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Once-in-a-lifetime prospect? Scouts break down Clowney

Discussion in 'RAMS - NFL TALK' started by Ramifications, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. jjab360

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    Then I have failed as a ROD poster.:(

    Fret not, though, I will redeem myself in the future.
     
  2. Thordaddy

    Binding you with ancient logic
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    That BTW is a thumb not a salute,IYKWIM
     
  3. Ramifications

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    No that would be superficial and stupid for you to infer that is what I meant, when I have never said we should take players because of what the scouts said about how rare the prospect is, without also seeing if it conforms to your own scouting.

    What do think I meant about not seeing Mandarich and being at a disadvantage. That was stupid of you to not infer what that meant. I've seen Johnso, Luck and Clowney, i.e. - I've scouted them.

    Why do you think I posted 2012 clips and made comments about what I thought about the prospects, in relation to what the scouts are saying (the operative phrase there is what I thought).

    Look, if you want to have a mature, adult, rational conversation about this without name calling, we can, but this isn't it.

    I have yet to see you articulate coherently, or lucidly or intelligibly what you would do, in general (not this specific prospect), and if Mandarich busts means you dispense with ALL scouting reports, great, average and bad alike. That would be monkey and a dart board time. I guess you can do your own scouting, but not realistic for most to valuate hundreds of players.
     
  4. LosAngelesRams

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    you said....

    Were Calvin Johnson and Andrew Luck hype?
    They were called generational PROSPECTS.
    Do you think their teams regret the picks?


    The same thing was said about Tony Mandarich, which was completely wrong, WHICH IS WHY I BROUGHT IT UP.... to prove to you the scouts are not always right. but "you didn't scout him" so it doesn't count right to you.

    You sure acted like it was a guarantee with the way you worded your posts.

    Did I say that about the reports? I simply showed you that scouts are not always right and don't act like that's the only one they missed on. take it however you want.

    like I said your picking 2 people to talk about and use as an example when I'm sure we can name plenty of people that DIDNT live up to the expectations picked high. What you are doing is the same crap reporters do, selective journalism to fit there agenda. what kind of response did you expect from anyone about if DET or IND was regretting picking Megatron or Luck? that's just silly to think anyone would say they do. Did DET have multiple quality WR's when they picked Calvin, Did IND have a solid back up behind a aging/injured at the time Peyton like we have solid backups in DE's?
     
  5. LosAngelesRams

    Guravonldtree
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    here's a perfect response to you.

    MY DICK.

    I can see why tony is upset, you don't listen to crap anyone says and just keep running your mouth. which is why he needs to rehash himself over and over.
     
  6. Ramifications

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    Good points.

    Maybe I could explain with a different position.

    Why would ATL blow up their draft to add Julio Jones when they already had Roddy White (I think leads all WRs in receptions since 2007?).

    1) He was a rare prospect, with A.J. Green the best since Calvin Johnson (people were saying this BEFORE the draft).

    2) You can start more than one.

    3) They thought he could be a difference maker, the kind of player that could tilt the field in their direction, and would help more than the sum of the lesser picks they gave up.

    4) Having TWO Pro Bowlers (really three with Tony Gonzalez) might put their passing attack in a tipping point kind of position, where Jones would add more than just the obvious additive value of his own presence (like say if you added him without already having White), because than they are in a position to overload and overwhelm secondaries in a way they couldn't previously.

    5) Why did MIN add Randy Moss to Cris Carter? Was that a bad move for them? Why add Reggie Wayne to Marvin Harrison? I don't remember how old Carter and Harrison were at these times, but I think they played a few more years after, and anyways, would MIN not have drafted Moss if Carter had been 25? Possibly, but I'm not sure about that, it isn't IMO obviously the case.
     
  7. Ramifications

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    And getting a player that was better than Calvin Johnson or Andrew Luck later was also possible, they were "hyped" to. It just wasn't likely, IMO, based on watching them.
     
  8. Thordaddy

    Binding you with ancient logic
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    Slow your roll man
     
  9. Ramifications

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    I didn't mention the other person, you did, I said I wouldn't, so am at a disadvantage.

    I'm running my mouth, says the hissy fit guy who's response is my dick. Are you 12?

    I've listened to and acknowledged several people in the thread, selective on your part to not notice.

    Calling me stupid FIRST when I didn't start the juvenile, classless name calling had a predictable result.

    You keep obfuscating and deflecting and refusing to answer the obvious corollary question to the observation, Mandarich busted. Do you dispense with all scouts and information about some prospects being historically good, even if they accord with your own judgement.

    How can you be repeating yourself when you are evading this point, you seem confused.
     
  10. LosAngelesRams

    Guravonldtree
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    Yea I know, I shouldn't have but I don't like the way hes been attacking tony in this thread and I'm not dealing with his crap. Mybad.
     
  11. BonifayRam

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    #231 BonifayRam, Feb 6, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2014
    See my response above in BOLD.
     
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  12. Zaphod

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    Absolutely Clowney is a great prospect. Is he worth a second overall? That's tough to say, which is why I would defer to the Rams scouts doing their homework regarding himself, Bridgewater or anyone else they deem worth the second overall.

    Now this is crazy hypothetical situation, but allow me to throw it out there for fun. Suppose the Texans draft Clowney and the Rams can't find a good trade down. Do you take Bridgewater? At least with a DE you can rotate him, but at QB, he's riding the bench until an injury or trade.
     
  13. PhxRam

    The Estimated Prophet
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    Well someone got a timeout. Not sure why you thought that would fly.
     
  14. Ramifications

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    #234 Ramifications, Feb 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2014
    I'd take the LT or WR.

    That strategy worked with GB (getting Rodgers when they had Favre - of course it would be more justified in our case since Bradford is about as far from Favre as you could possibly get as far as a sure thing), but I think they were a better team at the time, and they didn't use a 1.2 pick.

    I think it is a move the team would make if either we thought Bradford wasn't the long term answer, or were heavily concerned he might not be, not if we intend to go forward with him. It would be injury insurance, but awfully expensive, when we could use the pick on Robinson, Watkins or Clowney, for instance, who would not need a possible injury to contribute.

    I can't think of a recent example where a team was behind their franchise QB, and drafted another with so high a pick. SD took Rivers, but my recollection is that they clearly had moved on from Brees.
     
  15. Ramifications

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    My apologies to Tony if he thought I was badgering him.

    I tried to explain that there were so many posts that I was responding to as I went along, and may not have seen the later drop it request at the time I was responding to earlier posts, so it may have been a miscommunication. Maybe it could have later been avoided going off the rails further if I had stopped until I first did a better job making sure as best I could this point was understood, which I failed to do, I take responsibility for that.

    There are other things I could say, but they would be antithetical to a straightforward apology, I'll leave it at that.
     
  16. Ramifications

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    #236 Ramifications, Feb 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2014
    I was starting to compose a lengthy response, but noticed you said you won't be responding, so I don't really have an interest in adressing a pre-aborted/terminated dialogue. But thanks for your input.
     
  17. MerlinJones

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    I get the point you're making, and it's a valid one.

    I would ask you (because I honestly don't know) who was playing opposite Roddy White before Julio Jones?
    Who was opposite Cris Carter and Marvin Harrison before Moss and Wayne respectively.

    In those instances it seems like those teams had one excellent receiver and just some guy for the other.
    There was a need for that "home run hitter" receiver to stretch the defense. I know that Atlanta felt they were one player away from the Super Bowl, so they were comfortable going all in on Jones.

    I don't know what your opinion of Chris Long is. I definitely wouldn't call him elite, but I think he's a very good DE and a good compliment to Quinn.

    What it all really comes down to is that I don't believe the hype on Clowney.
    No one questions his physical attributes, but his work ethic and drive are definitely in question.

    I don't think anyone really expects the Rams to keep the second pick, but if for some reason they do I'd just rather see them go Robinson/Matthews/Watkins at that spot.
     
  18. jrry32

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    Because you have two DEs on the field at all times. And I want the two best DEs in the NFL if I can get them. Would only make our team stronger. There are ~20-30(or something like that) elite players in the NFL. That means not every team has one. Most teams don't have more than one. That should tell you how rare those type of players are. If you have a shot at one, you need to take it.

    Here would be my list of elite players in the NFL(currently):
    QB Peyton Manning
    QB Aaron Rodgers
    QB Tom Brady
    QB Drew Brees
    HB Adrian Peterson
    HB Jamaal Charles
    WR Calvin Johnson
    TE Rob Gronkowski
    TE Jimmy Graham
    LT Joe Thomas
    DE Robert Quinn
    DE JJ Watt
    DT Geno Atkins
    DT Gerald McCoy
    OLB Aldon Smith
    OLB Von Miller
    OLB Lavonte David
    ILB Patrick Willis
    CB Darrelle Revis
    CB Richard Sherman
    FS Earl Thomas

    That's it. 21 players. Maybe I forgot a player or there are 10-15 other players that are arguable. But it's a short list. Clowney has the ability to be one of those type of players. That's rare. And that's what makes him worth picking.
     
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  19. PhxRam

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    A lot of guys come in with the ability, few live up to it.
     
  20. jrry32

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    I wouldn't go quite as far as a lot. But there's nothing you can do about that. Only can trust your coaches. And I don't know about you but I trust Waufle, Williams and Fisher to get the most out of Clowney. Look at what Quinn and Brockers have become with Waufle.