Tavon Austin?

[Thordaddy]

My thing with Austin, and I am in no way trying to say he cannot or will not be a valuable part of this offense. But so many think BECAUSE of where he was drafted, that he has to be force fed the ball. He will never be the focal point of this offense. He is best served, and will be the most productive as accessory piece, who needs the others to produce to open things up for him.

There was a thread yesterday, in which Will Witherspoon broke down the "All 22" play in the Cleveland game. the pass from Hill to Britt along the sideline. If people go back and watch that play, see how Austin works himself wide open BEHIND the LB and has nothing but green grass in front of him. That happened BECAUSE Britt and Quick were drawing attention away from Austin. Not because Austin did anything special on the play.

If Schottenheimer made a mistake today, it was going in with the "plan" to get Austin the ball "twice a quarter" as he claimed. If this is true, its akin to the square peg/round hole principle to me. They need to incorporate him into the game plan just like any other player, not at the expense of them.

Yup he's not marshal Faulk and never will be,we did the same thing last year trying to force him to be a force, it does seem Shotty is more concerned with where TA was drafted than even some fans are..
BTW Givens made a hell of a catch today

 

[Memphis Ram]

I never believed in using a 1st round choice on any WR that didn't have the potential to be a #1 WR. Especially one so tiny (Have similar concern w/ using a 2nd round pick on Joyner at CB). But, he's here now and can still be a potential playmaker is used correctly.

I still haven't seen that fly or jet sweep he ran so well at West Virginia. And I love the idea of putting him in the backfield, but spread the field with WRs like they did at West Virginia.

Why is this so freaking hard? Have they tried this in practice and it just doesn't work?

 

[RaminExile]

That game was the blueprint for how to use him on offense.

1st offensive TD, he played outside and ran a simple 9 route. Made just a slight move to get past the CB and once he did that, it was nothing but speed. Clemens hit him on the move and it was an easy six after that.

Second offensive TD, started outside, motioned inside, ran a short crossing route off a pick that got him in space. Caught the ball on the run and then turned upfield, and at that point all he had to do is turn on his incredible jets and it was another easy six.

We should call at least one of each of those types of plays to Austin in every game we play.

Yeah you've got to get him in motion.

I'd like to try us do something even more creative with him. What have we got to lose at this point? Run the Wildcat with him a few times - some Jet Sweeps, or even go from the Gun with a rb in there, Austin in the slot - motion into the backfield and from there go either play action or read option!

 

[iamme33]

Shotty has no idea how to spring him loose like that OR Rams just don't have the blocking. We both know they have the blocking.[/QUOTE]

i don't know they have the blocking. i never see holes like that for anyone. its easy to blame shitty but at some point you have to look at the players

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

I was on board with the Austin pick, but if they could have a do over, not so sure they'd go that direction. (ya think)

 

[ZigZagRam]

size and route running matter....any wr that comes in with a limited skill set, bad measureables (like small hands) and lack of experience in a pro-style system will struggle. He's not a true wr, like Eddleman, Amendola, Cook, or any small wr. He caught bubble screens & hitches....He goes down easily...And this is the NFL...One of the greatest college players I ever saw was Reggie Bush, and it took him several seasons to become decent....and remember I saw Barry Sanders in college. I saw Billy Sims...The difference, Barry could really make people miss, and ran with power. You must be a powerful player, no matter how big or small you are.

Tavon is capable of running the full route tree and while he caught a high pct of screens in college he ran the full route tree and he did it at all levels of the field successfully.

There's no reason for him to be used in the way he's been used so far here in St. Louis. If Schottenheimer can't figure out how to use a player with his skillset, it was a wasted pick.

 

[WvuIN02]

If he goes through this season like that, tbh I hope the Rams can trade him for a pick to a team like Philly whose offense he would excel in. Teams are going to key on him when nobody is afraid of any of the Rams receivers. Britt looked like his old self yesterday, and it's going to take some consistency before Quick starts getting serious attention from defenses. Add in Schottenheimer + no QB worth mentioning to the mix and you have no wind in the teams sails when defenses are going to just stack the box where you get the measly 3.0 ypc that we all saw happen. It's hard to be optimistic about Austin's future here from my viewpoint when this OC is at the helm. Watching Philly absolutely stink in the first half then run off 34 points in a row in the second makes me wonder what TA would be capable of there. The contrast is striking.

 

[shaunpinney]

Our whole team & coaching staff pretty much stank - there were a couple of flashes, some nice tackles, a couple of nice catches, but that was it.

With regards to TA, he's getting killed in our offence and that will kill his confidence IMO. Can I ask a really stupid question, and please shoot me down in flames if I'm just being a bit thick - why can't we just have a look at the WVU highlight tapes, see which plays worked for him, I mean really worked and mix them into our playbook??? The way I look at is Tavon's physical attributes suit a particular style of play, we're NOT implementing that style at all, taking the weekends game, why try and get him run up the gut? Looking at Cordarelle Patterson, he looked the same as his highlight tape pre-draft, his gainly running style and elastic legs remind me a little of Eric Dickerson, just the whole uncomfortable elegance of it all - what I'm getting at is, they seem to have asked him to "just carry on being you", and are not asking him to play in a way he wouldn't succeed.

The more I keep watching I believe our WRs are being poorly coached, and I do think Schotty's time is up (and if Sunday was a season blueprint) Fisher too.

We have nothing to lose this year, we're without our QB for the whole season, so a 50% win rate would be an amazing feat in our division, why don't we just go a little crazy with our play calling??

 

[CoachO]

Our whole team & coaching staff pretty much stank - there were a couple of flashes, some nice tackles, a couple of nice catches, but that was it.

With regards to TA, he's getting killed in our offence and that will kill his confidence IMO. Can I ask a really stupid question, and please shoot me down in flames if I'm just being a bit thick - why can't we just have a look at the WVU highlight tapes, see which plays worked for him, I mean really worked and mix them into our playbook??? The way I look at is Tavon's physical attributes suit a particular style of play, we're NOT implementing that style at all, taking the weekends game, why try and get him run up the gut? Looking at Cordarelle Patterson, he looked the same as his highlight tape pre-draft, his gainly running style and elastic legs remind me a little of Eric Dickerson, just the whole uncomfortable elegance of it all - what I'm getting at is, they seem to have asked him to "just carry on being you", and are not asking him to play in a way he wouldn't succeed.

The more I keep watching I believe our WRs are being poorly coached, and I do think Schotty's time is up (and if Sunday was a season blueprint) Fisher too.

We have nothing to lose this year, we're without our QB for the whole season, so a 50% win rate would be an amazing feat in our division, why don't we just go a little crazy with our play calling??

so you are suggesting they change the entire offensive scheme to accommodate ONE player? If they go back to those WVU tapes and want to figure out what it would take to make him as comfortable as he was there, I think they will find they would need to recruit the Oklahoma defense (or most of the Big XII defenses for that matter) to play against.

 

[WvuIN02]

I just don't see the "fit" from TA to the Big 10 offenses of "3 yards and a cloud of dust" that Schottenheimer is known for. Both can work with the right personnel, but given the direction JF wants to take this offense, I just don't see it I guess. Square peg and round hole. As far as the WVU offense goes.....in college he was used FAR more in a Dasean Jackson way than just on sweeps and screens, and they don't use him that way here...and even then, they don't spread the field out with 4-5 receivers like he was used in college to get him in space. The splash run plays he made famous in the Clemson Orange Bowl where he had 4 tds is the youtube sensation stuff, but play in and out he was far more dangerous as a deep threat because they had to account for him going deep......and he is not used in that way.

 

[thirteen28]

I just don't see the "fit" from TA to the Big 10 offenses of "3 yards and a cloud of dust" that Schottenheimer is known for. Both can work with the right personnel, but given the direction JF wants to take this offense, I just don't see it I guess. Square peg and round hole. As far as the WVU offense goes.....in college he was used FAR more in a Dasean Jackson way than just on sweeps and screens, and they don't use him that way here...and even then, they don't spread the field out with 4-5 receivers like he was used in college to get him in space. The splash run plays he made famous in the Clemson Orange Bowl where he had 4 tds is the youtube sensation stuff, but play in and out he was far more dangerous as a deep threat because they had to account for him going deep......and he is not used in that way.

And yet Seattle finds a way to integrate Percy Harvin, a weapon very similar to Austin, into their offense. Just because we are a run first/run heavy offense doesn't mean we can't use Austin. Seattle has shown there is very much a place for such a player in that type of offense, our staff just hasn't figured it out yet.

 

[WvuIN02]

Harvin is a lot bigger than Austin. And lets not sugarcoat things from week 1. Comparing the Rams to the defending champs is just insane. Their defense just shat all over one of the best QBs and offenses in the NFL and can afford to have a power game mentality, while the Rams just got torched by a Matt Cassel led offense.

 

[thirteen28]

Harvin is a lot bigger than Austin. And lets not sugarcoat things from week 1. Comparing the Rams to the defending champs is just insane. Their defense just shat all over one of the best QBs and offenses in the NFL and can afford to have a power game mentality, while the Rams just got torched by a Matt Cassel led offense.

Harvin is bigger, but not by that much. He's still a small WR and still not large enough to be a #1. It's not as if we are comparing Austin to Megatron.

As far as the rest of your post, you completely missed the point, which was not to compare the Rams to the Seahawks. It was to note that the Seahawks have a player that is similar (read: not exactly alike but exhibiting many of the same traits) to Tavon, a player whom they have successfully integrated into an offense that is built around a run-first approach. That illustrates that it can be done. Our coaching staff just hasn't seemed to figure out how yet.

 

[TShram03]

He's played 14 NFL games.

He's scored 6 TDs. He's had two more called back.

He's still a young, ascending player.

He's shown me plenty of talent in his infant NFL career to make me believe he'll be fine.

I don't mind the runs between the tackle so much. At least he got the ball out of the backfield, which I believe is a must every game.

I would prefer, though, if Shotty got him the ball out of the backfield speeding towards the perimeter of the defense however. Tosses, stretches, jet sweeps, etc.

 

[Zaphod]

I didn't get a chance to catch much of the second half of the game, and I actually can't wait to watch it later when I do have a chance.

I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised to see them run Austin run between the tackles. A bit of fearlessness on the part of the coach and Tavon to use him in the backfield more. While I do realize that he has tremendous difficulty breaking tackles, if the big guys up front can create a hole for him, I think he can see success running up the middle in time.

But what I really like is when I saw him used on a flat route. Wow, teams have to be honest about covering him there if only because of the way he can catch on the run with that route. And I do remember thinking how I'd like to see that threat expanded a bit with a wheel route.

As others have said, if I criticize Shottenheimer for anything, it's trying to force feed him the ball too much.

That said, I just have to think that there are more creative ways to take what the defense is giving and create favorable match ups.

If you look closely at the blocking the Vikings afforded Patterson on the outside, you'd see why the deserved this win. And sure, he broke some tackles as well, but we absolutely missed some throughout the game.

We almost beat ourselves as badly as they beat us in some aspects of this game. I do feel like focusing on Tavon Austin is a bit much.

In fact, if I point to a turning point in the game, that interception absolutely killed us.

 

[johndoe200]

Viking fan here and i would like to make a few points.

CP is a better receiver than given credit for. He is certainly "raw" with some of his routes (not all of them though) but the preseason showcased his improvement in his WR development. He made 2 one handed grabs with the CB drapped over him, some nice "routine catches" and blew the top off the D on a go route. I think some of the evaluation by some posters about his WR abilities are wrong and uninformed.

The key ability with CP is his vision and ability to change directions at speed. From some very subtle to the extreme. He doesn't need the OC to "create space" for him bc he can hit seams and find creases within the defense. He does very subtle changes of direction that set up the D and even talks about this in an interview.

Before the drafting of CP, I came across a web site that was comparing him to TA and some other receivers. They used film to break down misses and broken tackles and drops, etc. CP had twice as many misses and broken tackles per 100 touches. Add to that, he was playing against the SEC.

If you watch his highlights from high school, to JC, to Tn, you will see the same thing. He is one of those rare players who can reverse the field.

I actually like TA, but I think CP is more dangerous bc you don't need to "create" space for him.

 

[ChrisW]

Tavon needs to be constantly use in motions so you can do things like this.... I just don't understand how Schotty can't come up with better plays for Tavon. Running the jet sweeps below should be like a once per quarter at least thing.

Make the LBs account for him in motion giving them something else to think about. This only helps out our running game as well.

 

[reggae]

my two cents worth on the Tavon Austin discussion......

The thing about Austin that has concerned me since he got here is his size, or serious lack thereof. He has plenty of straight line speed, and he has plenty of "change of direction" WHEN he is moving forward. But he doesn't have a lot of start and stop quickness, such as an Amendola did. Defenses know they cannot match up against him in straight man coverage, so they force him to catch the ball in windows, usually while standing still. Which completely negates his best asset. His SPEED. That isn't on Schottenheimer. That 's on Austin. And to think he would come in do what he did at WVU, against Big XII defenses, which were among the worst in the country, well, was false optimism IMO.

The best thing that can happen to make Austin a part of this offense is to establish Quick and Britt, along with Cook, and get the running game going. Tavon Austin just isn't the type of player who can be featured. He will always be an accessory piece that can exploit teams when they are forced to pay attention to other guys, creating a mismatch for Austin.

I have seem a lot of people comments regarding using Austin like Minnesota uses Patterson, i just don't think its a fair comparison. Patterson breaks tackles, and can run plays from scrimmage. As a receiver, what did Patterson do to set himself apart today? Not much from where I sat.

Austin, while people may like to think he can based on his days at WVU, its not gonna happen here. How many times has he had a crease, and has been ONE STEP from breaking a big play, only to be brought down by the one guy who grabs on to him and pulls him down? His lack of size makes it virtually impossible for him to be able to break a tackle.

Look at the punt returns TODAY. He was tentative, and indecisive. and virtually worthless back there. And that is when he actually held on the the ball.

Definitely not the allworld slot receiver he was billed as. He's a Joe Washington type RB.

 

[V3]

And yet Seattle finds a way to integrate Percy Harvin, a weapon very similar to Austin, into their offense. Just because we are a run first/run heavy offense doesn't mean we can't use Austin. Seattle has shown there is very much a place for such a player in that type of offense, our staff just hasn't figured it out yet.

I really don't think Austin is anywhere near as good as Harvin. I see Harvin break tackles and make people miss one-on-one. Austin definitely doesn't break tackles and isn't nearly as good at beating one-on-ones as people claim. There was at least one play I can recall from yesterday's game where Austin had one guy to beat and couldn't do it. He was just pushed out of bounds by LB Barr. The playcalling is going to have to be pretty damn good because Austin isn't the type of player that can make a decent play or mediocre play better.

 

[moonshyne]

so you are suggesting they change the entire offensive scheme to accommodate ONE player? If they go back to those WVU tapes and want to figure out what it would take to make him as comfortable as he was there, I think they will find they would need to recruit the Oklahoma defense (or most of the Big XII defenses for that matter) to play against.

You've been down on TA for awhile. Understandable. Let's talk in a few weeks. Way too much talent to be shut down like he was Saturday and most of last year. The frustration will explode like the Colts game last year very soon. Hopefully in Tampa .