Aaron Donald’s contract situation

[12intheBox]

177.2 mil for 2018

So higher than 12%... more like 14% of the total cap. Not sure how that compares to Vonn Miller

When Von signed in 2016 - using averages, he was allocated about 12% of the team's cap number. As the cap has gone up, his % has gone down.

The Rams are reportedly offering AD around 12% of the 2018 cap number - and AD is reportedly asking for north of 14%.

 

[Kevin]

Has anyone looked at what % of the cap number ADs demands would be compared to what .... say Von Miller’s contract was?

If not, one of you jump on that for us, would ya?

I believe the NFL salary cap for 2018 is $177.2 million. Assuming that AD wants to average $25M per year, he would take up 14.11% of the 2018 cap.

Von Miller signed a 6 year, $114,100,000 contract with the Denver Broncos, including a $17,000,000 signing bonus, $70,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $19,016,667. VM will take up 10.73% of Denver's cap in 2018.

EDIT: since the actual cap numbers vary from year to year, Von Miller's actual cap hit in 2018 is a little more than 5%. His average salary is 10.73% of the 2018 cap.

 

[12intheBox]

By comparison, the Rams just inked Todd Gurley to what would be 8% of the cap if his number were in this year (which it isn't) - Gurley's contract will likely always be less than 8% of the cap unless the cap goes down somehow.

Cooks is closer to 9% - although in both cases we are talking averages - the actual cap numbers are spread unevenly throughout these contracts - Cooks is loaded up to hit biggest in 2019 and 2020.

 

[Zaphod]

If the rumored deal and reaction by AD's representation is true, a trade is a possibility.



I am sure Wade wants AD in horns just as much as all of us do. But that aside it's important to remember that Wade does not need a great 3T to field a top defense. The Rams are going to win with or without AD, because they have high end coaching on both sides of the ball. In the event AD prices himself out of horns, for example, and the Rams end up with say two first round picks they could end up adding a LT and NT with Suh sliding over to 3T under an extension and not necessarily miss a beat.

Quality drafting moving forward, and paying the guys who want to be here and who deserve it is the key for this organization. No one player is greater than the whole. IMO. Not even AD.

Honestly, when they signed Suh I actually assumed he was an insurance policy of sorts. And I agree with you 100%, while Wade absolutely would love to have that combination of Donald, Suh, and Brockers, I would still have very high expectations for the Rams this year even without Donald.

 

[12intheBox]

The Rams would be foolish to take anything less than 2 #1s - which is what they would get under the franchise tag.

I'd rather Donald was out of football then to have him on some other team with us getting less than 2 1s for him.

Now who out there is going to pony up 2 first round picks (plus perhaps more) AND pay 14+% of their salary cap to the guy?

 

[RamFan503]

Im sure many will disagree.

Yes - I'd say most. And that includes actual GMs and coaches.

The issue comparing these two is QB is such a massively more important positions it is apples and oranges.

It seems odd that it is even a question. Of course the QB position is more important to team success - both bad and good.

There is nothing objective in your comparison; its just how you feel and that's fine.

Well - it seems to be a pretty well accepted position among those who actually make the decisions in the NFL. And there are very objective pieces to the argument. Chief among those is that the QB handles the ball EVERY play on his side of the ball. The QB is also the one relaying the call and often making the call for the offense. A good QB has made huge differences with teams. How much of a difference did AD really make against ATL? He is a great DT yet they ran all over us.

I think it's a pretty objective comparison. Pay AD the best at his position? Sure. Value him as high as a very good QB? Not hardly - unless of course you want to set a new record with Goff or start at square one at QB because we can't pay him.

Special teamers are in for a handful of plays and starters, well, they play more. They have a different role than a starter. It all different, don't you get it? It's an unfair comparison.

Isn't this EXACTLY the objective argument for a QB making more? He touches the ball on every play he's in the game AND calls the plays, audibles, etc... A DT can't possibly be involved in every play and to say that AD actually affects every play is not being honest to what you see. Often the play just doesn't involve him. Hell - he doesn't even play every snap on defense.

If it comes out that they wouldn't sign at 25MIL per year LOTS of Rams fans are going to be unhappy about that. Including me.

You mean you and LOTS of Ram fans will be unhappy if the Rams aren't willing to pay AD $25mil? Really? I kinda doubt that. I think most fans are already thinking AD should sign at $21mil.

 

[Kevin]

The center handles the ball on every snap, maybe he should get $25 million.

This is my last post on this topic. I'm not debating the value of DTs vs. QBs because, like I have said, one cannot compare the two. There are no common parameters, just opinion. And what is "very good"? Aaron Donald can negate the best QBs and stuff the best RBs. He is someone that opposing defenses must game plan against; just him, not the whole defense. IN MY OPINION Aaron Donald is worth $$$ more than Jimmy Garappolo or Alex Smith or Joe Flacco. He is worth very good QB money because he can make very good QBs look bad.

 

[Akrasian]

Well, I was responding to a comment that a DT will never have the same kind of, potential for, or options to impact the game as a QB, any QB, and salary must reflect that positional value judgement, REGARDLESS of the talent displayed by the individual player. I don't agree with that.

Let's leave Ryan Fitzpatrick out of this for a minute and look at the top 1/4 of QB salaries as you mentioned. Alex Smith signed a 4 year, $94 million contract with the Redskins. He is right on the cusp of the top 1/4 QBs, ranking eighth and his salary averages $23.5 M per year. Right in between the $21M we think has been offered and the $25M we think has been demanded.

And FWIW, Garappolo averages $27M per year and Derek Carr averages $25M, so does that make any sense compared to what Donald might want? In comparison to QBs, maybe Donald isn't asking for too much but some QBs are grossly overpaid by comparison?

Okay, first off - YOU mentioned the top 1/4 of QBs. I actually said I thought more than that had a greater value than Donald. I don't know exactly where the cutoff is, but likely closer to half than a quarter.

You bring up Garappolo and Carr, two guys who after showing some good performance were signed to huge contracts. That actually shows how much teams value the chance of having a good QB. Garappolo especially was a situation where the 49ers had to sign him or lose him to free agency, and were willing to take a risk for a potentially huge reward. But even if their contracts were mistakes, I hope you're not arguing that since the Niners made a mistake in a contract, that the Rams should do the same. However, since it's the case that teams do give big gambles of contracts in the hopes of a young player showing that he's worth it - and yet they don't do that for DTs - shows that in the NFL teams don't feel that DTs are worth such a gamble, while QBs can be.

Your Alex Smith example would seem to show that AD is worth less than $23.5 million.

Why a position is worth less should be obvious. Defenders can more easily be schemed against to reduce their impact. Last season, when AD was great at his position, best defensive player in the league, he had 11 sacks, 41 tackles and assisted tackles, 5 forced fumbles. Fantastic for a DT/3-4 DE. Still, only a handful of plays in a game. Yes there were hurries too. But not every tackle was exactly a game changer - teams did game him, did end up gaining yardage on some of those tackles, etc.

Now, how much effect on a game does a good QB have? How many extra completions, how much farther are they, how many turnovers are avoided by good QBs compared to easily replaceable ones. Flat out, I will say that the yardage, TDS, and interceptions will be radically better for the good QB than the replaceable one. The running game will be better too, since as we saw repeatedly over the past 14 seasons, the defense can focus on a good RB if there isn't a real threat from the QB. The difference is far more than what a DT having a fantastic season can do, and every team knows it. That is why the Redskins would trade good value for a quality game manager and immediately sign him to a big contract. They know that without a good QB they have no real hope of competing in today's NFL.

And THAT is why it would be insane to pay AD like he were a good QB. You can't overpay routinely, even if a player is great. The Rams have too many expiring contracts to waste resources.

 

[Jacobarch]

Honestly, when they signed Suh I actually assumed he was an insurance policy of sorts. And I agree with you 100%, while Wade absolutely would love to have that combination of Donald, Suh, and Brockers, I would still have very high expectations for the Rams this year even without Donald.

Donald wont sit. He can't, it actually hurts him more than it helps him. He knows this, he's just playing the blinking game. He's gonna lose.

 

[Steve808]

Let me start by saying I don't know what AD is thinking and I do hope the Rams pay him and get the season started. That said, let's look at the potential outcomes.

AD sits and doesn't play in 2018. Aren't we right back here in the same situation in 2019?

Or, AD reports to camp by 8/7/18 and plays. No extension, becomes a UFA and signs with the highest bidder in 2019.

Are there many other likely scenarios?

 

[nighttrain]

We trade him in the off season after tagging him
train

 

[Jacobarch]

Let me start by saying I don't know what AD is thinking and I do hope the Rams pay him and get the season started. That said, let's look at the potential outcomes.

AD sits and doesn't play in 2018. Aren't we right back here in the same situation in 2019?

Or, AD reports to camp by 8/7/18 and plays. No extension, becomes a UFA and signs with the highest bidder in 2019.

Are there many other likely scenarios?

Here you go.

AD sits and yes we're right back to where we started. However, here's the kicker...We own him for 3 more years no matter what he does. Since he was a 1st round draft pick we have the right to Tag him for 2 seasons beyond his rookie deal. So in reality we have him for 3 more seasons for much cheaper than it would be to pay the man what he wants.
I honestly think this is the route the Rams are going to take. He's going to play, he's not gonna sit out 3 years and lose out on Millions and Millions of dollars, it's just not going to happen.
He can however request a trade but no team is going to take a guy that's going to require giving away 15% of your cap to a fucking DT. Sorry it's just not gonna happen with ANY team. Well, maybe the browns pay that but that's reason why they suck and will always suck. Anyways, I'm getting away from the point. In short he holds no cards (just his dick) and the rams hold all the cards and they know it.
Problem is people on this board get emotional about this nonsense.

 

[nighttrain]

just for kicks, how about a poll
train

 

[LesBaker]

You mean you and LOTS of Ram fans will be unhappy if the Rams aren't willing to pay AD $25mil? Really? I kinda doubt that. I think most fans are already thinking AD should sign at $21mil.

It's confusing in the way it's phrased. The word "they" must have thrown you off..........I meant Donald and his agent not the Rams.

I think fans will be upset that he and his agent turned up their noses at 25MIL a year.

I don't think the Rams are going north of that.

 

[RamFan503]

It's confusing in the way it's phrased. The word "they" must have thrown you off..........I meant Donald and his agent not the Rams.

I think fans will be upset that he and his agent turned up their noses at 25MIL a year.

I don't think the Rams are going north of that.

I think most fans would take issue if he turned his nose up at anything north of $20 - 22mil.

 

[Jacobarch]

I think most fans would take issue if he turned his nose up at anything north of $20 - 22mil.

It's at that point where it's not about money it's about ego and pride. You can't keep a team intact with character like that.

 

[Mackeyser]

What the WHAT is "but he may have a massive chip on his shoulder for being so underpaid for so long".

The ball has been in Donald's court on what he was to be paid ever since he initially signed with the Rams:

1) Donald and his agent signed a 4 year contract knowing there was an optional 5th year.
2) The Rams could not renegotiate a contract with Donald until after his 3rd year
3) The Rams reportedly offer a contract extension coming into 4th year that would have made him the highest paid defensive player - which Donald did not agree to
4) The Rams reportedly offer a contract extension coming into 5th year that would make him the highest paid defensive player - which so far Donald hasn't accepted and reportedly Donald/agent are insulted by

If this is accurate the ball is in Donald's court to remove that chip and live with the past decisions/predicaments.

I don’t disagree with any of that. What is and what works for the Rams are two different things.

 

[snackdaddy]

I think most fans would take issue if he turned his nose up at anything north of $20 - 22mil.

You can lump me in that group. I think 22 mil is extremely fair. A lot of reports are coming out he wants north of 25 mil. If that is true, I'd rather they take their chances with the exclusive franchise tag. I have to think its true. Otherwise wouldn't one side or the other dispute that? If someone wants to pay him more than 25 mil and surrender two picks, I think they would have to take that.

Someone might be desperate enough to pay that +25 mil, but I just can't see anyone surrendering two first round picks on top of that. If Donald wants to sit during the season and into next season, so be it. He's hurting himself more than the team.

 

[Akrasian]

Someone might be desperate enough to pay that +25 mil, but I just can't see anyone surrendering two first round picks on top of that.

I'm not sure I would demand two firsts. Maybe one, and various later picks over a few seasons.

But then while firsts are great, with good drafting for your system, I think the best value is in the second and third rounds. Much cheaper, still good players available without needing to get lucky. Occasionally trade up in the first to get a particular player, or trade for a player like the Rams did this offseason to get a star. But the Rams are approaching the number of stars they can afford while still maintaining needed depth.

 

[snackdaddy]

I'm not sure I would demand two firsts. Maybe one, and various later picks over a few seasons.

But then while firsts are great, with good drafting for your system, I think the best value is in the second and third rounds. Much cheaper, still good players available without needing to get lucky. Occasionally trade up in the first to get a particular player, or trade for a player like the Rams did this offseason to get a star. But the Rams are approaching the number of stars they can afford while still maintaining needed depth.

The non exclusive franchise tender requires two first round picks a team has to give the Rams if that team makes an offer the Rams don't match. If I'm the Rams I used that option if he sits out the whole season. Although I just can't see anyone offering him 25+ million and giving up two first round picks. I'm not sure anyone but a Brady/Rogers/Brees in their primes would be worth that.