So who ran the lazy route?

[RamzFanz]

I agree, Kendricks never should have got that look. Especially after a huge drop earlier when the only thing contesting him was some fumes left over from the fire. I don't put the ball into his hands late at all, but I'm guessing they were trying to get away from Britt since at that point the Steelers were probably quadruple covering him.

I'm beginning to think there's more to the offense than just bad OCs, I don't know. I can believe that maybe one couldn't figure out how to involve Bailey or TA, but two in a row? One of whom just got here? I don't know, that seems hard to swallow. We also know Fisher's got an ego and likes to have his hand in things he probably shouldn't.

I'm beginning to wonder if Fisher's doing things to keep the offense running 'his' way regardless of what is necessary. I mean I just can't believe that two radically different OCs are doing things the exact same way, especially after watching Schott get obliterated for years over it.

I'm to the point that I turn off the TV and radio if Fisher is talking. Why listen to lies and lame excuses in a monotone arrogant voice?

Interviewer: You have an 8.2 YPC career runner in a game where the Rams can't get a rushing yard to save their lives and you don't hand him the ball once. Why is that coach?

Fisher: [arrogant know it all chuckle and smirk] Yeah, you mean Tavon, yeah, he's good and we need to get him involved more. There's only so many balls to go around though. We're working on that. We'll fix that.

Interviewer: Didn't you say that exact same thing every game but a few over the last 3 years?

Fisher: [arrogant know it all chuckle and smirk] Yeah, well, we have a game plan each and every week carefully designed for that actual opponent and, you know, if you, you have to work that plan. There's only so many balls to go around though. We're working on that. We'll fix that.

Interviewer: Is Quick OK? Is he ready to start?

Fisher: [look of disgust for asking this question] Yeah, well, Quicky is 100% and has been for some time, but there are only so many balls to go around, and, uh, you need a backup long snapper in case one goes down and, uh, you know there's needs we have as a team and only so many spots to go around.

 

[Rainram]

I would like to hear what Foles has to say. The safety did fade TA's way so maybe Foles just got fooled and thought the safety had committed to the outside?

I'd really like to know what Foles was seeing and thinking too. Unfortunately we'll never know.

Really though...WTF is that being Kendricks?!? Why is he going deep when we had the completion and first down to him underneath?

See my post above on other routes out of that same formation which would have had good success (especially with the safety that deep) Also, my comment about the TE having a read (I'm curious about that).

I remember having this discussion with Shane Gray after the trade. We both agreed, Foles WILL make those throws all season, and that's just fine. The reason that didn't worry us is because the target was supposed to be Britt or Quick who make that catch 9 times out of 10.

The problems here...Quick ain't playing. Britt was double covered. And it's quickly getting to the point, if it's not there already, that when Cook is in there, you're limited because they know you're passing. We can line up in that formation with Kendricks and they have to respect the run to that side (so maybe the LBer cheats in a step or two), so when Kendricks goes out in a pattern, he can beat his man. And he's done so pretty well in this offense...that terrible, awful, killer of a drop has clouded the success we have in this area.

But we just can't do that with Cook.

We need Quick back.

I don't want to Kendricks bash, but is he really that guy? Zero targets for Bailey, zero runs for TA, and Kendricks deep with TA and Britt out there?!? I always thought Schotty over thought and tried too hard to be unpredictable. Is Ciggi a chop off the same block?

I have no idea why Bailey isn't getting targets. Especially with Quick out. Bottom line is this offense has a bit of an identity problem. We are built to be a run first team, and PA off that. You want TA out there as much as possible. Britt (and Quick if he ever decides to join us) give us big size mismatches. Gotta roll out a TE or two to make our system work (too bad Cook is one dimensional). You run out of ways to really include Stedman nearly as often.

 

[Rainram]

Wanted to add to the last part of my last post....

The fact that this offense works off the run, is a huge reason for its failure thus far. We should be running for 120-150 per game. Our passing game stems from that. We are not a passing team. Our design is not to put up 350 yards of passing a game.

That run game really needs to get going. We all would love to throw 30+ points per game on the board (a la GB and NE)...ain't gonna happen. We're designed to run the ball, wear down defenses, control the clock and the game with our offense, while our Defense holds teams to under 10-17 points per game. Half of that equation ain't working.

We gotta run the ball!

 

[Fatbot]

It looks to me that Tavon doesn't stop his route until Foles throws, so I think this one is on Foles. On the left side this is two WRs against 2 guys covering them plus a safety that's aligned 20 yards deep. It's not bad play design, it's just how the matchup came out -- Pitt was taking away the deep ball here. The safety also does a nice job giving enough ground so he can make a downhill play. This matchup favors the defense, there's only two ways they are going to lose. One is Foles must look off the safety -- which it seems like he tries -- but to the extent the safety totally commits to Tavon. Two is Foles must make an NFL pro QB pass, a perfect strike over the trailing LB yet with enough juice that the safety can't get there in time.

 

[RamzFanz]

The problems here...Quick ain't playing. Britt was double covered. And it's quickly getting to the point, if it's not there already, that when Cook is in there, you're limited because they know you're passing. We can line up in that formation with Kendricks and they have to respect the run to that side (so maybe the LBer cheats in a step or two), so when Kendricks goes out in a pattern, he can beat his man. And he's done so pretty well in this offense...that terrible, awful, killer of a drop has clouded the success we have in this area.

But we just can't do that with Cook.

We need Quick back.

All good points. You've changed my mind. I just would have cut that route short, too dangerous without Quick or Britt or even Cook.

I have no idea why Bailey isn't getting targets. Especially with Quick out. Bottom line is this offense has a bit of an identity problem. We are built to be a run first team, and PA off that. You want TA out there as much as possible. Britt (and Quick if he ever decides to join us) give us big size mismatches. Gotta roll out a TE or two to make our system work (too bad Cook is one dimensional). You run out of ways to really include Stedman nearly as often.

I think this is the spread offense nightmare revisited. Too soon for a run first team. This should be a pass first team until the run game develops naturally. We have all the tools for an air game.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

When guys screw off enough times the coach just needs to get them off the team........and stop making the same mistake by going after athleticism before character/brains players. Would JJ Watt half ass a play? Would Rey Lewis half ass a play? Marshall Faulk? Torry Holt? Ike? Why does Fisher love these types so much? I see they finally got rid of Pead after how long? Pead who couldn't get his act together and fumbled nearly every chance he had. Why? Fisher needs to send a message when guys are not doing their part. How many times did JJ blow games because he wouldn't stick with the system? This is frustrating. And why can't Fisher recognize what a talented WR is? Sure he has dumped picks into the position but what does he have to show for it? Quick. That's about it. I know fans love Stedman but where is he each week? The WR/TE group needs an overhaul IMO. Maybe the next draft will be like the last only with pass catchers instead of OL.

 

[shaunpinney]

I loved the play, we needed a big play and the guys had one in the bag. But...

The throw: a floater AND it was over-thrown
The passer: should really have seen the safety back there just waiting for it
The targets: I think Britt slips, and TA doesn't look as sharp as he should

O-line: guys looked ok on that play always silver lining guys

 

[shaunpinney]

When guys screw off enough times the coach just needs to get them off the team........and stop making the same mistake by going after athleticism before character/brains players. Would JJ Watt half ass a play? Would Rey Lewis half ass a play? Marshall Faulk? Torry Holt? Ike? Why does Fisher love these types so much? I see they finally got rid of Pead after how long? Pead who couldn't get his act together and fumbled nearly every chance he had. Why? Fisher needs to send a message when guys are not doing their part. How many times did JJ blow games because he wouldn't stick with the system? This is frustrating. And why can't Fisher recognize what a talented WR is? Sure he has dumped picks into the position but what does he have to show for it? Quick. That's about it. I know fans love Stedman but where is he each week? The WR/TE group needs an overhaul IMO. Maybe the next draft will be like the last only with pass catchers instead of OL.

I'm not sure its all down to the players, coaches need to light the fire in their bellies and thats just not there at the moment...

 

[jrry32]

http://a.video.nfl.com/films/2015/N..._pit_will_allen_interception_303616_1200k.mp4


Here's the play for reference.

Looks to me like Tavon is the culprit at the top of the screen. Looks like he's trying to work a go route but gives up on it about 10-15 yards down the field. The safety is then moving towards the center of the field.

Tavon's route looks fine. He beat his man off the LOS, he stacked him and then stemmed his route towards the sideline to give Foles an easier throw. He didn't start to slow down until Foles threw it over the middle.

Fisher is blowing smoke.

In yesterday's press conference Fish alluded to the team running that play with the INT better. When pressed he didn't give up the name of who failed to draw the safety, so was hoping someone caught who it was...

He's blowing smoke. The safety is playing the deep middle. Unless Foles does something to draw him to the sideline like eyeing/pump faking to Austin, he's going to sit in the middle of the field and read the QB.

 

[jrry32]

Yea, I think that was the play design. Have Tavon draw the safety, and hit Kendricks down the middle.

Which doesn't make sense when they're using a single high safety. If they're running Cover 2, it makes perfect sense. Tavon draws the safety outside which opens the seam up. This was Cover 1. The safety isn't playing Tavon. He's playing the QB. He's not going to be drawn to the sideline unless Foles sells the throw. Foles did nothing of the sort. Foles misread the coverage imo.

 

[shaunpinney]

The thing is, had that ball been caught, even in coverage, Kendricks was heading to the Pitt 45yard line, we could have taken that drive to the endzone, if lady luck was shining. My biggest problem is we shouldn't have been in that situation anyway, we need to score TDs EARLIER in the game and NOT rely on the closing minutes of the game

 

[kurtfaulk]

It looks to me that Tavon doesn't stop his route until Foles throws, so I think this one is on Foles. On the left side this is two WRs against 2 guys covering them plus a safety that's aligned 20 yards deep. It's not bad play design, it's just how the matchup came out -- Pitt was taking away the deep ball here. The safety also does a nice job giving enough ground so he can make a downhill play. This matchup favors the defense, there's only two ways they are going to lose. One is Foles must look off the safety -- which it seems like he tries -- but to the extent the safety totally commits to Tavon. Two is Foles must make an NFL pro QB pass, a perfect strike over the trailing LB yet with enough juice that the safety can't get there in time.

i agree 100%. tavon had his man beat. the safety didn't move either way until he saw the pass. tavon saw as well and stopped running. the ball floated for so long it was begging to be intercepted.

.

 

[shaunpinney]

Which doesn't make sense when they're using a single high safety. If they're running Cover 2, it makes perfect sense. Tavon draws the safety outside which opens the seam up. This was Cover 1. The safety isn't playing Tavon. He's playing the QB. He's not going to be drawn to the sideline unless Foles sells the throw. Foles did nothing of the sort. Foles misread the coverage imo.

Agree with you there the safety is playing Foles, and Foles should have been able to see that. My worry is that Foles must have some serious amounts of pressure on him to make this offense work, its been said for years, "with a decent QB this team is a playoff contender" Foles wanted to end this game like the Seattle one, we don't need to be in that position of lofting long balls to win the game, we need our running game to finally turn up - I expect week 8 will be our firs 100+yard game, and tbh, its going to be too late by then - for a run 1st team, we really suck at running the ball...

 

[jrry32]

It looks to me that Tavon doesn't stop his route until Foles throws, so I think this one is on Foles. On the left side this is two WRs against 2 guys covering them plus a safety that's aligned 20 yards deep. It's not bad play design, it's just how the matchup came out -- Pitt was taking away the deep ball here. The safety also does a nice job giving enough ground so he can make a downhill play. This matchup favors the defense, there's only two ways they are going to lose. One is Foles must look off the safety -- which it seems like he tries -- but to the extent the safety totally commits to Tavon. Two is Foles must make an NFL pro QB pass, a perfect strike over the trailing LB yet with enough juice that the safety can't get there in time.

The thing is that it was still a winnable play. I can't tell where the safety is so All 22 would be nice but Tavon can fade to the sideline. Kendricks can fade to the right side of the field. Either player can make the play if Foles places the ball properly because he can throw it away from the safety. It's a tough throw but one he should be able to make. But he put the ball right in the safety's wheelhouse. There's nobody else back there. If you want to go to Kendricks, throw the ball more towards the right hashmark and let him run to the open space. Yes, it forces him to adjust but it also keeps the safety from being able to get there. But he lofted it up right to the safety.

I don't see how Fisher can blame other players for this mistake. And frankly, there was an easy throw to be made on this play. Look at the bottom of the screen. Throw the ball to Britt (or whoever that WR is) on the sideline route. The CB is too deep to make a play and the LB dropping out of the blitz isn't going to be able to undercut it if you put air under it.

 

[HometownBoy]

The thing is that it was still a winnable play. I can't tell where the safety is so All 22 would be nice but Tavon can fade to the sideline. Kendricks can fade to the right side of the field. Either player can make the play if Foles places the ball properly because he can throw it away from the safety. It's a tough throw but one he should be able to make. But he put the ball right in the safety's wheelhouse. There's nobody else back there. If you want to go to Kendricks, throw the ball more towards the right hashmark and let him run to the open space. Yes, it forces him to adjust but it also keeps the safety from being able to get there. But he lofted it up right to the safety.

I don't see how Fisher can blame other players for this mistake. And frankly, there was an easy throw to be made on this play. Look at the bottom of the screen. Throw the ball to Britt (or whoever that WR is) on the sideline route. The CB is too deep to make a play and the LB dropping out of the blitz isn't going to be able to undercut it if you put air under it.

I agree, sure Austin could have ran harder and maybe have drawn the safety, but that's not a given and the fact of the matter is it didn't and it's Foles' job to recognize that, especially since it's not a given that their safety is going to fall for our design anyways.

Foles HAS to be better at going through his progressions instead of throwing at first read regardless of where the D is at.

 

[-X-]

The thing is that it was still a winnable play. I can't tell where the safety is so All 22 would be nice

Second half of this video gives a pretty good look.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMTtl_7aTR0

 

[Orchid]

The play itself. Good design (just a bad throw!). Come out in a run formation, defense brings 8 in the box. You know that you'll have Kendricks on a LBer...who he beats by the way. The play design created a mismatch, and at least on that level we won. The safety didn't clear, and Nick read it wrong. But if the safety bites more on TA that's a huge gainer (although he probably overthrows Kendricks anyway).

No way they were in a heavy formation (8 in the box), they were in a 2 deep safety before the snap.

 

[Orchid]

The play itself. Good design (just a bad throw!). Come out in a run formation, defense brings 8 in the box. You know that you'll have Kendricks on a LBer...who he beats by the way. The play design created a mismatch, and at least on that level we won. The safety didn't clear, and Nick read it wrong. But if the safety bites more on TA that's a huge gainer (although he probably overthrows Kendricks anyway).

No way they were in a heavy formation (8 in the box), they were in a 2 deep safety before the snap.

 

[ChrisW]

Which doesn't make sense when they're using a single high safety. If they're running Cover 2, it makes perfect sense. Tavon draws the safety outside which opens the seam up. This was Cover 1. The safety isn't playing Tavon. He's playing the QB. He's not going to be drawn to the sideline unless Foles sells the throw. Foles did nothing of the sort. Foles misread the coverage imo.

Second half of this video gives a pretty good look.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMTtl_7aTR0

@jrry32 , You are correct. The safety made a good play. Bad decision by Foles.

 

[jrry32]

Second half of this video gives a pretty good look.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMTtl_7aTR0

Okay, yeah, I don't think there was a throw to be made to Kendricks seeing that. Austin, he might have been able to squeeze it in if he threw to the sideline and let Austin fade to the sideline.

Either ways, Austin's route had nothing to do with what happened on that play. You can see the safety starting to break on the ball because he's reading Foles before Austin gives up on the route.

 

[-X-]

@jrry32 , You are correct. The safety made a good play. Bad decision by Foles.

We can only know that if we know the route Tavon is supposed to run. If he's supposed to cut it over to the sidelines, then it's a bad play design and he rounds that route off bad. You'd think, with a single high safety, that Tavon should have taken it straight up field while Kendricks is running *his* route. That splits the safety's decision and he has to commit to one or the other. Chances are, once Tavon blew by his defender, that the safety would be more interested in helping out on that side. Not a ton of time to let that play develop either, so... who the hell knows.