Aaron Donald’s contract situation

[fearsomefour]

I don't pre-determine a player's worth based on the position they play; that's ignoring the player's abilities. At times, Donald can ruin the opposing offense's game plan by himself. He can make third and five almost impossible to convert.

He is 27 years old, so I don't think he can get two more big contacts. This is it for him and he wants an enormous contract, maybe with guarantees the teams doesn't want to make. I dunno.

A front loaded deal that is also back loaded......and loaded in the middle.

 

[Kevin]

Simple Question for anyone that cares to respond. Kurt Cousins is making 28 million this year and the following 2. Is Kurt Cousins a better football player than Aaron Donald?

Kirk Cousins has no pass rush moves and Aaron Donald cannot throw a spiral. That's for sure. Just saying we cannot objectively compare players at completely different positions on different teams.

 

[fearsomefour]

Kirk Cousins has no pass rush moves and Aaron Donald cannot throw a spiral. That's for sure. Just saying we cannot objectively compare players at completely different positions on different teams.

He certainly is not a better player in the sense Donald is an All Pro year in and year out and possible HOF guy if he can sustain it.
Cousins is a good QB.
The issue comparing these two is QB is such a massively more important positions it is apples and oranges.
Hekker is the best punter in football and a legit weapon and may be a HOF worthy guy before he is done....his pay would not surpass a good back up QB.
So it goes.

 

[RamDino]

Back to ignoring this thread until something happens with AD and his contract.

THREAD WINNER!! The dark side of the force is strong in here.

 

[Kevin]

He certainly is not a better player in the sense Donald is an All Pro year in and year out and possible HOF guy if he can sustain it.
Cousins is a good QB.
The issue comparing these two is QB is such a massively more important positions it is apples and oranges.
Hekker is the best punter in football and a legit weapon and may be a HOF worthy guy before he is done....his pay would not surpass a good back up QB.
So it goes.

There is nothing objective in your comparison; its just how you feel and that's fine. Hekker makes what backup qbs make, and special teamers can't be compared to full-time starters on offense or defense.

 

[1maGoh]

There is nothing objective in your comparison; its just how you feel and that's fine. Hekker makes what backup qbs make, and special teamers can't be compared to full-time starters on offense or defense.

But why can't you compare special teamers to fill time starters? The answer to that is the same answer to why you don't pay a DT the same amount as a QB, regardless of talent level. Different levels of maximum impact on the game.

And earlier you said that Donald is single handedly capable of working an offensive game plan. If it was that easy, he did have done it during the Falcons have. That's nothing against Donald. The reality is that it isn't that easy. Every DT still needs the rest of the defense to do their jobs in order for his success to have an impact. And good DT play only directly affects the D line and maybe the linebackers.

A QB can opt into or out of plays, choose where the balls go, place the balls to make it easier for the receiver, or run it themselves. No other position has that breadth of potential impact.

Less potential impact, less pay.

 

[fearsomefour]

There is nothing objective in your comparison; its just how you feel and that's fine. Hekker makes what backup qbs make, and special teamers can't be compared to full-time starters on offense or defense.

Comparing a QB and DT is just truth.
In the history of football forever and ever.

 

[fearsomefour]

But why can't you compare special teamers to fill time starters? The answer to that is the same answer to why you don't pay a DT the same amount as a QB, regardless of talent level. Different levels of maximum impact on the game.

This is my point.
A QB will always carry more value than a DT or a G for example. It's just the reality of game, esp now.
Take an "average" NFL starting QB and an average starting DT and look at those salaries.
It's absurd.

 

[Kevin]

But why can't you compare special teamers to fill time starters? The answer to that is the same answer to why you don't pay a DT the same amount as a QB, regardless of talent level. Different levels of maximum impact on the game.

Special teamers are in for a handful of plays and starters, well, they play more. They have a different role than a starter. It all different, don't you get it? It's an unfair comparison.

This is the same line of thinking that made Zygmunt pass on Troy Polamolu and take Jimmy Kennedy because you just don't draft safeties at #12 overall. pay the talent, pay the impact that player has on the game, not some preconceived notion of what a position is worth.

 

[1maGoh]

Special teamers are in for a handful of plays and starters, well, they play more. They have a different role than a starter. It all different, don't you get it? It's an unfair comparison.

This is the same line of thinking that made Zygmunt pass on Troy Polamolu and take Jimmy Kennedy because you just don't draft safeties at #12 overall. pay the talent, pay the impact that player has on the game, not some preconceived notion of what a position is worth.

I edited my previous post to clarify more and kind of addressed these points. A DT will never have the same kind of, potential for, or options to impact the game as a QB. Therefore, less pay.

 

[LesBaker]

I gotta think something happened. If its true that his agent was "Insulted" by their offer, perhaps both sides shut the door on each other. Which resulted in one side leaking information.

It feels like this is heating up and should lead to something.

Yes, all of this can and could be true. I feel like something is going to happen soon because as you say it's heating up.

His agent may have tossed out the "insulted" bit to the Rams to get them to do a little more than "meet me in the middle".

We don't know what his agent is asking for, all we have is a tweet with sources that say 25MIL and they were insulted. We don't know if it's true or not.

I suppose until we hear from Donald himself everything is just hearsay. But these leaks all coming out now are concerning. I'm beginning to think highest paid defensive player isn't going to be enough. And Donald is going to lose support among fans. We all know its a business. For fans the business is about winning.

Paying someone an amount that would cripple their ability to build a better team is not good business for the team or the fans. I'd love to see him locked up long term, but if the Rams are not going to pay him top tier quarterback money, I would have to side with them on it.

If it comes out that they wouldn't sign at 25MIL per year LOTS of Rams fans are going to be unhappy about that. Including me.

Our roster has some depth to it now... so WHO you pay is now a larger factor for us than years past.

Oh man this is a great point..........good players dotting the roster is valuable to long term success.

Just saying we cannot objectively compare players at completely different positions on different teams.

100% correct and trying to do that is not possible.

But the impact of different positions can be easily debated and quantified and there is no way a player, even one in the stratosphere like AD, can impact games at the DT position throughout a season like a good to excellent QB can at that position.

 

[Ramit]

Les, you truly think that AD is worth 25 Mil per? Idk man. I love AD in horns. But 25 mil per seems pretty steep. Taylor Lewan just signed a contract for 5 years with 50 MIL guaranteed. I just don't see a 5 year 125 Mil contract being reasonable.

 

[Ramit]

If Goff continues to improve the way he has, he becomes elite. How do you pay Goff and AD and keep our core together to stay a playoff team with a contract like that? Do we ask Goff to take a discount? That's not fair. Id take an Elite Goff over AD if it came down to the nitty gritty. But that's just me bro.

 

[Kevin]

I edited my previous post to clarify more and kind of addressed these points. A DT will never have the same kind of, potential for, or options to impact the game as a QB. Therefore, less pay.

So sayeth the 1maGoh. I don't believe in absolutes. I would rather have Aaron Donald than 3/4 of the starting QBs in the NFL.

 

[Akrasian]

So sayeth the 1maGoh. I don't believe in absolutes. I would rather have Aaron Donald than 3/4 of the starting QBs in the NFL.

Yes, AD is worth more than a bad, easily replaceable QB. He isn't worth as much as a good, hard to replace QB. I'd put the percentage as more than 1/4 of them, but you seem to be agreeing with the issue that by virtue of their playing position, QBs are more valuable than DTs, and that it doesn't take an elite QB to be more valuable than any DT.

Nobody here is saying that Ryan Fitzpatrick should be paid more than AD, just that Donald doesn't have the game value of good to very good QBs, nor merit being paid as such.

Off the immediate topic, but I was reading on a website that the Browns have $69 million in cap space. So they could pay Donald and have the total contract be manageable in future seasons. Not that they should, but they do have AD's former DC there, AND have a need to show strong improvement this season.

 

[Kevin]

Yes, AD is worth more than a bad, easily replaceable QB. He isn't worth as much as a good, hard to replace QB. I'd put the percentage as more than 1/4 of them, but you seem to be agreeing with the issue that by virtue of their playing position, QBs are more valuable than DTs, and that it doesn't take an elite QB to be more valuable than any DT.

Nobody here is saying that Ryan Fitzpatrick should be paid more than AD, just that Donald doesn't have the game value of good to very good QBs, nor merit being paid as such.

Off the immediate topic, but I was reading on a website that the Browns have $69 million in cap space. So they could pay Donald and have the total contract be manageable in future seasons. Not that they should, but they do have AD's former DC there, AND have a need to show strong improvement this season.

Well, I was responding to a comment that a DT will never have the same kind of, potential for, or options to impact the game as a QB, any QB, and salary must reflect that positional value judgement, REGARDLESS of the talent displayed by the individual player. I don't agree with that.

Let's leave Ryan Fitzpatrick out of this for a minute and look at the top 1/4 of QB salaries as you mentioned. Alex Smith signed a 4 year, $94 million contract with the Redskins. He is right on the cusp of the top 1/4 QBs, ranking eighth and his salary averages $23.5 M per year. Right in between the $21M we think has been offered and the $25M we think has been demanded.

And FWIW, Garappolo averages $27M per year and Derek Carr averages $25M, so does that make any sense compared to what Donald might want? In comparison to QBs, maybe Donald isn't asking for too much but some QBs are grossly overpaid by comparison?

 

[12intheBox]

Has anyone looked at what % of the cap number ADs demands would be compared to what .... say Von Miller’s contract was?

If not, one of you jump on that for us, would ya?

 

[…..]

Has anyone looked at what % of the cap number ADs demands would be compared to what .... say Von Miller’s contract was?

If not, one of you jump on that for us, would ya?

I'll guess 12% ....

But I can go look what exactly is the cap and get a better idea

 

[dieterbrock]

 

[…..]

177.2 mil for 2018

So higher than 12%... more like 14% of the total cap. Not sure how that compares to Vonn Miller