So who ran the lazy route?

[maximus]

What did Tavon do that was lazy?

He ran to the outside, instead of running full steam ahead. He beat the CB inside, there was no reason to run to outside after that. Running to the outside meant he lost all the advantage he gained when he beat the CB inside, he hid behind the CB with that move.

In this picture you see clearly, the safety's main concern is Tavon. The safety positions his body almost parallel with a go route by Tavon, preparing himself to run vertically with Tavon. At this moment, if Tavon runs the go route( full steam ahead) the safety would have been forced to defend that. But Tavon runs to the outside, the safety sees that, turns his body to the inside and makes the int. Fisher is right.

 

[V3]

I agree with your other points, but I hated this play design using Kendricks.

I agree. I think it would have worked better using two of our fastest WRs, i.e, Tavon and Givens.

 

[-X-]

He ran to the outside, instead of running full steam ahead. He beat the CB inside, there was no reason to run to outside after that. Running to the outside meant he lost all the advantage he gained when he beat the CB inside, he hid behind the CB with that move.

In this picture you see clearly, the safety's main concern is Tavon. The safety positions his body almost parallel with a go route by Tavon, preparing himself to run vertically with Tavon. At this moment, if Tavon runs the go route( full steam ahead) the safety would have been forced to defend that. But Tavon runs to the outside, the safety sees that, turns his body to the inside and makes the int. Fisher is right.

That's kinda how i see it too. But without knowing what his route is on the play, we're left to speculate about how we think it should have gone down.

 

[V3]

He ran to the outside, instead of running full steam ahead. He beat the CB inside, there was no reason to run to outside after that. Running to the outside meant he lost all the advantage he gained when he beat the CB inside, he hid behind the CB with that move.

In this picture you see clearly, the safety's main concern is Tavon. The safety positions his body almost parallel with a go route by Tavon, preparing himself to run vertically with Tavon. At this moment, if Tavon runs the go route( full steam ahead) the safety would have been forced to defend that. But Tavon runs to the outside, the safety sees that, turns his body to the inside and makes the int. Fisher is right.

And this is why I still don't trust Tavon as a WR. He can be useful and a part time RB but he still doesn't get it at WR.

 

[maximus]

That's kinda how i see it too. But without knowing what his route is on the play, we're left to speculate about how we think it should have gone down.

It could not have been anything else than a go route, the same route as Kendricks. The design of the play is clearly to put the safety in a bind, to force him to defend 2 go routes run at him. You can see the safety preparing to defend the go route from Tavon. Since Tavon ran to the outside, the safety turned around to defend Kendricks go route, and got the INT.

 

[jrry32]

He ran to the outside, instead of running full steam ahead. He beat the CB inside, there was no reason to run to outside after that. Running to the outside meant he lost all the advantage he gained when he beat the CB inside, he hid behind the CB with that move.

In this picture you see clearly, the safety's main concern is Tavon. The safety positions his body almost parallel with a go route by Tavon, preparing himself to run vertically with Tavon. At this moment, if Tavon runs the go route( full steam ahead) the safety would have been forced to defend that. But Tavon runs to the outside, the safety sees that, turns his body to the inside and makes the int. Fisher is right.

I'm sorry but this is completely incorrect.

There's a single high safety in the middle. Austin beat his man inside. The correct way to run that route following beating a press CB inside is to stack the CB (move back towards your route stem and put the CB on your heels directly behind you) and then fade towards the sideline.

Personally, I think Austin might have faded a bit too much towards the sideline on the play but he's correct to fade towards the sideline. If Foles throws that way, he is going to be throwing over Austin's outside shoulder towards the sideline. Austin is supposed to fade towards the sideline because it creates space between him and the safety.

Now, as I said, I think he was fading too much which makes it a more difficult throw because it gives Foles less space on the sideline to squeeze it in.

But Austin didn't run a lazy route and he wasn't wrong to fade towards the sideline after beating the CB.

 

[jrry32]

It could not have been anything else than a go route, the same route as Kendricks. The design of the play is clearly to put the safety in a bind, to force him to defend 2 go routes run at him. You can see the safety preparing to defend the go route from Tavon. Since Tavon ran to the outside, the safety turned around to defend Kendricks go route, and got the INT.

If Tavon stays inside, that keeps the safety closer to Kendricks. Until he's forced to pick a player, he's going to split the difference and read the QB. Foles threw it too quickly so the safety was not forced to pick a player to defender. Stay inside only keeps the safety closer to the middle of the field.

 

[maximus]

I'm sorry but this is completely incorrect.

There's a single high safety in the middle. Austin beat his man inside. The correct way to run that route following beating a press CB inside is to stack the CB (move back towards your route stem and put the CB on your heels directly behind you) and then fade towards the sideline.

Wrong. Once he fades towards the sideline, it means there is no go route from him for the safety to defend, that means that immediately the safety turns towards to go route from Kendricks. That's exactly what happens, and that could not have been the design of the play. What you write is indeed completely incorrect.

 

[jrry32]

Wrong. Once he fades towards the sideline, it means there is no go route from him for the safety to defend, that means that immediately the safety turns towards to go route from Kendricks. That's exactly what happens, and that could not have been the design of the play. What you write is indeed completely incorrect.

What are you talking about? He's still running a 9 route when he's fading to the sideline. What he's also doing is forcing the safety away from the middle of the field.

The safety turned towards Kendricks because he was watching Foles the entire time.

But I want to repeat what you're claiming. You're claiming that by running Austin and Kendricks on the SAME route CLOSER to each other, it will make the safety's job harder than it would be if their routes were FURTHER APART.

 

[kurtfaulk]

He ran to the outside, instead of running full steam ahead. He beat the CB inside, there was no reason to run to outside after that. Running to the outside meant he lost all the advantage he gained when he beat the CB inside, he hid behind the CB with that move.

In this picture you see clearly, the safety's main concern is Tavon. The safety positions his body almost parallel with a go route by Tavon, preparing himself to run vertically with Tavon. At this moment, if Tavon runs the go route( full steam ahead) the safety would have been forced to defend that. But Tavon runs to the outside, the safety sees that, turns his body to the inside and makes the int. Fisher is right.

When i watch the video the safety doesn't move until the ball is out of the hand. He positioned himself to run towards tavon but didn't move until the pass was thrown. Can't blame tavon for the int.

.

 

[Rainram]

I agree. I think it would have worked better using two of our fastest WRs, i.e, Tavon and Givens.

Entirely different play. They'd switch to Nickel, or possibly a Dime package and you don't have the match of Kendricks on a LBer. Personnel wasn't the issue here. The route(s) and the throw were.

 

[maximus]

What are you talking about? He's still running a 9 route when he's fading to the sideline. What he's also doing is forcing the safety away from the middle of the field.

The safety turned towards Kendricks because he was watching Foles the entire time.

But I want to repeat what you're claiming. You're claiming that by running Austin and Kendricks on the SAME route CLOSER to each other, it will make the safety's job harder than it would be if their routes were FURTHER APART.

The safety turned towards Kendricks because there was no go route to defend from Tavon. Only a go route would force the safety to go towards Tavon. In the above picture, you can see the safety with his body turned to defend the go route from Tavon. Once he saw Tavon fade to the outside, he turned his attention to Kendricks and made the INT.

Had Tavon ran the go route, that would have forced the safety to go with him. No go route from Tavon meant no attention from the safety, the safety was free to turn all his attention to the go route from Kendricks and make the INT. That could not have been in any way the design of the play.

 

[V3]

Entirely different play. They'd switch to Nickel, or possibly a Dime package and you don't have the match of Kendricks on a LBer. Personnel wasn't the issue here. The route(s) and the throw were.

Not sure if Kendricks is much of a mismatch for a LB anyways. Also, how many DB's did they have on the field on that play? I can't tell.

 

[Rainram]

I'm with Jrry on all this.

The main problem...bad f-ing throw. Period.
The other problem, we didn't generate enough space from the safety (who, quite frankly, played it well). As I and others have stated, I think if Kendricks runs more of a post (even a more shallow post once the LBer gets turned)...easy pitch and catch. The DB on Britt isn't paying attention at all to the deep right. That was open all day.

The only other option was for TA to run a short dig/slant and Kendrick to run a EASY 20 yard Corner route.

Foles did what he could...got the safety to take a good 8-10 steps toward Tavon. It's just that Tavon and Kendricks were so close together. Foles pushed it, and took a chance...and lost. I got no problem with it necessarily. There are a dozen other plays I have problems with though....lol.

 

[jrry32]

The safety turned towards Kendricks because there was no go route to defend from Tavon. Only a go route would force the safety to go towards Tavon. In the above picture, you can see the safety with his body turned to defend the go route from Tavon. Once he saw Tavon fade to the outside, he turned his attention to Kendricks and made the INT.

You've said this already. The analysis is still incorrect. The safety turned towards the ball, not Kendricks. He was playing FOLES the entire time. He positioned himself between Kendricks and Austin because that's what you do as a single high safety playing two 9 routes. He did something called splitting the difference. He played between both receivers until he was forced to commit. He never was because Foles threw before he had to. He turned his body towards Austin because Austin is a far greater threat on a deep ball than a TE.

If Austin isn't running a 9 route, what route is he running?

Had Tavon ran the go route, that would have forced the safety to go with him. No go route from Tavon meant no attention from the safety, the safety was free to turn all his attention to the go route from Kendricks and make the INT. That could not have been in any way the design of the play.

Tavon was still running a 9 route. The safety was not forced to go with either Kendricks or Austin because Foles threw the ball too early.

I'm surprised nobody told Patrick Chung that he doesn't have to play Manningham once he fades to the sidelines here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz3pO7-JtTs

 

[Rainram]

Not sure if Kendricks is much of a mismatch for a LB anyways. Also, how many DB's did they have on the field on that play? I can't tell.

Kendricks has been winning those matchups a lot. He may not burn Bobby Wagner or KJ Wright. But a slower LBer...I'll take that all day.

I think they had 3 DBs out there (maybe 4, if that's a CB and S double teaming Britt). But if you sub Givens for Kendricks. They AT LEAST swap out one DB for a LBer. And quite possibly they go with a heavy DIME package of sorts since you pretty much told them it's a pass play. I mean we hadn't run it all day, and you swap out one of our better blocking TEs for a WR...they take away the pass all day.

 

[maximus]

If Austin isn't running a 9 route, what route is he running?

He is not running any route, that is the point. Once he beats the CB inside, he should have stayed inside. All he did with that move was hide behind the CB. He should have ran a go route once he beat the CB inside, that would had forced the safety to go with him.

Tavon was still running a 9 route. The safety was not forced to go with either Kendricks or Austin because Foles threw the ball too early.

The safety was not forced to go with Kendricks or Austin because Tavon did not ran a go route, so there was nothing to chose from. If Foles throws the ball later, the safety would had been forced to go with Tavon? It's a complete absurdity what you are trying to claim.

I'm surprised nobody told Patrick Chung that he doesn't have to play Manningham once he fades to the sidelines here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz3pO7-JtTs

You are not serious, are you? Manningham beats the CB outside, and he stays outside, he doesn't drift inside. That is a route. Manningham did not beat the CB inside, and then faded outside.

 

[jrry32]

He is not running any route, that is the point. Once he beats the CB inside, he should have stayed inside. All he did with that move was hide behind the CB. He should have ran a go route once he beat the CB inside, that would had forced the safety to go with him.



The safety was not forced to go with Kendricks or Austin because Tavon did not ran a go route, so there was nothing to chose from. If Foles throws the ball later, the safety would had been forced to go with Tavon? It's a complete absurdity what you are trying to claim.



You are not serious, are you? Manningham beats the CB outside, and he stays outside, he doesn't drift inside. That is a route. Manningham did not beat the CB inside, and then faded outside.

Austin didn't run a route? What did he do? Sit down and have a picnic?

I'm almost done here. But I'll give you one more example:

View: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81a78b55/Mark-Clayton-39-yard-catch


Watch Mark Clayton run a 9 route. The CB is playing off so he stems his route off the LOS towards his inside hip to leverage the CB inside (to create more space between the CB and the sideline and try to catch the CB flat-footed because he's selling the route as if he's going to break inside). Once he gets even with the CB, he starts fading to the sideline to give Bradford more space to drop the ball in over his outside shoulder away from the safety.

That is the same thing Austin did except Austin was facing press coverage. In that case, you get your release off the LOS, if you beat the CB badly enough then you stack him (put him on your heels), and then you fade gradually towards the sideline away from the safety. If there is no safety, you don't need to fade.

Austin ran a 9 route there. I think he faded a bit too much (gives the QB less space if you fade too much) but his route was not lazy. And it was a route.

As I told you before, the safety didn't have to choose which player to cover because Foles threw it before the play developed to that point. If Foles had let both players get close to even with the safety, he's forced to pick one if both are behind their defenders (because if he doesn't, it leaves both open).

That's it. I've said my piece.

 

[DR RAM]

Tavon just wanted a clean release, that's why he made that early move to the inside. Nothing wrong with that, and something he needed to work on this season. If he gets a clean release, who can cover him? It was a 9 route, pretty clear one, up until the ball was released.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

I haven't watched the all-22 but it looks to me that Tavon stops running his route the second Foles starts to throw the ball.

Either way it isn't a good throw. Kendricks was nowhere near getting a hand on that ball. Does Tavon running a full-blast go route really change the fact that the ball was overthrown and an easy pick?