Aaron Donald’s contract situation

[jrry32]

No, but Saffold and Havenstein are the guys who keep Goff on his feet, and who open holes for Gurley. The Rams could have a solid defense without AD, if he prices himself out of cap space. Without a decent OL, it's hard to see them having a solid offense.

It's much easier to replace an above average RT and a good LG than it is a top 5 player in football. Dynasties become dynasties because they use the draft, bargain FA signings, player development, and great scheming to make the average to good starters expendable while retaining their elite players (until the elite player is near the end of the line).

 

[Loyal]

858 posts going on 1,000. Phew!:deadhorse::rant:

You need to upgrade, Bubba!

 

[Akrasian]

Plus a game check every week during the season. I don't know if all that can be collected if he is traded before he reports. I'd hope so

 

[LesBaker]

Call me crazy, I keep clicking on this thread in case Aaron signed a deal for 10 years....I'm also looking for a well cared for mouse colored unicorn....Got cash, text me...

Long or short mane?

 

[Akrasian]

It's much easier to replace an above average RT and a good LG than it is a top 5 player in football. Dynasties become dynasties because they use the draft, bargain FA signings, player development, and great scheming to make the average to good starters expendable while retaining their elite players (until the elite player is near the end of the line).

The cap is set up so that teams can't have too many elite players, unless they sacrifice depth.

Theoretically, things could work out, and Donald might not be the straw that breaks the camels back. But it is a fact that the Rams have 3 free agents on their OL this coming season, and it's not clear if they have any quality replacements on their roster yet. Plus holes likely to emerge elsewhere.

The current dynasty in the NFL is the Patriots, which are known for trading expensive players for draft picks. Not all of them, but a number of them, so I don't think recent history supports your thesis. The Patriots would keep a couple of elite players, but not all of them.

 

[Akrasian]

Can we agree at least that there is some dollar amount that signing AD for would not make sense for the Rams? He's a great player, but I want a great team. And having a great team requires depth. Yes, that means having good but not great players in spots, instead of having a great player and a number of well below average players.

 

[Loyal]

Long or short mane?

*braided? So long I guess!

 

[12intheBox]

Yes, there is a point where too much money really is too much. Correctly identifying that point separates great from offices from guys without jobs anymore.

They have to find a way to get this done longterm. If it takes starting this season without AD out there to get it done right, I’m willing to wait it out and be patient. But it does need to happen.

 

[jrry32]

The cap is set up so that teams can't have too many elite players, unless they sacrifice depth.

I'd rather sacrifice depth than sacrifice the Defensive Player of the Year. If we can't replace depth, we're doing a poor job of identifying and developing talent.

Theoretically, things could work out, and Donald might not be the straw that breaks the camels back. But it is a fact that the Rams have 3 free agents on their OL this coming season, and it's not clear if they have any quality replacements on their roster yet. Plus holes likely to emerge elsewhere.

Well, we drafted 3 OLs. We have the Draft next year. And we have FA (while still possessing plenty of cap room). I also expect we'll try to keep at least one of the two young OLs (Hav and Jamon).

The current dynasty in the NFL is the Patriots, which are known for trading expensive players for draft picks. Not all of them, but a number of them, so I don't think recent history supports your thesis. The Patriots would keep a couple of elite players, but not all of them.

Recent history perfectly supports my thesis. The Patriots retain the players who are elite and key to their scheme. They trade or let walk in FA the quality players who are replaceable. And then they replace those players with younger, cheaper players. Look at which guys the Patriots have kept around: Brady, Gronk, and Devin McCourty. All three guys are top 5 players at their positions who play vital roles in the Patriots' success. Look at the guys they've let go: Chandler Jones (trade), Jaime Collins (trade), Logan Mankins (FA - Age), Nate Solder (FA - Age), Dion Lewis (FA - Replaceable), Wes Welker (FA - Replaceable), Malcolm Butler (FA - Replaced), etc.

Donald is our Gronk. He's the best player at his position and one of the best players in football. He's a guy you build a scheme around. He's one of a not very long list of non-QBs who changes the landscape of a game. Donald isn't the guy you let walk. He's the guy you keep. You aren't going to replace an Aaron Donald, but if Kromer and McVay are as good as advertised (and I think they are), you can replace a Rodger Saffold or a Jamon Brown or a Rob Havenstein.

Can we agree at least that there is some dollar amount that signing AD for would not make sense for the Rams? He's a great player, but I want a great team. And having a great team requires depth. Yes, that means having good but not great players in spots, instead of having a great player and a number of well below average players.

That's a given, but I highly doubt that Donald has priced himself out of this atmosphere. Both sides are posturing right now.

 

[dang]

Can we agree at least that there is some dollar amount that signing AD for would not make sense for the Rams? He's a great player, but I want a great team. And having a great team requires depth. Yes, that means having good but not great players in spots, instead of having a great player and a number of well below average players.

For the Rams its $$$ against the cap. They are getting a deal in 2018 but going forward there is a limit. I believe the reported $21m/yr reflects the limits the Rams are willing afford against the cap. It could raise as the cap raises but they probably don't think they can afford $25m+/yr against the cap.
For Donald it should be guaranteed $$$. I believe Von Miller has the highest for a non-QB at $70m. Kirk Cousins tops off at $84m. So deductive speculation is Donald is probably looking for a 4 year contract $23m-$25m/yr with $75m-$80m guaranteed. - which is a bit more than Rams feel they can afford or should risk.

 

[XXXIVwin]

It should be clearly obvious to anyone that the Rams are “all in” for this season.

Does anyone here really believe this deal isn’t going down soon?

It’s a double-edged sword.

Yes, the Rams are “all-in” for this year, but oddly enough, this gives some leverage back to AD.

I can see Todd France saying to his client, “The Rams know they can’t win a Super Bowl without you, so keep holding out, because soon enough they’ll cave in.”

 

[Akrasian]

I'd rather sacrifice depth than sacrifice the Defensive Player of the Year. If we can't replace depth, we're doing a poor job of identifying and developing talent.

Or don't have the picks, the money, or the time to develop the players. Not every pick develops in a time frame that the team needs. And given the number of holes the Rams have, with the relatively low number of badly overpaid vets that they can cut, there is less resources than might be thought at first glance.

Well, we drafted 3 OLs. We have the Draft next year. And we have FA (while still possessing plenty of cap room). I also expect we'll try to keep at least one of the two young OLs (Hav and Jamon).

Sure. The first OL drafted was in the late 3rd round. Maybe I'm nervous, but I'd rather not count on any of them yet to be quality players next season, given the draft positions and the fact that they have yet to even play a preseason down.

And the apparently plenty of cap room for 2019 is cut down by close to 40% with an AD contract.

Donald is our Gronk. He's the best player at his position and one of the best players in football. He's a guy you build a scheme around. He's one of a not very long list of non-QBs who changes the landscape of a game. Donald isn't the guy you let walk. He's the guy you keep. You aren't going to replace an Aaron Donald, but if Kromer and McVay are as good as advertised (and I think they are), you can replace a Rodger Saffold or a Jamon Brown or a Rob Havenstein.

Gronk has never been paid remotely as much - in dollar amount, or percentage of cap - as what the Rams have supposedly offered Donald, much less as what Donald supposedly has demanded.

Gronk is a great player, one of the greatest TEs of all time, and a guy who deserved for his on the field production to be paid as a WR. But the Patriots kept him, because he was a freakin' bargain for his production. He's never gotten around 14% of cap room for his production - not even in the same zip code. If he is the best example you have, then it's clear that the Patriots are NOT prone to overpaying players for their production.

 

[hotanez]

I've got this feeling that Donald will sign an extension soon. I just can't think of him wearing anything but horns.

 

[Akrasian]

I've got this feeling that Donald will sign an extension soon. I just can't think of him wearing anything but horns.

I hope you're right. I just have a nagging feeling that he really is a hardliner, partially because of how he knew he was reporting at the end of training camp last year, and deliberately dawdled several extra days so he would get his game check but would not be able to actually play in week 1. A dick move, and a big FU to his teammates. Granted, he hustled the rest of the year. But it still bothers me.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Around $22 million per year.

Jrry, I think you make a convincing case for the minority opinion. Championship teams win with transcendent players.

Just curious though— where is the number where you draw a line in the sand? For me, it’s 22. (My uninformed speculative wild guess is that this is the Rams’ “line in the sand,” also. When the deal finally gets done, I predict we’ll see an avg. of 22 APY).

Also, shouldn’t there be a concern that giving in to AD’s agent would just make all future contract negotiations with other players more difficult?

August 6th is gonna be an interesting night.

 

[jrry32]

Jrry, I think you make a convincing case for the minority opinion. Championship teams win with transcendent players.

Just curious though— where is the number where you draw a line in the sand? For me, it’s 22. (My uninformed speculative wild guess is that this is the Rams’ “line in the sand,” also. When the deal finally gets done, I predict we’ll see an avg. of 22 APY).

Also, shouldn’t there be a concern that giving in to AD’s agent would just make all future contract negotiations with other players more difficult?

August 6th is gonna be an interesting night.

As I said, 22 is where I value him. No concern. There's only one Aaron Donald. His agent can't change that.

 

[dang]

Again - due to Cap space the Rams are not likely able to give Donald any more $$$ until next year - so getting him for $6.9m in 2018 (way below market value) has to be a factor in the final agreement.

 

[jrry32]

Or don't have the picks, the money, or the time to develop the players. Not every pick develops in a time frame that the team needs. And given the number of holes the Rams have, with the relatively low number of badly overpaid vets that they can cut, there is less resources than might be thought at first glance.

Depth is depth. It's not difficult to find. Our cap situation is fine.

Sure. The first OL drafted was in the late 3rd round. Maybe I'm nervous, but I'd rather not count on any of them yet to be quality players next season, given the draft positions and the fact that they have yet to even play a preseason down.

And the apparently plenty of cap room for 2019 is cut down by close to 40% with an AD contract.

Which still leaves us with plenty of cap room.

Gronk has never been paid remotely as much - in dollar amount, or percentage of cap - as what the Rams have supposedly offered Donald, much less as what Donald supposedly has demanded.

That's besides the point. The Patriots knew which players they needed to keep. The fact that they were able to make a good deal with Gronk doesn't change their strategy. They knew which guys were indispensable and which guys were replaceable. You don't replace a Gronk or an Aaron Donald. There is no other Aaron Donald in the NFL. We're major idiots if we take a homegrown HOF talent who is just now entering his prime and get rid of him because we don't want to pay him. That's the sort of move garbage franchises like the Marlins make.

Gronk is a great player, one of the greatest TEs of all time, and a guy who deserved for his on the field production to be paid as a WR. But the Patriots kept him, because he was a freakin' bargain for his production. He's never gotten around 14% of cap room for his production - not even in the same zip code. If he is the best example you have, then it's clear that the Patriots are NOT prone to overpaying players for their production.

If you think we're "overpaying" Donald, then I'm wasting my time with this conversation.

 

[jrry32]

Again - due to Cap space the Rams are not likely able to give Donald any more $$$ until next year - so getting him for $6.9m in 2018 (way below market value) has to be a factor in the final agreement.

That's not really an issue. We have ways around it. The easiest way is the signing bonus. For accounting purposes, it's prorated, but the money is paid upfront.

 

[norcalramfan]

You need to upgrade, Bubba!

We should merge it with last years thread.