The Most Important Player the Rams had, and Let get-away!?

[Thordaddy]

Concur, however, the "Marmie" hiring cemented the feud between Zygmunt & Martz and in the end Shaw went with Zygmunt and added the title of "General Manager" to a man that never touched a football in his life. It didn't help that Martz got sick as well because IMO if they have brought in a Bona Fide General Manager to work with Martz, it would've been far better than the hiring of Milquetoast Linehan.

The Anti-Martz

 

[So Ram]

I'd like to have held on to Bradley Fletcher. He went to Philly and quickly became their top cornerback. We sure could have used him last year!

Never understood why Fisher didn't like him.Fisher put him on special teams,and he never complained.I personally think The Rams now will be in better shape without him.

Rams are now built for future.The CB position should be a strength.I think TRU is better & JJ if he add some strength(muscle)in the off season can be a pro Bowler.

I'm going to take that your a younger Ram fan ? Do you like any of the new CB.If your a college fan from the show me State.I don't think there was a better CB than Gaines.He was fun to watch.
Bradley has those long arms & is a shut down CB.Would have fit Williams defense well.The problem was always going to be if his knees would hold up & his speed.

 

[den-the-coach]

The Anti-Martz

If they truly wanted the Anti-Martz or the antithesis of Martz that would have been Ron Rivera who I wanted at the time. Rivera was a defensive coach that played at the NFL level and proved in Carolina that he's just a hard nosed football coach nothing else.

Rivera had been the front runner, but his first interview was not the best, but that was because the Bears just go done playing a game. After the Linehan interview and him telling Shaw & Zygmunt (Dumb & Dumber when it came to football) that he could get Jim Bates or Jim Haslett as DC the Rams liked that combination better than Ron Rivera and Wade Wilson as offensive coordinator.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Coach Vermeil retiring will always be the missing part of the dynasty that should have been. What if Walsh would have walked away from the 49's after winning the first one? That's what happened to us. The glue that held it all together went off into the sunset only to realize it was a mistake.

Agree except he left us. Rams did really let him "get away" per the OP.

 

[…..]

Coach Vermeil retiring will always be the missing part of the dynasty that should have been. What if Walsh would have walked away from the 49's after winning the first one? That's what happened to us. The glue that held it all together went off into the sunset only to realize it was a mistake.

I think two things happened....Vermiel got wrapped up in leaving the game on a high note. I also think we would have lost Mike Martz if Vermiel would have stayed, which is odd because Martz had the complete package here to showcase his schemes, but his ambition and ego would have led him down the trail thinking he could have the same success with any other group. As we have learned from Martz stints with Detroit ( although Kitna ran the offense quite well) and S.F. (injuries and Singletary derailed any success there) and Chicago where he got Jay Cutler murdered along the way to a 28th ranked passing attack, Martz's scheme was really dependent on excellent slot recieving and a great running back. He only had that luxury while he was with the Rams.

But Vermeil was a different kind of leader and I aggree the team would have been better if he had stayed.

Eric Dickerson leaving hurt me bad. We decided Jim Everett was going to be our leader and that bothered me.

Issac Bruce being allowed to leave was criminal.

Despite all of the above...I thought we completely lost our teams idnetity when Wendell Tyler left. So to me, at the time, that was the biggest.

 

[LesBaker]

For the life of me I can't see how any other player is even in this conversation. This was the single most boneheaded move by this franchise. Ever.

 

[Boffo97]

Concur, however, the "Marmie" hiring cemented the feud between Zygmunt & Martz and in the end Shaw went with Zygmunt and added the title of "General Manager" to a man that never touched a football in his life. It didn't help that Martz got sick as well because IMO if they have brought in a Bona Fide General Manager to work with Martz, it would've been far better than the hiring of Milquetoast Linehan.

Man, I would have loved to see Martz without Zygmunt, but WITH an actual good GM making the football decisions.

Also, I have to disagree that Vermeil would have been the missing cog in us getting a dynasty. Even with Vermeil, the defense still would have collapsed in 2000 and the fix still would have been in in 2001.

We likely would have drafted differently, and maybe done better after 2001, but as much as I would have loved to be wrong, I don't think we had the setup for a dynasty. Especially if Warner still gets hurt in our alternate history.

 

[Lunchbox]

While letting Warner get away was a huge mistake I have to wonder if he would have been able to resurrect his career with the complete dysfunction going on at the time. Between Martz's style of offense, the deterioration of the roster, particularly the O-line and his injuries maybe we'd be calling beat up QB's Warnerized instead of Bulgerized.
Warner was a tough SOB and a great QB but the team was headed downhill with or without him. Happy for him that he finally got a chance to repeat the success that he had here but I don't think it would have happened had he stayed. Our loss but his gain.

 

[Rams and Gators]

RGIII

 

[den-the-coach]

Also, I have to disagree that Vermeil would have been the missing cog in us getting a dynasty. Even with Vermeil, the defense still would have collapsed in 2000 and the fix still would have been in in 2001.

We likely would have drafted differently, and maybe done better after 2001, but as much as I would have loved to be wrong, I don't think we had the setup for a dynasty. Especially if Warner still gets hurt in our alternate history.

Have to disagree because Vermeil would've kept the tandem of Peter Giunta and John Bunting as co-defenisve coordinators. Now some believed like Martz that was overkill, bit it worked because it was Giunta's design from Bud Carson and Bunting did a great job motivating the troops at the field level. Martz scrapped the tandem did not renew Bunting's contract and hired Mike Haluchak as his new linebacker coach and put Giunta in total charge of the defense where he failed miserably.

In fact later on Vermeil admitted Bunting would have been his choice as DC after Carson's sudden retirement, but Giunta had a better grasp of the system being that he worked with Carson in Philadelphia. IMO I don't think the defense goes south with Bunting, but that's JMHO.

 

[Boffo97]

Have to disagree because Vermeil would've kept the tandem of Peter Giunta and John Bunting as co-defenisve coordinators. Now some believed like Martz that was overkill, bit it worked because it was Giunta's design from Bud Carson and Bunting did a great job motivating the troops at the field level. Martz scrapped the tandem did not renew Bunting's contract and hired Mike Haluchak as his new linebacker coach and put Giunta in total charge of the defense where he failed miserably.

In fact later on Vermeil admitted Bunting would have been his choice as DC after Carson's sudden retirement, but Giunta had a better grasp of the system being that he worked with Carson in Philadelphia. IMO I don't think the defense goes south with Bunting, but that's JMHO.

That's a decent point.

Of course we'll never know either way. Unless one of us finishes that time machine. But since future me hasn't shown up yet to tell me this week's lottery numbers...

 

[Memphis Ram]

For the life of me I can't see how any other player is even in this conversation. This was the single most boneheaded move by this franchise. Ever.

Perhaps because the drop from Warner to Bulger wasn't even close to the drop from Fletcher to Duncan. Not even in the same stratosphere.

 

[Boffo97]

Perhaps because the drop from Warner to Bulger wasn't even close to the drop from Fletcher to Duncan. Not even in the same stratosphere.

And if you look at only the current play level at the time, it wasn't a drop. (And considering our OL issues later, I sadly doubt Warner would have ever fully recovered with the Rams. Faulk has made similar statements.)

Whereas Duncan was out of the League 3 years after joining the Rams (2 with us, 1 with the Falcons)

 

[LesBaker]

Perhaps because the drop from Warner to Bulger wasn't even close to the drop from Fletcher to Duncan. Not even in the same stratosphere.

I'm a huge fan of Fletcher, I wish he had spent his entire career with the Rams. But if I had one mulligan it would be keeping Warner.

Even Martz himself has admitted it was a fuck up.

 

[Thordaddy]

If they truly wanted the Anti-Martz or the antithesis of Martz that would have been Ron Rivera who I wanted at the time. Rivera was a defensive coach that played at the NFL level and proved in Carolina that he's just a hard nosed football coach nothing else.

Rivera had been the front runner, but his first interview was not the best, but that was because the Bears just go done playing a game. After the Linehan interview and him telling Shaw & Zygmunt (Dumb & Dumber when it came to football) that he could get Jim Bates or Jim Haslett as DC the Rams liked that combination better than Ron Rivera and Wade Wilson as offensive coordinator.

I meant personality wise they wanted someone to make nice, a rubber stamp for Ziggy

 

[nighttrain]

For me the answer is Jack 'Hack-Saw' Reynolds! He Played for us @ MLB from 1970 to 1981. To me he was the Back-Bone of the Team! I screamed as load as I could at anyone that would Listen, that we would Pay For letting him go! He went to the 49ers, who up to that point in history WE OWNED! He taught them how to watch Film, and Train! And then they went on to when SB XVI and XIX before he retired! He was one of my very favorite Players! IMHO I was wright! (P.S. in case you didn't know he got his nick name after cutting a '53 Chevy in half after Losing a game to Ole Miss in College!) Who's your pick for the Rams most important Player Lost?

Hacksaw was great, but just one of many Georgia let go, or drove out of town, Letting London Fletcher go was just criminal, letting go of Warner was madness!
train

 

[DaveFan'51]

Hacksaw was great, but just one of many Georgia let go, or drove out of town, Letting London Fletcher go was just criminal, letting go of Warner was madness!
train

I wish I could blame Hack-Saws Lose on "Queen Georgia" But it wasn't her, It was her Late Husband Carroll Rosenbloom. He didn't make too many mistakes, that I can recall, IMHO the Big Two mistakes were Hooking-up with Georgia and letting Jack go!!

 

[den-the-coach]

I wish I could blame Hack-Saws Lose on "Queen Georgia" But it wasn't her, It was her Late Husband Carroll Rosenbloom. He didn't make too many mistakes, that I can recall, IMHO the Big Two mistakes were Hooking-up with Georgia and letting Jack go!!

Hooking up with Georgia was not a mistake, she was a dish in her day and despite many conspiracy theories to contrary, she did not have him killed. Rosenbloom mistake was leaving the team to her to avoid the inheritance tax although he knew his family could not afford that tax because Chip ended up selling years later after his mother's death. Overall we can only wonder what would've happen had Steve Rosenbloom ran the club. He did not do a good job in New Orleans as GM, but as an owner goes Georgia was very frustrating.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Hooking up with Georgia was not a mistake, she was a dish in her day and despite many conspiracy theories to contrary, she did not have him killed. Rosenbloom mistake was leaving the team to her to avoid the inheritance tax although he knew his family could not afford that tax because Chip ended up selling years later after his mother's death. Overall we can only wonder what would've happen had Steve Rosenbloom ran the club. He did not do a good job in New Orleans as GM, but as an owner goes Georgia was very frustrating.

I knew a Concessioner, at the L.A. Coliseum at that Time, and he told me up to the time of Rosenblooms death he had given "Strict" orders that Georgia was Never allowed to come their and be around the Team. And that everyone knew that he was Training Steve to take over the Team, and he was going to leave him the Team. So, he told me, everyone was surprised when the Will came out, and everything was the reverse of what they thought was going to happen. Take this for what it's worth rumor, whatever. It's just what I was told by someone I trusted.