Wyche: Rams getting Goff ready

[Dieter the Brock]

That implies that Goff would have won all the games the Rams lost, and nobody knows that. Further implies that Goff would have also won all the games the Rams won by not doing less than Keenum did. Nobody knows that either. We can all assume he would have, but that's all we can do based on our own biases.

Nobody botched anything. He just wasn't ready, and Fisher said multiple times that he didn't want to put him in a position to fail. He didn't want him out there doing what he did in preseason. Missing calls, not recognizing defenses, not knowing when to audible, not knowing what to audible into, and all the other little things that nobody on this board was privy to in practice. Just because some people 'ooh' and 'ahhh' at practice now doesn't mean he was a complete QB a month ago. It just means he can throw a nice ball, and we all knew he could do that anyway.

Fisher simply has a different plan for preparing Goff that doesn't align with other people's plans (who have no affiliation with the Organization). That's all. There is no refuting that irrefutable fact. It's just a different plan and nothing less. Suggesting it's more than that, or that it's a bad plan, takes you into the realm of subjectivity.

Now let me start your reply for you.

"No...."

You can argue that although Fisher said he didn't want to put Goff in a position to fail that he indirectly has done just that - put him in a failed position

Just look at all the speculation floating around non-stop with how Goff isn't catching the blitz or hoe Mannion is the preferred choice - i mean how do you access the growth of a player holding the clipboard? You can't. It doesn't exist, cause there is no advantage to sitting otherwise Mannion who has sat for longer should be fsrther along than Goff. I guarsntee you (purely speculation) that Goff confidence has not increased on measure since being drafted by Fisher and Co

 

[-X-]

I guarsntee you (purely speculation) that Goff confidence has not increased on measure since being drafted by Fisher and Co

That goes against everything Goff, himself, has said.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

That goes against everything Goff, himself, has said.

What i miss? Has Goff said he loves riding the pine? Argh

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

This is the one aggressive move I support happening this season. I don't put all of their woes on him, but you certainly have to consider looking there when you consider the return of investment in the o line.

Definitely, especially when you see successful teams move on from talented but non-cap friendly veterans seamlessly.

 

[dieterbrock]

You tell me, did they win. They being the team, right. Did the team win? Could Keenum have had a better performance? Possibly one or two plays but that would not have helped the defense holdup their end of the game would it?

Keenum has not won or lost any of the games this year by himself. Neither has Donald or Gurley or Demoff.

You pointed to 1 game, actually not even a whole game a portion of one, to defend Keenum's sub par season play.
He is not playing on the level that Warner, Brees or even Kitna played when their prize rookie rode the bench.
That's why this is a botch because it was predicated on the team and Keenum having success.
Keenum has the 2nd most INT, the 5th worst passer rating while the team is 30th in scoring. All of which is what was feared in starting Goff. None of these variables are an improvement from years past in some ways its even a set back

Oh and no they didn't win that game. Despite Keenum heroics, his game clinching INT sealed their fate

 

[-X-]

What i miss? Has Goff said he loves riding the pine? Argh

No, he said that he has gained confidence, understanding, and comfort in the system where he previously had very little. He said he understands why he didn't start. Anyway. If his confidence is effected by not starting, then he's nothing like what they thought he was.

 

[Fatbot]

With QBs, I think it all comes down to who you got. I don't know of any Giants fans or Ravens fans who care what they traded for Eli or Flacco. If you get a franchise QB, you don't regret giving up what you did. If you don't, you do. It's all about whether Goff succeeds or fails.

Yes the "who they got" is of course the greatest input. At a certain point Goff's play itself can justify the trade, but the question is where that happens. Will it take a Super Bowl win (Eli, Flacco) or few 11-5 seasons (Luck), or what? Once that criteria of "franchise QB" is met, then the other input is fairly irrelevant but it still exists. For example there's still even people that wonder what if the Houston Rockets had traded the #1 pick and ended up with Michael Jordan instead of "just" Olajuwon. Fair or not the success of Dak & Wentz & the rest of the draft class will be a factor in the final tally of whether the Goff trade was worth it.

 

[dieterbrock]

No, he said that he has gained confidence, understanding, and comfort in the system where he previously had very little. He said he understands why he didn't start. Anyway. If his confidence is effected by not starting, then he's nothing like what they thought he was.

Well, I don't know how much stock we could put in that, as what we've "heard" has mostly been as a result of being asked leading questions. Meaning, if he answered, "I'm learning a thing or two, but nothing can get me ready like playing the game" he'd be viewed as a malcontent

 

[blackbart]

You pointed to 1 game, actually not even a whole game a portion of one, to defend Keenum's sub par season play.
He is not playing on the level that Warner, Brees or even Kitna played when their prize rookie rode the bench.
That's why this is a botch because it was predicated on the team and Keenum having success.
Keenum has the 2nd most INT, the 5th worst passer rating while the team is 30th in scoring. All of which is what was feared in starting Goff. None of these variables are an improvement from years past in some ways its even a set back

Oh and no they didn't win that game. Despite Keenum heroics, his game clinching INT sealed their fate

Only 2 of the 7 games below 60% completion percentage with 11 drops. Has he been throwing the team to wins no but that was never supposed to be his calling on this team. If the defense does its job in that game there is no need for that last desperate drive to try and win. You can't pin all the ints on him either several have been caused by his receivers, they have hurt his number as much or more than they have helped. I don't expect them to do any better with Goff when he gets his chance either.

 

[-X-]

Well, I don't know how much stock we could put in that, as what we've "heard" has mostly been as a result of being asked leading questions. Meaning, if he answered, "I'm learning a thing or two, but nothing can get me ready like playing the game" he'd be viewed as a malcontent

Who cares how he'd be viewed? Those were his honest feelings and answers about how he's progressing. He said he has "much more" confidence, and "much more" comfort in the system. Those are the only things that should matter as it relates to the inquiry posed to me about his confidence levels being effected by not playing. I was only responding that his confidence has indeed risen by sitting on the bench.

 

[dieterbrock]

Who cares how he'd be viewed? Those were his honest feelings and answers about how he's progressing. He said he has "much more" confidence, and "much more" comfort in the system. Those are the only things that should matter as it relates to the inquiry posed to me about his confidence levels being effected by not playing. I was only responding that his confidence has indeed risen by sitting on the bench.

His responses are prepared, and fairly cliché. In any event unless asked the question of "would you learn more by playing then watching" his responses IMO are pretty non-binding

 

[dieterbrock]

Only 2 of the 7 games below 60% completion percentage with 11 drops. Has he been throwing the team to wins no but that was never supposed to be his calling on this team. If the defense does its job in that game there is no need for that last desperate drive to try and win. You can't pin all the ints on him either several have been caused by his receivers, they have hurt his number as much or more than they have helped. I don't expect them to do any better with Goff when he gets his chance either.

You can paint a pig any color(s) you like, its still a pig.
And if Goff had put up similar numbers, wins etc then that would have been the right move.
When the examples of Manning, Palmer, Rodgers and Rivers are mentioned, the placeholder was significantly better than Keenum
The results have been poor, 17 ppg, a lot of turnovers and terrible passer rating, Make all the excuses that you like, but he's not cutting it

 

[PressureD41]

With Goffs quick release and ability to put the ball anywhere he wants, teams will actually have to pick their poison, Gurley or Goff. Play action over the top to QUICK.

fixed it for ya

 

[PressureD41]

Well, I don't know how much stock we could put in that, as what we've "heard" has mostly been as a result of being asked leading questions. Meaning, if he answered, "I'm learning a thing or two, but nothing can get me ready like playing the game" he'd be viewed as a malcontent

I think, the learning the finer details leading up too the bye week, before entering the line of fire is a big part of Fisher's grooming and will be a big part of assumed success Goff will/should have when he steps onto the field in the next week or two..JMHO

 

[blackbart]

You can paint a pig any color(s) you like, its still a pig.
And if Goff had put up similar numbers, wins etc then that would have been the right move.
When the examples of Manning, Palmer, Rodgers and Rivers are mentioned, the placeholder was significantly better than Keenum
The results have been poor, 17 ppg, a lot of turnovers and terrible passer rating, Make all the excuses that you like, but he's not cutting it

He's doing what they expected of him. Goff is fantasy land and untill he gets it together enough to convince Fisher to let him play that is all he can be.

I want him to be the guy for the next decade not the next 3 games and then be a pile of wasted potential

 

[-X-]

His responses are prepared, and fairly cliché. In any event unless asked the question of "would you learn more by playing then watching" his responses IMO are pretty non-binding

Well to be clear, dieter, you're saying that he's bullshitting people now. He said, "I'm getting better, and I'm really comfortable *now*, so I'm just waiting for my number to be called." Also said that with knowledge and reps, comes confidence (he offered that word). This just seems to be confirmation bias I'm hearing now. Are you suggesting that he's always been ready, had no issues or unfamiliarity with the system, and was ready to go from jump? Never had any trepidation, especially considering what we saw in preseason?

 

[Dieter the Brock]

No, he said that he has gained confidence, understanding, and comfort in the system where he previously had very little. He said he understands why he didn't start. Anyway. If his confidence is effected by not starting, then he's nothing like what they thought he was.

Take what he has said with a grain of salt, I mean he can't very well say he's digressed can he?

I bet a million ROD dollars that Goff may understand why he isn't starting but doesn't mean he agrees with it - and we will never know cause he's not gonna say what he really thinks just what he's supposed to say

 

[-X-]

Take what he has said with a grain of salt, I mean he can't very well say he's digressed can he?

I bet a million ROD dollars that Goff may understand why he isn't starting but doesn't mean he agrees with it - and we will never know cause he's not gonna say what he really thinks just what he's supposed to say

I can't speak to his frame of mind (e.g., whether or not he agrees with not starting), but I do take him at his word when he elaborates on how he's gained confidence and comfort in the system by running the scout team all this time. I can't see any reason why he'd make that up. It only makes sense that it would happen. And why would he digress - let alone say that? You can only get more comfortable with what you're doing by repping it in practice (which he also said).

 

[Ajb44]

They're back practicing today right? Eager to hear fisher speak later today

 

[dieterbrock]

Well to be clear, dieter, you're saying that he's bullshitting people now. He said, "I'm getting better, and I'm really comfortable *now*, so I'm just waiting for my number to be called." Also said that with knowledge and reps, comes confidence (he offered that word). This just seems to be confirmation bias I'm hearing now. Are you suggesting that he's always been ready, had no issues or unfamiliarity with the system, and was ready to go from jump? Never had any trepidation, especially considering what we saw in preseason?

I'm saying that he's saying what he's supposed to be said. Almost cliché like.
The kid has been the starting QB since he was in middle school, there's no doubt he thinks he should be out there playing
All things considered, I don't take much stock in what is said about players, or what they say because for the most part its scripted. Supporting the HC and they way he's being brought along is no shock