I have a different take on our defense.

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Merlin

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I see Brockers returning to the NT post for his final season under contract here in LA. MB will earn $11 million again next season. MB might put back on some muscle & lbs. for next season. At this point in time Sebastian Joseph-Day will back up the NT post. Rams will be forced to use one of their top 4 picks on a NT.

Maybe so. Depends on how well he plays down the stretch and into the playoffs. Right now he's in that average range moreso than a plus player we expected, and is well paid, so if the Rams need to clear money he is a very attractive cut option ($10M gain) this offseason. DL is deep in this draft but we don't have a lot of picks and will definitely need to replace Suh, so lot of other considerations there too that might make keeping him around a good option.

I do expect the Rams to offer to extend/restructure with a much lower cap hit so he can stick around, as he is a solid player. But will he sign on for that who knows.
 

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Maybe so. Depends on how well he plays down the stretch and into the playoffs. Right now he's in that average range moreso than a plus player we expected, and is well paid, so if the Rams need to clear money he is a very attractive cut option ($10M gain) this offseason. DL is deep in this draft but we don't have a lot of picks and will definitely need to replace Suh, so lot of other considerations there too that might make keeping him around a good option.

I do expect the Rams to offer to extend/restructure with a much lower cap hit so he can stick around, as he is a solid player. But will he sign on for that who knows.
The extend/restructure would be a very good thing if MB's game performance upticks some. I still believe he is better than average, not worth the $11 mil. though. The NT positon must be manned by someone if not MB who? Rookie 6th rd pick Joseph-Day?

If the Ram let DL'ers Westbrooks & Suh depart by way of free agency/UFA that leaves only 1 NT on the roster & he has not seen the field yet this season. Draft does have a good amount of NT's in it. We need a good one real bad.
 

Rams43

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I am about done with Suh. Hate to say that ‘Cause I had had such high hopes for him playing with AD and Brockers (another disappointment, btw).

But the fire, the passion is gone from Suh. Really, he’s been a JAG, hasn’t he? A $14 million JAG, at that.

Hell, this D is loaded with disappointments this year.

Barron
Longacre
Ebu (until the Chiefs game)
Suh
Brockers
Peters
Shields
Hill
Joyner

There’s gonna be a helluva lot of new faces starting on D next season, trust me. Only question seems to be just how many. My guess is that there will be a minimum of 4 new starters on D next year.

Could be as high as 5-6 depending on whether Fowler or Ebu stick.
 

Merlin

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The extend/restructure would be a very good thing if MB's game performance upticks some. I still believe he is better than average, not worth the $11 mil. though. The NT positon must be manned by someone if not MB who? Rookie 6th rd pick Joseph-Day?

If the Ram let DL'ers Westbrooks & Suh depart by way of free agency/UFA that leaves only 1 NT on the roster & he has not seen the field yet this season. Draft does have a good amount of NT's in it. We need a good one real bad.

Just checked sportrac for the positional payroll averages, and DT comes in at $2.5M so yeah there's a lot of room for the Rams to save some cap room on his salary with a shrewd extension that brings them out of the $10.5M range. Of course that number is low for veteran FAs since it includes first contract types which push the average down, so we're probably looking at something in, idk, the $6-8M range maybe as a fair rate for Brock.

With Suh and his $14M cap hit departing in FA, and cut or extension of Brock, Rams will have the ability to sign a NT since they'll probably be clearing ~$20M. But tbh I think they draft NT because this draft is absolutely loaded on the DL. There is quality and quantity, and tbh if enough juniors declare there will be an increased chance DL is the top rated position late round 1 when we pick. But even if not there will be room for them to address NT.
 

Merlin

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My guess is that there will be a minimum of 4 new starters on D next year.

New starters with absolute certainty...
NT: High cap hit and poor production means Suh will leave in FA.
ILB: High cap hit and poor production means Barron will finally be cut.
FS: High cap hit and poor production means Joyner will leave in FA.

New starters likely, pending big production down stretch and in playoffs...
OLB: Fowler high chance of departing in FA as some team will make asinine offer, Rams might try to extend him.
5T: Brock will almost surely be cut if he doesn't sign extension that is cap friendly.
CB2: Peters should play his best next year (contract year) but do they bank on that?

So yeah I think 4 is a realistic expectation as a minimum.
 

Merlin

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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...eason-get-ready-wild-defensive-spending-spree

HOUSTON -- A funny thing happened here Sunday night. Two NFL teams -- the Cowboys and the Texans -- played a game and neither one of them scored 20 points. Not even with the help of an overtime period. Yes, even in the high-flying NFL of 2018, you still can find some pockets of defense being played here and there.

Now, what, you're going to come at me with a list of bad coaching decisions and the fact that the Cowboys don't have any reliable receivers, and you're right about all of that. But plays were being made on defense in this game. Houston bottled up Ezekiel Elliott. Dallas hit Deshaun Watson over and over again. You're still allowed to make plays that stop the other team, even as the rules make it harder and harder.

But the real reasons Dallas-Houston was an important game to watch from a defensive perspective were a couple of star pass-rushers in each team's front seven. The Cowboys' DeMarcus Lawrence and the Texans' Jadeveon Clowney are both in contract years and project to be among the jewels of a 2019 free-agent class that's going to be all about defense.

Remember how we just finished with the year of the free-agent quarterback? Next year looks like the year of the defensive player. Lawrence will be coming off a franchise-player season in which the Cowboys paid him $17.143 million. Clowney is making $12.306 million in the fifth-year-option season of his rookie contract. Assuming health and continued productivity, these two guys are set to cash in on a market that went through the roof about six weeks ago when Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack signed their record-setting deals.

They aren't alone. Next spring's free-agent pass-rusher market could include Detroit's Ezekiel Ansah (like Lawrence, a franchise player who can't negotiate a new deal until after the season), Philadelphia's Brandon Graham, Seattle's Frank Clark, New England's Trey Flowers and Kansas City's Dee Ford, to name a few. Jacksonville's Yannick Ngakoue is signed through 2019 but could be in line next offseason for a contract extension that helps set the floor for some of those other deals.

And it's not just the pass-rushers. We could be looking at a free-agent safety class that includes Earl Thomas, Landon Collins, Lamarcus Joyner, Tyrann Mathieu and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. Potential free-agent cornerbacks include Bradley Roby and Ronald Darby. This market could feature linebackers such as Anthony Barr and Vince Williams and defensive tackles such as Grady Jarrett, Ndamukong Suh and Sheldon Richardson.

Could it really be that -- after a year that appears poised to break all kinds of offensive records -- it's the defensive players who cash in most?

It certainly could. Lawrence sits half a sack off the league lead with 5.5 through five games. He had 14.5 sacks last year, and the Cowboys probably could have saved themselves some money by doing an extension with him in June or July before Donald and Mack blew past $20 million a year. But Lawrence's pre-2017 history included injury and suspension issues, and as one source close to the situation put it, "He had one franchise-type year, and the Cowboys wanted to see another one." Lawrence's franchise tag next year would be $20.57 million, and given where the market sits now, it's hard to see him signing for anything that pays less than about $19 million a year. And even with extensions looming for Elliott, Byron Jones and Dak Prescott over the next couple of years, the Cowboys have enough cap space to pay Lawrence at the top of the pass-rusher market and still get those other deals done.

Danielle Hunter signed a below-market extension with Minnesota, which might have hardened Houston's negotiating position, and then the Mack deal went well beyond the market, which likely hardened Clowney's position. He's got his own extensive injury history, which is part of the issue as well. But if Clowney can get through this year healthy, he should be in line to tickle that $20 million-a-year level as well. What's interesting about that as it pertains to Houston is that the Texans usually do deals for their big stars well before they reach free agency, and they often try to tamp down the average annual salary a bit on the grounds that Texans players play at least 10 games a year in states that don't have a state income tax (eight in Texas and one each in Florida and Tennessee). If Clowney is determined to break the bank, he could find himself franchised or looking elsewhere.

Ansah and Graham are a little bit of a different story, since Ansah is 29 and Graham is 30, while Lawrence is 26 and Clowney is 25. But everyone needs pass-rushers, and the age issues could just mean shorter-term deals for bigger money and/or guarantees.

One more wrinkle: At this point, next year's draft projects as a big one for defensive players -- defensive linemen in particular. That was part of the reason Oakland decided to trade Mack for first-round picks, and there might be a team or two that decides to sit out the free-agent pass-rusher market thinking they can find their solution in the draft. But as we saw with the quarterbacks this past year, the top guys will get their money. And in 2019, the money dished out to defensive players could make us all forget how much this season has been about offense.
 

kurtfaulk

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New starters with absolute certainty...
NT: High cap hit and poor production means Suh will leave in FA.
ILB: High cap hit and poor production means Barron will finally be cut.
FS: High cap hit and poor production means Joyner will leave in FA.

New starters likely, pending big production down stretch and in playoffs...
OLB: Fowler high chance of departing in FA as some team will make asinine offer, Rams might try to extend him.
5T: Brock will almost surely be cut if he doesn't sign extension that is cap friendly.
CB2: Peters should play his best next year (contract year) but do they bank on that?

So yeah I think 4 is a realistic expectation as a minimum.

suh, barron and joyner leaving should free up $35m in cap space. rams should be fine. especially replacing joyner. better players that will cost much less.

.
 

Merlin

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suh, barron and joyner leaving should free up $35m in cap space. rams should be fine. especially replacing joyner. better players that will cost much less.

Yeah and tbh looking at the early FA list it wouldn't surprise me to see them go after Earl Thomas. Safety play has been pretty damn bad for Wade since he took over and while Johnson is on the upswing improving the FS spot would help our defense immensely.

Think I'd go after Honey Badger, personally, because he's young and adds flexibility that Wade could use. But there are plenty of options and between the draft and FA I have to think Wade finally gets an overall unit that closely resembles what he's looking for.
 

BonifayRam

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Yeah and tbh looking at the early FA list it wouldn't surprise me to see them go after Earl Thomas. Safety play has been pretty damn bad for Wade since he took over and while Johnson is on the upswing improving the FS spot would help our defense immensely.Think I'd go after Honey Badger, personally, because he's young and adds flexibility that Wade could use. But there are plenty of options and between the draft and FA I have to think Wade finally gets an overall unit that closely resembles what he's looking for.

Myself I would pass on a UFA safety.I would prefer utilizing one of the probable two 4th round draft selections for a high free safety early on Saturday's draft. Might also pick up another safety in the 6th & 7th rounds. Vet. Earl Thomas desires big $$$ & he is on the wrong side of 30. Snead has yet to sign a big $$$ safety to the Rams.

I bet he is still :mad:mad about having to give Joyner $11.3 million for what he has done this season. It will be a while before he pays big for another one. If I were him I might be looking towards a young starting corner if he has $$$ to spend in the secondary.

Snead stands a good chance to have five of this seasons safeties return next season.....SS Marqui Christian, FS/SS Blake Countess, FS/SS John Johnson, SS Steven Parker & FS/Nickle Ramon Richards. As we have discussed before JJ III should replace Joyner giving him a better chance to show off his play making abilities.

Then all Wade needs to do is settle on a SS type to take JJ III post. The FA Market is ultra cap friendly as of late. The was a boatload trying to find jobs right before the TC opened this year. Some good bargains should be available. Both Christian & Countess will be entering their 4th seasons & will be some experience to the safety cadre again.
 

Rams43

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You do realize that without those two doing what they do, Aaron Donald might not be having the season he's having.

Yeah, AD is probably helped by the other 2 DL players, Prime Time. Some, anyway.

But he had a pretty fair year in ‘17 without Suh, don’t you think?

And is it my imagination, but didn’t Brockers have a better season last year than this one?

But the killer question is this one. Playing next to a dominating force like AD that demands so much attention, why in the world aren’t the other guys feasting? Instead, film review each Monday must be embarrassing for them.
 

BonifayRam

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As Los Angeles Rams make playoff push, many teams focused on 2019 NFL Draft
A bit of a draft primer as draft order updates and mock draft season ramps up.
Kirby Lee-USA TODAY Sports

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2018/11/27/18114874/los-angeles-rams-2019-nfl-draft-order-mock

The 10-1 Los Angeles Rams head into Week 13 ready to solidify their position at or near the top of the NFC with the playoffs looming.

But now past Thanksgiving, many teams are essentially wrapping things up and preparing for the 2019 offseason and the 2019 NFL Draft. Six teams (the Oakland Raiders, San Francisco 49ers, Arizona Cardinals, New York Jets, Jacksonville Jaguars and New York Giants) have less than four wins and are in pre-offseason mode (the 2014 Carolina Panthers were 3-7-1 after 11 games and still made the playoffs...but that’s just aliens at work). Then you’ve got the four-, five- and six-win teams fighting out for wild card space. Each week here on, though, you can eliminate one win more. Any four-win teams next week can start making vacation plans in January. Five-win teams heading into Week 15 are in the same boat.

With so much of the NFL (and soon, a majority) looking at March 13 when the NFL New Year starts with an eye towards the draft, here are the three flashpoints for the Rams.

Draft order
This is a bigger deal for teams who have severe roster issues and are in the mix for players whose draft stock really hinges on the early picks, it’s still a factor for the Rams. The Rams’ draft order will be set by their performance in the playoffs, but suffice to say it’ll be late in rounds.

As of right now, here’s the Rams’ draft order for next spring:

2019 NFL Draft LA Rams Order
Rd # Rd# Pick
1 TBD TBD Rams pick
4 TBD TBD Rams pick
5 TBD TBD Rams pick
6 TBD TBD Rams pick

The second-round pick went to the Kansas City Chiefs for CB Marcus Peters. The third-round pick went to the Jaguars for EDGE Dante Fowler, Jr., though that will change with compensatory picks. Assuming the Rams get at least one third-round pick for either Jets CB Trumaine Johnson or Kansas City Chiefs WR Sammy Watkins, the Jags will get the comp pick; if we get two third-rounders, the Jags get the higher one. And our seventh-round pick was packaged with LB Alec Ogletree for two picks in the 2018 NFL Draft. So we’ll see where we pick after the playoffs and once we get comp picks settled in late February, we’ll have our draft pick haul...before General Manager Les Snead begins trading them all away.

Roster gaps
This will certainly be at the forefront of many Rams fans’ minds.

Edge rushers, inside linebackers, cornerbacks, offensive line help, safeties, defensive line youth, backup quarterback options...It’s all coming down the pipe. So prioritizing things will obviously be a major effort.

In a draft order update with roster gaps at NFL.com, they’ve got our roster gaps as OLB>DB>DT (I’m going to try to get away from using “roster needs” as it’s misleading as a term given the varying level of “need” involved). Not much to quibble with there in terms fo the priorities, though I’d separate the needs for cornerback and safety.

Part of what we have to consider with roster gaps is attrition:

2019 Los Angeles Rams Free Agents

Tavon Austin WR UFA Traded
Jamon Brown G UFA Waived
Brandin Cooks WR UFA Re-signed, 5-yr, $80m
Aaron Donald DT UFA Re-signed, 6-yr, $135m
Todd Gurley RB UFA (option) Re-signed, 4-yr, $60m
Rob Havenstein OL UFA Re-signed, 4-yr, $32.5m
Marcus Peters CB UFA (option) Optioned
Kayvon Webster CB UFA Released
Dominique Easley DE UFA
Dante Fowler, Jr. EGDE UFA
Bryce Hager ILB UFA
Lamarcus Joyner S UFA
Matt Longacre OLB UFA
Sean Mannion QB UFA
Rodger Saffold OL UFA
Sam Shields CB UFA
Ndamukong Suh DL UFA
Ethan Westbrooks DE UFA
Ramik Wilson ILB UFA
Malcolm Brown RB RFA
Blake Countess CB RFA
Morgan Fox DE RFA
Troy Hill CB RFA
Isaiah Johnson S RFA
Cory Littleton ILB RFA
Carlos Thompson OLB RFA
Michael Dunn RT ERFA
Sam Ficken K ERFA
Aaron Neary LG ERFA
Kevin Peterson CB ERFA
Garrett Sickels OLB ERFA


So part of what will determine our roster gaps is which of the pending free agents the Rams could re-sign. I’d expect DL Ndamukong Suh and S Lamarcus Joyner to exit (more comp picks!), but what of OL Rodger Saffold III or the three edge rushers in Fowler, Dominique Easley and Matt Longacre? And what about the Rams’ plays in free agency or Snead’s potential trade action next spring? Any new moves could erase roster gaps that exist right now.

Performance
This is the aspect that’s hardest to project that can change everything. Going into this season, you could have made a pretty strong argument for drafting a right guard in the 2019 offseason. Now? Hard not to think Austin Blythe could man that spot for years.

Or take cornerback. Peters and CB Aqib Talib both are on deals that expire after next season. How the two play down the stretch and in the postseason will help the Rams determine their value for the two on a potential new deal while impacting a potential decision to bring in new cornerback talent through the draft.

Longacre has likely played his way out. What about Fowler? What does he have to do to earn a new deal? Will the Rams invite the option to take an edge rusher early regardless?

What of the senior members of the offensive line in LT Andrew Whitworth and C John Sullivan? The Rams took OL Joseph Noteboom in the third round last year, though he may be a more fitting successor to Saffold. And yes, Noteboom preceded C Brian Allen’s addition, but would the Rams be comfortable slotting him in any time soon given the scope of the expectations for this franchise in the short-term? If Whitworth and Sullivan begin to show signs of age, the Rams would certainly have to elevate the effort to find a successor for each as Noteboom and Allen are the only backup OL on the roster. Given the reaction to Noteboom and Allen in the draft, I’m not sure taking an offensive lineman in the first round would be terribly popular, though you could certainly justify it on the merits.

I’ll get cracking on mock drafts soon. But as we do more general updates on the draft, it’s going to revolve around these three factors.

If the Rams can handle the transition well given these three factors, there’s little reason to think the success they’ve enjoyed last year and thus far this season (to the extent that you can qualify it success without a playoff win...yet...) will fade any time soon.
 

SteveBrown

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suh, barron and joyner leaving should free up $35m in cap space. rams should be fine. especially replacing joyner. better players that will cost much less.

.
Suh is on a one year contract so we don't get $14mill freed up...major bummer. BUt Barron and Joyner are around $20 mill, and if they had the guts to cut Brockers that would be 30 mill....we need some serviceable people, and I think Kiser, though lacking in coverage, would help the toughness of our D.
 

Zaphod

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They did trade Ogletree, so I wouldn't be surprised if they walk away from Brockers in an attempt to find better fits for the system, assuming that Wade is still the DC.

Something has to give, Peters, Brockers and Suh have been unimpressive and they really need to improve at linebacker and NT.

Whatever they do, I just hope that they can shore up the defense this year in time for the Super Bowl ;)
 

TheTackle

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You do realize that without those two doing what they do, Aaron Donald might not be having the season he's having.

I have to agree - I am not sure how people can say Suh is not playing well? I agree he is not a NT and should be playing end - if you are looking for a roll call of players not playing up to their contract Barron and Joyner top the class. Brockers is not making a big enough impact to justify the hype and salary - Is the scheme the problem

To say Suh is dialling it in, is quite frankly insulting to the man, team and coaches. I have to disagree
 

1maGoh

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Suh is on a one year contract so we don't get $14mill freed up...major bummer. BUt Barron and Joyner are around $20 mill, and if they had the guts to cut Brockers that would be 30 mill....we need some serviceable people, and I think Kiser, though lacking in coverage, would help the toughness of our D.
Joyner of on a franchise tag this year, so I don't think we save any money for him either.
 

majrleaged

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Brockers left a game earlier in the season. I believe it was his shoulder. I think he is playing hurt and it is handicapping him.
 

badnews

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I have a problem with the idea of writing off a guy like Brockers because he has been a dissapointment to your expectations through 11 games.

Brockers has been a very good player for us throughout his career. A leader in the locker room and a beast on the field. Like lots of these guys, he could be playing through something. He isnt old by todays NFL standards and could have several good seasons left.

 

TheTackle

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I have a problem with the idea of writing off a guy like Brockers because he has been a dissapointment to your expectations through 11 games.

Brockers has been a very good player for us throughout his career. A leader in the locker room and a beast on the field. Like lots of these guys, he could be playing through something. He isnt old by todays NFL standards and could have several good seasons left.

I did not see anyone writing Brockers off - but he has, up until this point, been solid at best in some games

Is he injured? It hasn’t appeared anywhere, but that would provide some explanation. For me, his best play was in the 4:3 and then at Nose in the 4-4. Yet, many of us argued we needed a true NT at the end of last season?
 

badnews

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I did not see anyone writing Brockers off - but he has, up until this point, been solid at best in some games

Is he injured? It hasn’t appeared anywhere, but that would provide some explanation. For me, his best play was in the 4:3 and then at Nose in the 4-4. Yet, many of us argued we needed a true NT at the end of last season?

We dont know what he is dealing with, if anything. We are not in the loop on what goes on with these guys other than what we see on our TVs. We might think we deserve to know their real injury issues or the things going on in their private lives, but we don't and the teams and players dont owe us that.
There is not any Tavon-esque attitude towards Brockers here obviously, but I have seen several posts already targeting Brockers as a guy we should/will move away from rather than extend.
Do we need a true NT in Wades D? Maybe, but I seem to remember MB losing weight to play at DE because we needed more there, not because he wasn't a capable NT.
This being Brockers last season as a Ram was being floated last season and now with a thus far seemingly subpar season and some extra attention and frustration towards the Defense, the most disgruntled fans start looking for "over-paid under-performers" to replace, as if its that easy.

Not that any of what we discuss plays into what the team actually does or will do but... I still get uncomfortable.
To me you keep guys like Michael Brockers as long as he can play at a price the team can afford.