, that his repugnant modus operandi will remain under other names and guises unless it is killed forever, and that removing Williams from the game on a lifetime basis is the best way to start.
Gregg Williams said it best: If you cut the snake's head off, the body will die
Gregg Williams’ bounty history should result in a lifetime ban
By Doug Farrar | Shutdown Corner (Yahoo Sports) – 10 minutes ago
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... 30526.html
If Roger Goodell is for real, Gregg Williams has no place in the NFL. (AP)
The vile practice of paying players to knock other players out of games, known as a "bounty system" to most and referred to as "pay for performance " by longtime defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, was thrown into the spotlight on Friday, when the NFL released a 50,000 page report indicating that with Williams as their defensive coordinator, the New Orleans Saints participated in a system that paid players cash bonuses for hits that knocked opposing players -- most notably marquee quarterbacks like Brett Favre and Kurt Warner -- from games.
When the report came out, Williams -- now the St. Louis Rams' defensive coordinator -- tried to engage in damage control with this statement:
"I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, [Saints owner Tom] Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the 'pay for performance' program while I was with the Saints. It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again."
Problem is, this wasn't something that first occurred to Williams in New Orleans. According to a report by the Washington Post, Williams had something very similar rigged up when he was the Washington Redskins' defensive coordinator from 2004 through 2007.
Three of the players described a coach who doled out thousands of dollars to Redskins defenders who measured up to Williams's scoring system for rugged play, including "kill shots" that knocked opposing teams' stars out of a game.
"You got compensated more for a kill shot than you did other hits," said one former player, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Players said compensation ranged from "hundreds to thousands of dollars," with the biggest sum any player received believed to be about $8,000.
"I never took it for anything [but] just incentive to make good, hard plays," said a current player, who requested anonymity. "But I'm pretty sure it did entice some guys to do more to a player than normal when it came to taking them out. I mean, that's cash. Let's just be honest about it.
Linebacker Philip Daniels was the only player willing to go on the record, according to the Post's Mark Maske. Daniels, who currently serves as the Redskins' director of player development, defended Williams' practices.
"I think it is wrong the way they're trying to paint [Williams]," Daniels added. "He never told us to go out there and break a guy's neck or break a guy's leg. It was all in the context of a good, hard football."
One anonymous player recalled Williams saying that "If you cut the snake's head off, the body will die."
"It was made clear that he was talking about not just running backs who turned their heads the opposite way and how they would go down, but also about other stars on offense that were the best players on that team," the player told Maske.
In the wake of the allegations against the Saints, and these subsequent revelations, two questions must be asked: First, what is to be done with Williams? Those naive enough to believe that he's the only one implementing such a system in the modern NFL would tend to side with the notion that Williams should be banned from the NFL for life, and that there is no place for such things in football.
Second: What is to be done about the "bounty" practice? Those who know the history of the NFL understand that these bounties go back decades. Former Philadelphia Eagles head coach Buddy Ryan was famous for it, and Williams now works for Rams head coach Jeff Fisher, who played and coached under Ryan. If Fisher fires Williams, can he do so with a straight face and without a hint of hypocrisy?
When the SpyGate scandal broke in 2007, ex-coach and current Fox Sports analyst Jimmy Johnson was asked about the practice that cost Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots a first-round draft pick and a total of $750,000 in fines. Johnson's response was clear, and precisely what the NFL didn't want anyone to say -- that if anyone thought that the Patriots were the only ones doing this, they must be nuts.
The bounty system is a long-held idea that has managed to escape public notice for a number of years. If Roger Goodell is as serious about player safety as he says he is, his next act must be to take Williams' punishment out of the hands of the men he works with and has known for decades. He must take this in hand and say to the world that indeed, a new and very serious sheriff in town.
Roger Goodell's next act must be to realize that Williams' apology is completely hollow, that his repugnant modus operandi will remain under other names and guises unless it is killed forever, and that removing Williams from the game on a lifetime basis is the best way to start.
Gregg Williams said it best: If you cut the snake's head off, the body will die
JdashSTL
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Re: Re:
Its the pressure to WIN. Thats why you hear about this being common throughout the league. in 09 they had to get through Warner and Favre (starr QBs) to get to the SB, they had to do whatever it took to win those games, and they felt like they had to to try and take those QBs out of the game. If the NFL just came out and told the public about everything that goes on behind the scenes there would probably be a lot of public outrage.
ramsince62 said:
Its the pressure to WIN. Thats why you hear about this being common throughout the league. in 09 they had to get through Warner and Favre (starr QBs) to get to the SB, they had to do whatever it took to win those games, and they felt like they had to to try and take those QBs out of the game. If the NFL just came out and told the public about everything that goes on behind the scenes there would probably be a lot of public outrage.
Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.
Doug Farrar wants Williams to be forced to watch the Star Wars prequels back to back?
Doug Farrar wants Williams to be forced to watch the Star Wars prequels back to back?
JdashSTL
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Re: Gregg Williams.... Bounty Hunter?
Knowing what we know now about concussions and how the league has taken extra precautions for it, how can people be ok with players payed to knock opponents out of the game? Cant that be looked at as "intent to injure?"
RamFan503 said:
Knowing what we know now about concussions and how the league has taken extra precautions for it, how can people be ok with players payed to knock opponents out of the game? Cant that be looked at as "intent to injure?"
-X-
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Re: Gregg Williams.... Bounty Hunter?
Interesting tweet from Trey Wingo just now:
@wingoz
Beyond the health and safety issues of what the Saints did, paying players beyond their contracts is a violation of the Salary Cap.
Interesting tweet from Trey Wingo just now:
@wingoz
Beyond the health and safety issues of what the Saints did, paying players beyond their contracts is a violation of the Salary Cap.
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Re: Gregg Williams.... Bounty Hunter?
Well let's be fair, I don't think Bradford should have bought any dinners last year, except for Dahl. Everyone else should have been paying for his meals.
JdashSTL said:
Well let's be fair, I don't think Bradford should have bought any dinners last year, except for Dahl. Everyone else should have been paying for his meals.
Re: Doug Farrar seeks the ultimate punishment.
Well, that's half right.
X said:
Well, that's half right.
