Aaron Donald’s contract situation

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dang

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I think we can all agree that Elite QBs are the diamonds of the NFL.

I think most of us can agree that Donald is the best defensive player in the NFL right now.

I think most of us can agree that no matter how good Donald is - he will not and should not get the same money as the most elite QBs.

With that said Donald/Agent are working the system to take advantage of his status as the clear #1 defensive player in the NFL.

I am not counting the steal the Rams had in Donald's contract (nor should Donald) but I am counting the fact that we have him for only $6.9m in 2018.

If the Rams extend him for $21m/yr for 4 more years his 5 year avg (5th year rookie + 4 extension years) is $18.2m/yr. A nice price for Donald who is very likely to perform at elite to #1 defensive players level for 5 years.

If the Rams extend him for $23m/yr for 4 more years his 5 year avg (5th year rookie + 4 extension years) is $19.8m. Again a very fair price for Donald for 5 years.

So my point is - I hope Rams are open to negotiating their gap considering his 2018 contract is a bargain basement deal that should factor into the overall financial investment.
 

Akrasian

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The non exclusive franchise tender requires two first round picks a team has to give the Rams if that team makes an offer the Rams don't match. If I'm the Rams I used that option if he sits out the whole season. Although I just can't see anyone offering him 25+ million and giving up two first round picks. I'm not sure anyone but a Brady/Rogers/Brees in their primes would be worth that.

That's if a contract is signed. They can also do an offer sheet then negotiate for a trade, which iirc is the far more common option.

But it wouldn't shock me if he starts sitting out games as he supposedly has threatened if a trade is negotiated at some stage during the season. And yes, with the Rams' permission a contract could be negotiated with the other team while he's sitting out.
 

jrry32

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The center handles the ball on every snap, maybe he should get $25 million. ;)

This is my last post on this topic. I'm not debating the value of DTs vs. QBs because, like I have said, one cannot compare the two. There are no common parameters, just opinion. And what is "very good"? Aaron Donald can negate the best QBs and stuff the best RBs. He is someone that opposing defenses must game plan against; just him, not the whole defense. IN MY OPINION Aaron Donald is worth $$$ more than Jimmy Garappolo or Alex Smith or Joe Flacco. He is worth very good QB money because he can make very good QBs look bad.

I know Kevin is taking a lot of heat, but I think he's making an interesting and novel argument that people should give a bit more thought to before writing it off. First, I agree with the people who are saying that Donald isn't worth Kirk Cousins money. However, I think Kevin's argument introduces an interesting theory. While elite QBs are definitely worth big money, are QBs like Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins worth that money? We saw the Eagles win a Super Bowl this year because of their coaching and overall talent despite starting their backup QB.

IMO, NFL teams are starting to make the mistake that NBA teams make. Let me explain. You see all too often in the NBA where a guy who is only a good player is given a max contract. This typically happens when a team is contending for the playoffs but can't get over the hump or has just missed out on a star in FA and is desperate. Those max contracts often end up being anchors because they're paying max money to a guy who isn't good enough to be a #1 or #2 on a true championship team.

How does that realization apply here? My thought is that you should bypass paying what is essentially max money to a QB who won't make your team a championship team. Instead, save that money, spend it on strengthening the rest of the team, and try to acquire a QB who can lead that team on a rookie contract or a bargain deal. Basically, if Kirk Cousins is asking for $30 million per year, you let him walk. Why? Because Cousins isn't going to elevate your team to a SB champion. You need the talent around him to do that. That means you have a very thin margin for error with his contract eating up that space.

It makes sense for the Vikings to go after Cousins because they already have the talent, but it also made sense for the Redskins to pass on paying him. However, the mistake they made was giving all that money to Alex Smith. As for Donald, he's an elite player. He's worth paying a lot of money.
 

RamFan503

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While elite QBs are definitely worth big money, are QBs like Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins worth that money?
I actually meant to answer that question with - No - Cousins isn't worth that kind of money. And that is simply because I don't consider him top 10 at QB. I get your point on having to have talent around a QB and that is almost an obvious necessity. However, in the grand scheme of things, I think the QB salaries are getting a bit out of hand with the Cousins deal as an IMO mediocre QB getting money that I feel should be reserved for those who are elite. Even though I don't agree that an elite DT/DE like AD should be paid at elite or even really good QB levels, the Cousins deal can't help but reset every wage scale. It's a problem and I'm not sure what the answer will be.

I don't begrudge anyone for making what they can make. But at some point, someone is going to either have to blink or this won't end well. If we are to be ready to pay Goff in a couple years and accommodate other rising contracts as well as needed FAs to fill out the roster, I don't think resetting the pay scale on DTs is a great idea for this team.

The easy answer is "pay the man". But the tough answer is how to balance the contracts in order to stay in the hunt for SBs. I hope AD gets as much as possible while the Rams are able to deal with it and manage a top level roster within whatever cap is in place.

I hope to hell we can figure it out and lock up AD long term. I also think that adding him to the deals done list will encourage players to come to LA - especially if we are considered a contender each year. The flip side of that is that if we pull a Snyder and over pay a star player you just "have to have", and it screws us on money to spend, we could very well go back to the days after the GSOT. And ain't no one want to go back there.
 

Loyal

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Call me crazy, I keep clicking on this thread in case Aaron signed a deal for 10 years....I'm also looking for a well cared for mouse colored unicorn....Got cash, text me...
 

pmil66

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Kirk Cousins has no pass rush moves and Aaron Donald cannot throw a spiral. That's for sure. Just saying we cannot objectively compare players at completely different positions on different teams.

I think we can. Simple question: Is Aaron Donald better at his job than Kirk Cousins is at his? I say yes.
 

OC--LeftCoast

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This will be my one and only comment on this thread

It should be clearly obvious to anyone that the Rams are “all in” for this season

Does anyone here really believe this deal isn’t going down soon?
 

Akrasian

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I know Kevin is taking a lot of heat, but I think he's making an interesting and novel argument that people should give a bit more thought to before writing it off. First, I agree with the people who are saying that Donald isn't worth Kirk Cousins money. However, I think Kevin's argument introduces an interesting theory. While elite QBs are definitely worth big money, are QBs like Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins worth that money? We saw the Eagles win a Super Bowl this year because of their coaching and overall talent despite starting their backup QB.

IMO, NFL teams are starting to make the mistake that NBA teams make. Let me explain. You see all too often in the NBA where a guy who is only a good player is given a max contract. This typically happens when a team is contending for the playoffs but can't get over the hump or has just missed out on a star in FA and is desperate. Those max contracts often end up being anchors because they're paying max money to a guy who isn't good enough to be a #1 or #2 on a true championship team.

How does that realization apply here? My thought is that you should bypass paying what is essentially max money to a QB who won't make your team a championship team. Instead, save that money, spend it on strengthening the rest of the team, and try to acquire a QB who can lead that team on a rookie contract or a bargain deal. Basically, if Kirk Cousins is asking for $30 million per year, you let him walk. Why? Because Cousins isn't going to elevate your team to a SB champion. You need the talent around him to do that. That means you have a very thin margin for error with his contract eating up that space.

It makes sense for the Vikings to go after Cousins because they already have the talent, but it also made sense for the Redskins to pass on paying him. However, the mistake they made was giving all that money to Alex Smith. As for Donald, he's an elite player. He's worth paying a lot of money.

It's definitely possible to overpay any position, of course. And bad teams (not just poor records, but without the personnel to improve rapidly) probably should go the developmental route, while improving their team in other ways. But if a team has depth right now, I think they are better off getting a solid if unspectacular QB now than trying to develop one. We have seen how hard it is to get a QB, how it can take years to find one - meanwhile the rest of the team ends up FA eligible, making it impossible to keep them together. A team like Washington is plausibly a good draft and a couple of free agents away from legitimate contention, as long as they have a solid QB option. Without a solid QB, even if the resources were put elsewhere (say into an elite DT) they are not going to be a Super Bowl contender. To be a Super Bowl contender without a solid QB you basically need a great defense and an otherwise solid offense. Even the Eagles this past season had a legit MVP candidate at QB to go with a better than average backup. Without Wentz, they don't get home field advantage, and likely don't make the Super Bowl.

But yes, you have to know where your team is at, and spend money wisely. That being said, the more I think about it, the more skeptical I am that the Rams are in a position to pay Donald much over $20 million. As great as he is, it's not clear whether that is a good use of resources. I'd like for them to keep him, even with paying him more than optimal, but I won't be traumatized if they can find a sucker - I mean, if they can find a team to take on paying him what he wants, and get back young players and picks plus the cap room for him. A young OL that they like, plus cap room and picks would go a long ways towards fixing the OL before it's broken by free agency this coming offseason.
 

jrry32

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I'd like for them to keep him, even with paying him more than optimal, but I won't be traumatized if they can find a sucker - I mean, if they can find a team to take on paying him what he wants, and get back young players and picks plus the cap room for him.

We're the suckers if we let that guy walk. I guarantee you that the Eagles didn't feel vindicated when they let Reggie White go. I guarantee you that the Pittsburgh Pirates didn't feel vindicated when they let Barry Bonds go. You don't let a HOF caliber player go in his prime.
 

1maGoh

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Well, I was responding to a comment that a DT will never have the same kind of, potential for, or options to impact the game as a QB, any QB, and salary must reflect that positional value judgement, REGARDLESS of the talent displayed by the individual player. I don't agree with that.

Let's leave Ryan Fitzpatrick out of this for a minute and look at the top 1/4 of QB salaries as you mentioned. Alex Smith signed a 4 year, $94 million contract with the Redskins. He is right on the cusp of the top 1/4 QBs, ranking eighth and his salary averages $23.5 M per year. Right in between the $21M we think has been offered and the $25M we think has been demanded.

And FWIW, Garappolo averages $27M per year and Derek Carr averages $25M, so does that make any sense compared to what Donald might want? In comparison to QBs, maybe Donald isn't asking for too much but some QBs are grossly overpaid by comparison?
I meant the QB position, not a particular QB. Sure Donald should get paid more than crappy QBs. As much as average-ish to good-ish QBs. But certainly not as much as above average to elite QBs. The level of play he would have to exhibit in a game in, game out basis would be unprecedented. Sacks and TFLs on every other play.

And apparently I have to say, all of this in my opinion of course.
 

Akrasian

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We're the suckers if we let that guy walk. I guarantee you that the Eagles didn't feel vindicated when they let Reggie White go. I guarantee you that the Pittsburgh Pirates didn't feel vindicated when they let Barry Bonds go. You don't let a HOF caliber player go in his prime.

Reggie White became a free agent before there was a salary cap. Losing talent for nothing, when the team could spend money freely, is different than losing talent under a cap, when keeping the player inevitably means that other players will not be kept. Under a cap hard choices have to be made.
 

jrry32

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Reggie White became a free agent before there was a salary cap. Losing talent for nothing, when the team could spend money freely, is different than losing talent under a cap, when keeping the player inevitably means that other players will not be kept. Under a cap hard choices have to be made.

Yea, hard choices do have to be made. But the hard choices are Rodger Saffold, Michael Brockers, Alec Ogletree, Rob Havenstein, etc. type players. They aren't the guy who could feasibly win DPOY every year.
 

Akrasian

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Yea, hard choices do have to be made. But the hard choices are Rodger Saffold, Michael Brockers, Alec Ogletree, Rob Havenstein, etc. type players. They aren't the guy who could feasibly win DPOY every year.

No, but Saffold and Havenstein are the guys who keep Goff on his feet, and who open holes for Gurley. The Rams could have a solid defense without AD, if he prices himself out of cap space. Without a decent OL, it's hard to see them having a solid offense.
 

Merlin

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https://deadspin.com/aaron-donald-is-digging-in-1827891626

Aaron Donald is Digging In


Dom Cosentino

Today 12:08pm
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Photo: Christian Petersen (Getty)

The Los Angeles Rams’ aggressive offseason—timed to coincide with a quarterback on his rookie deal and with a crucial period to sell personal seat licenses—continued with the recent signings of wideout Brandin Cooks and running back Todd Gurley to lucrative contract extensions. Nonetheless, the Rams held their first training camp practice yesterday without their best player, defensive tackle Aaron Donald. And there’s no telling when he might show.

Donald is the reigning NFL defensive player of the year. He’s a human wrecking ball on the defensive interior. His 91 quarterback pressures last season led the league, per Pro Football Focus, with the Broncos’ Von Miller a distant second at 83. And Donald didn’t even play in two games, including one that coincided with a holdout that extended right up until the eve of the regular season. Yet here he is, nearly a full year later, still waiting on a second contract, even as his team wheels and deals to stock the roster while also extending some of his teammates. Anything else you’d like to know? Fire away.

What happened with Donald’s holdout last year?

As he entered the fourth year of his rookie deal, Donald felt he was worth more than the $1.8 million he was slated to earn in 2017, in addition to the $6.9 million he was due in 2018, since the Rams had already picked up his fifth-year option. He wanted a new deal, so he held out until Sept. 9—one day before the start of the regular season. The CBA calls for fines of $40,000 per day for holdouts by players under contract, so Donald accrued roughly $1.4 million in fines. By the time he reported for work, it was too late to play in the Sept. 10 season opener. The Rams could have docked him a game check for that, too, but they decided not to do that—or to fine him the $1.4 million.

Did his holdout accomplish anything?

No. In fact, by not reporting 30 days before the start of the regular season, Donald even lost an accrued season toward free agency. So even though he has played four seasons, the league only credits him with three. Which means if he were to hold out for an extensive period again, he’d be a restricted free agent next year, rather than unrestricted.

That sucks.

Eh. Not really, at least in this case. As a restricted free agent, Donald would have to be tendered by the Rams next offseason, which means another team could make him a gargantuan offer. The Rams could then match that offer or risk losing him in exchange for a first-round pick. And a lot of teams would likely make gargantuan offers, even at the cost of losing a first-round pick, because he’s very good.

So what happens if he holds out again? Could he lose another accrued season?

Yep. If he doesn’t report by Aug. 7, his free agency clock would stand still at three seasons.

Which is not that different than if he were to show, right?

You’re catching on.

What about the fines?

Donald would be docked just $30,000 per day this year, as opposed to last year’s $40,000 per day, since the rules are different for holdouts by players on fifth-year options (because of course they are).

What else?

He’d also get fined one regular-season game check for each preseason game missed. Which would be right around $405,000 per game. The Rams’ first preseason game is Aug. 9, so you can see how this could get pretty expensive pretty quickly.

So where do things stand?

I’ll let Schefter take this one ...


View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1022445064679763968?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1022445064679763968&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdeadspin.com%2Fajax%2Finset%2Fiframe%3Fid%3Dtwitter-1022445064679763968%26autosize%3D1


Now, that could certainly be some posturing from Donald’s camp, but the threat of sitting out is at least out there.

Have other players held out into the regular season recently?

Texans left tackle Duane Brown held out into October just last year, and he forced a trade to the Seahawks. Seahawks safety Kam Chancellor did it in 2015, but he didn’t accomplish anything. The heavy fine structure that’s baked into this CBA really disincentivizes holdouts.

Why won’t the Rams do a deal with Donald?

All long-term deals are complex, but the system kind of allows the Rams to wait this one out. As a first-round pick, Donald has a fifth-year option, which, as I mentioned above, pays $6.9 million. That’s maybe a third (or more) of what he might get on the open market. And when he’s eligible to be a restricted free agent, the Rams could then place the franchise tag on him to retain his rights without allowing him to field other offers. And just how Washington did with Kirk Cousins and the Steelers did with Le’Veon Bell, they can use that tag more than once. By 2020, the Rams likely will have done (or would be close to doing) a lucrative long-term deal with quarterback Jared Goff, whose fifth-year option season is that year. As a result, the Rams could be thinking it’s more prudent to go year-to-year with Donald. They even could tag Donald up to three times, which would cut off his bargaining position but pay him a total of $58.7 million in that span—less than market rate, but at least somewhat in the ballpark. The risk for Donald is that a brutal injury could keep him from seeing all that money. And by 2021, he will be 30.

Huh. I didn’t know he was already that old.

Yep. He’s 27. Teams in recent years have been hesitant to give big money to non-quarterbacks. As Joel Corry of CBSSports.com calculated, the top of the non-quarterback market has grown 18 percent since this CBA was enacted in 2011, while the quarterback market has shot up 67 percent—with a 20 percent jump happening in just the past year. Matt Ryan crossed the $30 million per year threshold, and Aaron Rodgers is likely to be next. At the same time, the highest-paid non-QB is the Broncos’ Miller, who’s pulling in a shade over $19 million annually—on a deal he signed two years ago.

What gives?

The scarcity of quality quarterbacks leads teams to place a lot of value in them. And defensive linemen like Mario Williams ($16 million in average annual value in 2012), Ndamukong Suh ($59.5 million fully guaranteed in 2015), and Muhammad Wilkerson ($36.75 fully guaranteed in 2016) all signed megadeals they never lived up to. J.J. Watt signed a big deal in 2014 but has been wracked with injuries the last two years. Hell, look at the kind of shit Raiders head coach Jon Gruden is saying about edge rusher Khalil Mack, his best player:

Mack, like Donald, is holding out as he enters his fifth-year option season. Mack’s option will pay him $13.846 million, which is well below market rate, given what a terrific player he is. Now, Mack’s circumstances are somewhat different, in that the Raiders have a quarterback in Derek Carr who is on a second contract that will pay him $25 million per year. But still: The cap has jumped 14 percent just in the last two years, and the Raiders are estimated to have more than $40 million in cap space in 2019. And the overall trend here is very real: Corry noted that in 2011, the first year of the current CBA, the highest paid non-QB was making 89.7 percent of the average annual salary of the highest paid QB. By 2017, that figure had dipped to 70.7 percent. Teams appear to be afraid of setting a trend by crossing a $20 million threshold with non-QBs.

But, like, why?

Robert Mays of The Ringer wrote back in May that only four of the 28 teams to have reached the conference championship game since 2011 had non-QBs who accounted for more than 10 percent of their cap, as Donald would if he were to sign a market-rate megadeal. And the Rams have the franchise tag in their quiver.

What’s Donald worth? Like, annually and in terms of a guarantee?

I’m again going to refer to this piece by CBS’s Corry, because it lays all of this out. Corry compared the highest AAVs, total guarantees, and full guarantees of QBs and non-QBs from 2011 to 2017, and averaged them out. Assuming an AAV of 78.7 percent, a total guarantee of 84.9 percent, and a full guarantee of 79.5 percent, Donald (and Mack, for that matter) ought to be looking at something in the range of $23.6 million in AAV, an overall guarantee of $85 million, and a full guarantee of $67.5 million. A deal like that for a non-QB would be a trend-setter, for sure. No one knows what Donald is asking for, but given the gaping disparity between those numbers and what he’s set to earn this season, it’s easy to see why he again plans to stay away for a while.
 

XXXIVwin

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Learned one new thing from the deadspin article just posted: AD could get fined $405K for every preseason game missed. In addition to $30K every day that’s missed.

So, well over 2.5 million (Austin Powers’ Dr. Evil voice) in fines if he holds out for over one month, like last year.

Yeah, the Rams will probably waive the fines once he reports, like they did last year. Still— that is one high-stakes game of chicken he’s playing...
 
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