Aaron Donald’s contract situation

[Akrasian]

That's besides the point. The Patriots knew which players they needed to keep. The fact that they were able to make a good deal with Gronk doesn't change their strategy.

Actually, it does. They did not go into negotiations with Gronk saying "we will sign him, no matter what". Rather, they signed him when it made financial sense for the team - which it did, since he was a bargain compared to his on the field production. Do you really think they would have given him anything he wanted?

If you think we're "overpaying" Donald, then I'm wasting my time with this conversation.

That is possible, then. I am a little skeptical that any DT, or even any defensive player, is worth 10% of the cap. I could be wrong, so a bit over for a special player is fine. But defensive players can be schemed around more so than offensive players. And 12-14% for a non QB is almost certainly a bad investment, since football is a team game, with 22 starters and a need for a large number of backups getting significant time even without injuries. It can be gotten around, if the team doesn't have a number of expensive players either already or coming due for new contracts. But that's not the Rams. They are going to have cap issues soon, especially if they give a record contract to a non QB to a DT.

 

[norcalramfan]

That's not really an issue. We have ways around it. The easiest way is the signing bonus. For accounting purposes, it's prorated, but the money is paid upfront.

My nephew signed as a minor leaguer three weeks ago. He was happy until he saw what Uncle Sam does to signing bonuses.

 

[XXXIVwin]

As I said, 22 is where I value him.

OK. To me, the key point is where one side says, “I refuse to go beyond this number.” I should have worded my question more strongly perhaps— I’m not looking for the “value” number, I’m interested in the “drop-dead highest number you could stand” number.

I am OK with Rams management saying to AD, “If you push for 22.1, we are prepared to have you sit out the entire season. Nothing above 22.”

Ugh. Sure hope signing AD doesn’t make it harder to sign Peters...

 

[jrry32]

OK. To me, the key point is where one side says, “I refuse to go beyond this number.” I should have worded my question more strongly perhaps— I’m not looking for the “value” number, I’m interested in the “drop-dead highest number you could stand” number.

I am OK with Rams management saying to AD, “If you push for 22.1, we are prepared to have you sit out the entire season. Nothing above 22.”

Ugh. Sure hope signing AD doesn’t make it harder to sign Peters...

It all depends on how the contract is structured.

 

[jrry32]

Actually, it does. They did not go into negotiations with Gronk saying "we will sign him, no matter what". Rather, they signed him when it made financial sense for the team - which it did, since he was a bargain compared to his on the field production. Do you really think they would have given him anything he wanted?

They gave Gronk the richest TE contract in history in 2012. Here's what the article from the time says about it:
"It is a stunning move by the team for a player entering just his third NFL season, but the Patriots recognized the game-breaking skills of the record-setting Gronkowski."

Note how it doesn't say, "The Patriots got themselves one hell of a bargain." For all we know, we'll be looking back in six years and say, "We got Donald for a bargain."

That is possible, then. I am a little skeptical that any DT, or even any defensive player, is worth 10% of the cap. I could be wrong, so a bit over for a special player is fine. But defensive players can be schemed around more so than offensive players. And 12-14% for a non QB is almost certainly a bad investment, since football is a team game, with 22 starters and a need for a large number of backups getting significant time even without injuries. It can be gotten around, if the team doesn't have a number of expensive players either already or coming due for new contracts. But that's not the Rams. They are going to have cap issues soon, especially if they give a record contract to a non QB to a DT.

You can't scheme around Aaron Donald. You can only hope your guy is good enough to slow him down.

 

[Akrasian]

They gave Gronk the richest TE contract in history in 2012. Here's what the article from the time says about it:
"It is a stunning move by the team for a player entering just his third NFL season, but the Patriots recognized the game-breaking skills of the record-setting Gronkowski."

Note how it doesn't say, "The Patriots got themselves one hell of a bargain." For all we know, we'll be looking back in six years and say, "We got Donald for a bargain."

They gave Gronk a great TE contract (still not close to what AD has been offered) because he was catching passes like a top WR. The year before he had 1300 yards and led the league in TDs with 17. If he were officially a WR nobody would have blinked at his contract extension.

You can't scheme around Aaron Donald. You can only hope your guy is good enough to slow him down.

Scheming around implies trying to slow him down. Which teams did at times. It's not like AD was sacking players, or hurrying QBs, or even getting to the running backs going right past him, on every down. If he were actually Superman, sure pay him whatever. He's a great player - but he has limitations, and because of that, what he actually accomplishes on the field given his position is limited too. He sometimes gets to the QB - more often than an average DT, but let's not exaggerate what he does. He doesn't play every down, he sometimes is held up at the line, sometimes he is trying to rush the QB when it's actually another play - and yes, sometimes running backs run right past him because of that. He's a great player - he does not do everything.

Because of that, what it makes sense to pay him given the existence of a salary cap, and given that the Rams actually have other way above average players to pay, is limited.

 

[XXXIVwin]

It all depends on how the contract is structured.

Yeah... I guess. But if Eric Geller’s tweet is indeed accurate, the two sides have a major diffference regarding average $ per year.

I think ego is definitely invloved, and ego gets hung up on the one number that the public (and other players) will focus on : the average per year.

 

[jrry32]

They gave Gronk a great TE contract (still not close to what AD has been offered) because he was catching passes like a top WR. The year before he had 1300 yards and led the league in TDs with 17. If he were officially a WR nobody would have blinked at his contract extension.

You're revising history six years later using hindsight. As I said, for all we know, we'll be able to say the same thing about Donald's deal.

Scheming around implies trying to slow him down. Which teams did at times. It's not like AD was sacking players, or hurrying QBs, or even getting to the running backs going right past him, on every down. If he were actually Superman, sure pay him whatever. He's a great player - but he has limitations, and because of that, what he actually accomplishes on the field given his position is limited too. He sometimes gets to the QB - more often than an average DT, but let's not exaggerate what he does. He doesn't play every down, he sometimes is held up at the line, sometimes he is trying to rush the QB when it's actually another play - and yes, sometimes running backs run right past him because of that. He's a great player - he does not do everything.

Because of that, what it makes sense to pay him given the existence of a salary cap, and given that the Rams actually have other way above average players to pay, is limited.

Go back and watch the Atlanta game. AD is as close to superman as a defensive player gets. I'm going to move on. It's a waste of time. I thought trading him was a terrible idea last year, and I think it's an equally terrible idea this year. Pay the man, and let's move forward. I'm never going to be down with trading him.

 

[PressureD41]

He's as close too Reggie White as it gets. Pay da Man!!!!
Trading him would be such a stupid thing. Wade can find a couple of cheaper guy to fill out to save a few bucks.

 

[Loyal]

We should merge it with last years thread.

I'd rather just sign Donald...

 

[12intheBox]

23 per year feels like where this will end. It’s a shame it probably won’t be until after the season is underway instead of this morning.

I think we lose some appreciation for (or at least I do) how much pressure is applied to the superstars from the players association to get every penny - as they perceive it ultimately affects all top players.

But does it? The cap is there and there is a rule in place where teams ultimately have to spend to it (or 99% of it?) The cap is based on a profit split between players and owners. Why should the nflpa care whether spending is top heavy or more evenly spread? They rep all the players - even those at the bottom of the roster.

 

[Akrasian]

You're revising history six years later using hindsight. As I said, for all we know, we'll be able to say the same thing about Donald's deal.

No, no revision. He was paid like a good, not great WR, at the time, but was performing above that level. Just because you apparently didn't recognize that at the time but the Patriots did does not change that.

Go back and watch the Atlanta game. AD is as close to superman as a defensive player gets.

Which sort of makes my point. As a DT, his impact was limited despite being exceptional. His impact does not merit being paid like he is an elite, or even a good, QB.

 

[Akrasian]

Ugh. Sure hope signing AD doesn’t make it harder to sign Peters...

Or Goff. People act like this is in a vacuum. That rewarding AD with more money than makes cap sense because he is holding out, not reporting while under contract, reporting too late to play but in time to get a game check like he did last season, etc is not going to be copied by his teammates.

The Rams have shown that they will sign players to excellent contracts that benefit both sides. Should the Rams show that they will cave under pressure?

 

[SeminoleRam]

He's as close too Reggie White as it gets. Pay da Man!!!!
Trading him would be such a stupid thing. Wade can find a couple of cheaper guy to fill out to save a few bucks.

I know this is a Business and there is a limit to how much you will pay but I think it will be a great disappointment if the Rams can't sign him and put out what I think could be one of the best (If not, The best!) 3 man DL (Donald, Suh and Brockers would be very, very scary!) in History!

 

[snackdaddy]

I know this is a Business and there is a limit to how much you will pay but I think it will be a great disappointment if the Rams can't sign him and put out what I think could be one of the best (If not, The best!) 3 man DL (Donald, Suh and Brockers would be very, very scary!) in History!

Yeah, thats a sad fact of life in the NFL. Here we are, set to field one of the best lines the league has seen in a while along with a top tier secondary. And our best player is holding out for more money.

 

[snackdaddy]

Learned one new thing from the deadspin article just posted: AD could get fined $405K for every preseason game missed. In addition to $30K every day that’s missed.

So, well over 2.5 million (Austin Powers’ Dr. Evil voice) in fines if he holds out for over one month, like last year.

Yeah, the Rams will probably waive the fines once he reports, like they did last year. Still— that is one high-stakes game of chicken he’s playing...

If his demands are to the point of there is no way they do that deal, I have to wonder if the relationship has soured to the point where they won't waive the fines?

 

[majrleaged]

Plus a game check every week during the season. I don't know if all that can be collected if he is traded before he reports. I'd hope so

I will be pissed if they trade him. Let him sit the whole season and see if he wants to sign, but do not give him away. They would only draft pics for next season anyway. Nothing to help this year. So hang on and let him know you want him but not for what he wants. Do not give him away.

 

[ReekofRams]

But if Eric Geller’s tweet is indeed accurate, the two sides have a major diffference regarding average $ per year.

If Eric Geller's tweet had any validity there would have been a lot of noise out there from the medis, and there's not. Instead what do we hear? Silence! Nothing more nothing less.

 

[ReekofRams]

I'd rather just sign Donald...

Man, you sound like a smart person.

 

[Akrasian]

I will be ticked if they trade him. Let him sit the whole season and see if he wants to sign, but do not give him away. They would only draft pics for next season anyway. Nothing to help this year. So hang on and let him know you want him but not for what he wants. Do not give him away.

Depends on what they're offered. While he is sitting out, he's not contributing to the team. It's possible it's actually a distraction to the team. OTOH, he likely would report with at least 6 games to play (or his contract rolls over, iirc). He likely wouldn't be an impact player for a couple of weeks, but the Rams could get him tuned up for the playoffs. So that has value to the Rams.

OTOH, it's possible that the Rams get a fantastic offer for him, more than they might get if they wait, in week 1. We don't know.

What I'm hoping is that a reasonable deal will be made, where AD gets a ginormous amount of money but that the Rams feel they can live with, he reports next week, and Brockers, Suh, and Donald wreak havoc on the league.