OFFICIAL 2022 NFL coaching carousel

[CGI_Ram]

I'll tell you what. I don't like this deal with coaches interviewing and getting "informally" hired before the team's season has ended.

For example, Kevin O'Connell, no matter what he says or does, loses an edge with the team knowing he's gone and off to Minnesota. It can't be ignored.

Yeah. They really need to hold all that shit until after the Super Bowl. I think the entire league benefits from that even though most will still be working their staffs behind the scenes.

No doubt. The NFL needs to figure this out.

 

[MachS]

No doubt. The NFL needs to figure this out.

Yea its ridiculous, not only has he interviewed twice in the last week...But he obviously already knows he's being hired for the HC job and is working now on filling out his coaching staff. The longer he waits to start recruiting his coaching staff, the worse options he will have since other new HCs have a head start. How in the fuck is this fair to us?? There is no way his focus is fully on the Super Bowl which is complete bullshit.

 

[CGI_Ram]

There is no way his focus is fully on the Super Bowl which is complete bullshit.

I’m with you. People can say what they want, but human nature is human nature. This is a big deal for KOC, he’s got one eye looking ahead. We all would.

I don’t like it.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I’m with you. People can say what they want, but human nature is human nature. This is a big deal for KOC, he’s got one eye looking ahead. We all would.

I don’t like it.

they have two weeks for the superbowl. theoretically he would have half the workload per day as he normally would for a game.

we all saw what happened when mcvay overloaded his brain before the last superbowl. an absolute shit show. i can't believe he wasn't ready for what the cheats did on defense when the bears showed him exactly what was coming and he better be ready for it.

.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yeah, but you were just speculating. Belicheat knew.

Maybe it's just like the draft. People talk. For instance, every team knew the Seahawks were picking Russell Wilson in round three. The Rams knew they couldn't wait any longer to pick Kupp, because they were told the Ravens were going to pick him with their next pick, etc,...

It wasnt speculating, it was connecting dots. They've been talking about Daboll as the coach on NY radio since Schoen was hired. Daboll would have had to absolutely chunked the interview to not get the job. But Flores was a top candidate, he did have a shot no matter how slim. If all they wanted was another token interview, there's plenty of guys they could have reached out to.

 

[dieterbrock]

That's a false equivalence. It's not unprincipled for Flores to want to land a job and be happy when he thinks he's going to get it. It's not unprincipled for him to be irate when he finds out that the Giants aren't really even considering him for the job but are still going to waste his time with an interview (possibly to satisfy the Rooney Rule).

It's not "if BB heard anything." The texts make very clear he did. And he made it sound like it was basically a done deal.

Its not false equivalence, its apples to apples. Flores contends that he is doing what he's doing to be the voice of the movement.
So given the same information from Belichick, and he gets the job, then by his logic the interview with Frazier after his was the very same sham. You cant have it both ways. Either you're the voice of the movement or you're the voice of the movement that you started because you didnt get the job.
BB was clearly pumping up one of his guys saying he hears that he's their guy. Then he says that "he thinks" they are naming Daboll.
Fact is, Flores had his shot. Went to dinner the night before the interview with Schoen. It's like Hackett in Denver. The minute he got the HC gig it was all but known Evero was getting the DC gig, but they still interviewed candidates. Where's the outrage?

 

[jrry32]

Its not false equivalence, its apples to apples. Flores contends that he is doing what he's doing to be the voice of the movement.
So given the same information from Belichick, and he gets the job, then by his logic the interview with Frazier after his was the very same sham. You cant have it both ways. Either you're the voice of the movement or you're the voice of the movement that you started because you didnt get the job.

No, it's not apples to apples. You have to impute knowledge to Flores that you have no proof he had. How would he know that Leslie Frazier is interviewing after him? Hell, had the Giants even set that interview yet when the BB-Flores conversation happened? It's a false equivalence. And finally, like any person, Flores is undoubtedly thinking of himself in that private moment. The idea that a person has to be a saint to start a "movement" is ridiculous.

BB was clearly pumping up one of his guys saying he hears that he's their guy. Then he says that "he thinks" they are naming Daboll.

He said he heard it from NYG and Buffalo. He wasn't guessing.

Fact is, Flores had his shot. Went to dinner the night before the interview with Schoen. It's like Hackett in Denver. The minute he got the HC gig it was all but known Evero was getting the DC gig, but they still interviewed candidates. Where's the outrage?

If somebody who interviews with Denver for the DC job gets pissed, I won't blame them. Denver can't talk to Evero about the job yet. I would guess their rationale is that he could always turn them down. Fact is that "getting your shot" doesn't mean interviewing with an organization that already has decided to hire somebody else.

 

[dieterbrock]

No, it's not apples to apples. You have to impute knowledge to Flores that you have no proof he had. How would he know that Leslie Frazier is interviewing after him? Hell, had the Giants even set that interview yet when the BB-Flores conversation happened? It's a false equivalence. And finally, like any person, Flores is undoubtedly thinking of himself in that private moment. The idea that a person has to be a saint to start a "movement" is ridiculous.

Its entirely apples to apples, you are just refusing to engage in the conversation. Had he been the "Brian" in the text convo, the same circumstances would have arisen, they still needed the Frazier interview. he would have known the Giants circumvented the process however in that case it would have benefitted him thus no action needed. You're clearly too biased in your opinion to see this. Personally, I wanted Flores for the Giants job and know there are people inside the organization who wanted him too. He had a chance to win over Schoen, and maybe the deck was stacked against him 90-10, but it was still a chance. Frazier had literally no chance

He said he heard it from NYG and Buffalo. He wasn't guessing.

He was guessing when he said "I think they are naming Daboll". He didnt say they were definitively giving him the job. Again, he was clrearly trying to pump up his guy when he said that he hears he's their guy. Again, its a text, and the wording can be perceived in many different ways if one reads it with an unbiased opinion
How many texts have you ever sent that didnt come out the way you meant it?

 

[blackbart]

I think it was created because old racist white men kept hiring the same retread shit white coaches after they failed miserably.

If the old coots just signed the best man for the job none of it would have happened.

.

That’s not why it was created

I agree with the signing the best candidate.

 

[Neil039]

A fired Head Coach is not entitled to the next open Head Coaching job. Especially a Head Coach with a losing record and no signs of developing the most important position on the field (QB) IMO

Suck it up buttercup and return to a coordinator position and build up your resume again.
Norv Turner is the best example I can think of for this type of situation.

 

[jrry32]

Its entirely apples to apples, you are just refusing to engage in the conversation.

Nope, it's not. I already explained why.

Had he been the "Brian" in the text convo, the same circumstances would have arisen, they still needed the Frazier interview. he would have known the Giants circumvented the process however in that case it would have benefitted him thus no action needed. You're clearly too biased in your opinion to see this.

My understanding is that's incorrect. Flores's interview satisfied the Rooney Rule.

He was guessing when he said "I think they are naming Daboll". He didnt say they were definitively giving him the job. Again, he was clrearly trying to pump up his guy when he said that he hears he's their guy. Again, its a text, and the wording can be perceived in many different ways if one reads it with an unbiased opinion

He said he heard from NYG and Buffalo. He wasn't guessing. If he was just trying to pump Flores up, there's no reason to be like, "Oops, my bad, I actually meant Daboll." He was relaying information he had.

How many texts have you ever sent that didnt come out the way you meant it?

I've sent a few. But that was either due to a typo or my tone not coming across correctly. Neither was an issue here. Belichick explicitly said he heard it from NYG and Buffalo.

That’s not why it was created

I agree with the signing the best candidate.

That's basically why it was created.

What Work Remains for the Rooney Rule

The N.F.L. has made demonstrable, albeit imperfect, progress thanks to the Rooney Rule; college football is another story entirely.

www.newyorker.com

The Fritz Pollard Alliance owes its existence to the establishment of the Rooney Rule, in 2003, which requires that at least one minority candidate be interviewed for each head-coach vacancy in the N.F.L. (It was expanded to include general managers in 2007.) Though the rule is named for Dan Rooney, the foresighted owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers who led the diversity committee that recommended the rule’s implementation, the campaign began with two attorneys steeped in civil-rights law, Cyrus Mehri and Johnny Cochran, and was then actively taken up by two former N.F.L. players, Kellen Winslow and John Wooten. Around the same time the rule was enacted, Wooten and Winslow put together the alliance as a self-described “affinity group” of minority scouts, coaches, and front-office personnel. In effect, the group has served since then as a kind of institutional conscience for bringing racial equality to N.F.L. hiring.

The catalyst for the Rooney Rule was the firing, in 2002, of two African-American head coaches: Tony Dungy, by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and Dennis Green, by the Minnesota Vikings. It had been Green’s first season with a losing record in ten years as head coach; Dungy became the first coach with a winning record to be fired by the Bucs. In a study released later that year, Mehri and Cochran demonstrated that even though black head coaches won a higher percentage of games, they were less likely to be hired and more likely to be fired than their white counterparts.

 

[jrry32]

A fired Head Coach is not entitled to the next open Head Coaching job. Especially a Head Coach with a losing record and no signs of developing the most important position on the field (QB) IMO

Suck it up buttercup and return to a coordinator position and build up your resume again.
Norv Turner is the best example I can think of for this type of situation.

The HC with a losing record overachieved each year in Miami and is coming off back-to-back winning seasons. The issue isn't whether he's "entitled" to a job. The issue is whether the NFL is discriminating in hiring. And if we want to talk something you're not allowed to do, that's definitely something you're not allowed to do. (There is also the issue of Miami potentially retaliating against him for refusing to throw games.) "Suck it up" is an awfully tone-deaf response to the allegations.

 

[12intheBox]

As I understand it - under the Rooney Rule each team needs to interview 2 different minority candidates from outside the organization. For the Giants, those two candidates were Frazier and Flores. They needed both interviews to satisfy the rule.

 

[blackbart]

My understanding is that's incorrect. Flores's interview satisfied the Rooney Rule.

He said he heard from NYG and Buffalo. He wasn't guessing. If he was just trying to pump Flores up, there's no reason to be like, "Oops, my bad, I actually meant Daboll." He was relaying information he had.

I've sent a few. But that was either due to a typo or my tone not coming across correctly. Neither was an issue here. Belichick explicitly said he heard it from NYG and Buffalo.

That's basically why it was created.

What Work Remains for the Rooney Rule

The N.F.L. has made demonstrable, albeit imperfect, progress thanks to the Rooney Rule; college football is another story entirely.

www.newyorker.com

The Fritz Pollard Alliance owes its existence to the establishment of the Rooney Rule, in 2003, which requires that at least one minority candidate be interviewed for each head-coach vacancy in the N.F.L. (It was expanded to include general managers in 2007.) Though the rule is named for Dan Rooney, the foresighted owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers who led the diversity committee that recommended the rule’s implementation, the campaign began with two attorneys steeped in civil-rights law, Cyrus Mehri and Johnny Cochran, and was then actively taken up by two former N.F.L. players, Kellen Winslow and John Wooten. Around the same time the rule was enacted, Wooten and Winslow put together the alliance as a self-described “affinity group” of minority scouts, coaches, and front-office personnel. In effect, the group has served since then as a kind of institutional conscience for bringing racial equality to N.F.L. hiring.

The catalyst for the Rooney Rule was the firing, in 2002, of two African-American head coaches: Tony Dungy, by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and Dennis Green, by the Minnesota Vikings. It had been Green’s first season with a losing record in ten years as head coach; Dungy became the first coach with a winning record to be fired by the Bucs. In a study released later that year, Mehri and Cochran demonstrated that even though black head coaches won a higher percentage of games, they were less likely to be hired and more likely to be fired than their white counterparts.

No, it was create because of the misconception that there was some bias and to appease public opinion that gives race consideration in hiring practices is “fair”.

 

[den-the-coach]

FWIW I don't think the Giants did anything wrong here, but I believe the Belichick text sent Flores over the top because of everything that happened previously. Dolphins owner Stephen Ross IMO is questionable. He once interviewed former Raven Coach Brian Billick just to tell him losing to the Dolphins (their only win that year under Cam Cameron) cost him money when purchasing the Dolphins from Wayne Huizenga.

As to John Elway being drunk, I believe that too. I have no factual evidence, but Elway looks like a drinker to me and God knows I've been around enough of them. Again, the Belichick text as @dieterbrock communicated might have been just opinion as we had been posting on how I thought that Daboll would be their choice once they hired Joe Schoen, it doesn't take a degree in Molecular genetics to figure out that an executive from an organization might hire an assistant coach from that same organization that he knows well and feels he has the goods to be a Head Coach.

That all being posted, I do believe the hiring of Nathaniel Hackett & the Jaguars not hiring Bryon Leftwich because he wanted to work with his own executive is disappointing. Also you would think with 9 openings, that Flores would get one of those jobs. He did have back to back winning seasons and Ross offering money to lose is more of the issue, but I hope that this issue can improve as they are from an executive standpoint because there some merit, however, it also can be over the top, but sometimes you need to do that in order for action.

 

[12intheBox]

FWIW I don't think the Giants did anything wrong here,

Just to play this out - do you believe that the Giants decided on who their coach was going to be and then had an interview with a black candidate just to satisfy the Rooney rule - and that doing it that way is not “wrong”? Or are you saying that you don’t believe that that’s what happened?

 

[OldSchool]

Just to play this out - do you believe that the Giants decided on who their coach was going to be and then had an interview with a black candidate just to satisfy the Rooney rule - and that doing it that way is not “wrong”? Or are you saying that you don’t believe that that’s what happened?

Following the rules is wrong? I think picking a guy before you interview options is stupid. I also think the Rooney rule is badly written and the result is these exact kind of pointless interviews.

 

[dieterbrock]

Nope, it's not. I already explained why.

My understanding is that's incorrect. Flores's interview satisfied the Rooney Rule.

He said he heard from NYG and Buffalo. He wasn't guessing. If he was just trying to pump Flores up, there's no reason to be like, "Oops, my bad, I actually meant Daboll." He was relaying information he had.

I've sent a few. But that was either due to a typo or my tone not coming across correctly. Neither was an issue here. Belichick explicitly said he heard it from NYG and Buffalo.

What he exactly said was "I hear from Buf and NYG that you are their guy. Hope it works out if you want it to"
So yeah, taking off the BB is a scum glasses, and understanding that he clearly has many of his coaches and former coaches reaching out to him, it can read like he's pumping the guy up. Hope it works out? Cmon man... There's no definitive in that.
Then what was also said, "Sorry, I fucked this up. I double checked & misread the text. I think they are naming Daboll."
Again, I think? Yeah, that is synonymous with I'm guessing.
Those are the exact words, and can easily be perceived in more than 1 way, unless one wants to see only 1 POV.
If he was the guy, they would have still needed to interview Frazier and his complaint is exactly the same.
Except he gets the job, this wasnt an issue. Apples to Apples

 

[den-the-coach]

Just to play this out - do you believe that the Giants decided on who their coach was going to be and then had an interview with a black candidate just to satisfy the Rooney rule - and that doing it that way is not “wrong”? Or are you saying that you don’t believe that that’s what happened?

I don't believe that's what happened, I believe Flores had an excellent chance for the job. Now do I believe that Leslie Frazier was interviewed to satisfy the Rooney rule? That answer is yes, but let's keep in mind that the Steelers were going to hire Russ Grimm to replace Bill Cowher, but they interviewed Mike Tomlin because of the Rooney Rule and come off so impressed, they hired Tomlin.

It all hinges on conducting the interview and IMO, Flores received two interviews from the Giants including a tour of the facility and dinner with the owners so I believe he had a legitimate shot at the job and just finished as the runner up.

I feel I could fix this for the NFL by doing the following:

1. Get rid of the Rooney Rule

2. Any team that hires a black head coach gets an added pick at the end of the first round of the draft.

 

[dieterbrock]

Just to play this out - do you believe that the Giants decided on who their coach was going to be and then had an interview with a black candidate just to satisfy the Rooney rule - and that doing it that way is not “wrong”? Or are you saying that you don’t believe that that’s what happened?

I think they complied with the Rooney rule and hired the guy that they wanted.
I also believe they hired the wrong guy but that's neither here nor there