I believe in Keenum! Too early to judge Goff

[Ramatik]

Are you saying surgeons of all walks don't do the actual work on cadavers? I'd say working on a cadaver and actually seeing what the surgery entails is a hell of a lot more on hands of a training than holding a clip board and watching a football game from the sidelines. Also prop's on comparing being a QB to a brain surgeon or a guy in the kitchen at Denny's buttering toast.

Really? Really? I'm sorry, I said "Fake Head". I should have said "Cadaver" for the meticulous and overly picky. (notice I refrained from saying anal?) Oh, and I didn't bring up the analogy in the first place, but that would mean you would actually have to read the post AND comprehend it. I try not to be aggressive and adversarial in here, but if you come out like that, then ...

So.. bright one, think of cadavers as practice heads. It's NOT the REAL THING. Kind of like Practice and Preseason games in football. That is not just standing on the sidelines holding a clipboard Skippy. That is learning in the classroom, studying on your own time, going through drills and plays on the practice field. Kinda like... I don't know... cadaver heads!

I'm sorry you are upset. All the bitching in the world isn't going to help you get your way. Goff is not starting right now.

Too bad.

And now I want him to sit all year and learn just because of your crappy attitude.

 

[dieterbrock]

Here's a thought concerning a QB learning from sitting on the bench. How many games did Warner start before taking over for Green in 1999? Rodgers didn't start a game his first 3 years. He got into 7 games that were already lost (3) or won (3) and 1 where Favre was injured (a 37-27 loss). He had a 93.8 QBR (28-13 TD-INT 4000 yards) the first year he was the #1. Sitting and watching didn't hurt either of those 2 guys. Surely Goff isn't going to be sitting long unless Keenum really surprises and plays over his head or unless Goff is a total lug nut and can't learn the offense (which he isn't). There really isn't an urgency to get him in there before he's ready. He can't even call all the plays in the huddle yet. There's still almost 2 weeks until game 1 and even if he doesn't start until week 3, that's practically a month of practice and study.

And after Favre's last season at 13-3, Rodgers was 6-10 in that 1st year. So its ok with you if Goff doesn't start until next year, and we win only 6 games?
And curiously, why go all the way back to Rodgers when more recent examples of QB who played as rookies is prevalent? There's Cam Newton who in college didn't run anything remotely close to a pro offense, he ran the ball as much as he threw and he was ready right away throwing for 400 yards in his first 2 games? Or how about Marcus Mariota who didn't call any plays and took all his snaps from Shotgun? 1st game, perfect QB rating. Joe Flacco? All his snaps from shotgun, played at 1-aa and played right away and team made AFC championship game? RGIII? OROY and Playoffs from a spread college offense? Russell Wilson? Andrew Luck.... and on and on....
Point is, those guys weren't ready either. But the coaches got them ready as could be and let the talent which they were drafted for, come out

 

[jrry32]

That's a fine Analogy Old School. Heh

Let's see how it holds up to another profession like.... say, Brain Surgery. Just get in there and fix stuff! That's the best way to learn!

Hmmm, how many years do you have to study? How many fake heads will you have to work on? How many times will you have to sit on the "bench" and watch it being done before you get to put your hands into somebody's skull?

Okay that's two extremes. I think Quarterback in the NFL may be somewhere in the middle of Buttering a piece of Toast and Brain Surgeon.

But the money being made for skills that most people don't have is certainly closer to the top end of the scale.

Goff already went through his years of learning in college. If we're making this comparison, Goff would now be a doctor working at a hospital. I don't know how hospitals do it. Maybe they would have Goff watch their other surgeons do the job for a time before he did anything. No idea.

What do I know is that Goff isn't a doctor. He's a #1 overall NFL draft pick. Who was the last #1 overall pick at QB to not start week 1? It hasn't happened since JaWalrus Russell.

 

[OldSchool]

Really? Really? I'm sorry, I said "Fake Head". I should have said "Cadaver" for the meticulous and overly picky. (notice I refrained from saying anal?) Oh, and I didn't bring up the analogy in the first place, but that would mean you would actually have to read the post AND comprehend it. I try not to be aggressive and adversarial in here, but if you come out like that, then ...

So.. bright one, think of cadavers as practice heads. It's NOT the REAL THING. Kind of like Practice and Preseason games in football. That is not just standing on the sidelines holding a clipboard Skippy. That is learning in the classroom, studying on your own time, going through drills and plays on the practice field. Kinda like... I don't know... cadaver heads!

I'm sorry you are upset. All the bitching in the world isn't going to help you get your way. Goff is not starting right now.

Too bad.

And now I want him to sit all year and learn just because of your crappy attitude.

Hahaha my crappy attitude? Sorry I offended you have a great day and I hope you enjoy the season. I wasn't adversarial or aggressive sorry you mistook my post.

 

[Mojo Ram]

@OldSchool
@Ramatik

It's just opinions and football talk. Stay cool. Stay Gold. K?

 

[snackdaddy]

Whats done is done. Keenum is now the game one starter. Too late to get Goff some game experience with the first team. Fisher screwed up by not naming Goff the starter from day one and having him work exclusively with the 1's and playing the preseason with the 1's. I mean, if the plan is to have him start at some point in the season, then he shoulda been grooming him from the start.

What Fisher essentially did was groom Goff to be the backup. Now, the first regular season game he starts will be the first time he got actual game experience with all the 1's. What can you expect with that? And what was the point of giving up all those picks if they weren't going to give him every opportunity to be the day one starter? Can we reasonably expect Goff to come in and save the day if they can't win with Keenum? Not without real game experience with the first team.

 

[OldSchool]

@OldSchool
@Ramatik

It's just opinions and football talk. Stay cool. Stay Gold. K?
View attachment 15918

Absolutely, the last thing I'm gonna get upset about is a message board discussion. Hard to be in a bad mood when you got some Ronnie playin.

 

[Fatbot]

If we were desperate.....Shaun Hill or Austin Davis or Nick Foles under center, then I could see the rush. Keenum can direct the offense...

This is the weirdest part to me about the whole thing, that people have convinced themselves that Keenum is somehow better than Shaun Hill or Austin Davis or Nick Foles or Kellen Clemens of any of those clones. Keenum is just another clone. A guy you hope can manage the game. A guy with zero expectation of him winning a game, a guy where his top ceiling is being happy if he just doesn't lose it.

So I don't get the comment, "If we were desperate..." Because we ARE desperate at QB, some people just don't see it anymore for unknown reasons. Fooled by Keenum just "not sucking" in preseason? Or even if somehow people think Keenum has been "amazing lights out" in preseason, I still wouldn't get how it overrules the desperation that was so blatantly obvious just months ago. The Rams could have stayed where they were and just picked up any developmental QB in the draft, so why trade a boatload of picks to move up to #1 for Goff? It was desperation. Desperation for any QB that could be a franchise QB better than a game manager.

And now after the Rams made the desperate move, instead of solving the desperation, it appears that Fisher is perfectly content to just stay in the same QB rut as last year, and the year before, and the year before ...? The only difference now being we don't have the draft capital to invest in improving the rest of the roster? Sorry but FUBAR seems to be the only accurate term at this point.

The coincidence of playing Minnesota couldn't be more perfect. The Vikings are absolutely panicking because catastrophe has forced them to go from their franchise QB who gives them the chance to have a special season to a "game manager" QB. Meanwhile, the Rams are almost giddy to be voluntarily choosing the game manager over the only franchise guy that gives the chance at a special season, with many fans downright content it's happening and buying into this "he's not ready" theme.

Not ready for what? Not ready to go 7-9 as a game manager? That should be a good thing! Sorry but I would rather play the "not ready rookie" that might end up 5-11 while trying to go 11-5, than play the known "game manager" that will end up 7-9 while trying to go 7-9.

Well, I'm just a fan and not gonna freak out and I will root for whatever team is out there of course, but I'm still gonna call it like I see it when I disagree with what's going on with the team, my apologies if it's too negative. But I think Fisher has mismanaged the situation and he's now eyeing game 5 as the "safest time" to start Goff, but by then the Rams will probably be 1-3 and on their way to an 8-8 season at best.

 

[nanotech]

Well, I certainly don't have the answers for this QB issue. I just wish that all you guys that do call Fisher, Snead and Kroenke to straighten it out before the season starts. I just want to watch some football.

 

[OldSchool]

This is the weirdest part to me about the whole thing, that people have convinced themselves that Keenum is somehow better than Shaun Hill or Austin Davis or Nick Foles or Kellen Clemens of any of those clones. Keenum is just another clone. A guy you hope can manage the game. A guy with zero expectation of him winning a game, a guy where his top ceiling is being happy if he just doesn't lose it.

The funniest part of it all to me is you know that if we were getting ready for a matchup vs a team led by Case Keenum people would be talking about how we're gonna roll a team with a mediocre QB. But since he's on the Rams he's going to lead us to victory

 

[Bluesy]

You can argue all day about how much natural talent Keenum has, but he sure is taking the role of a great leader this off season (well at least from what we can see). Good role model for Goff to look up to.

 

[jrry32]

Well, I certainly don't have the answers for this QB issue. I just wish that all you guys that do call Fisher, Snead and Kroenke to straighten it out before the season starts. I just want to watch some football.

Fisher knows the answer. Keenum was on the team when we traded up to #1.

 

[Wolfecola]

Goff already went through his years of learning in college. If we're making this comparison, Goff would now be a doctor working at a hospital. I don't know how hospitals do it. Maybe they would have Goff watch their other surgeons do the job for a time before he did anything. No idea.

What do I know is that Goff isn't a doctor. He's a #1 overall NFL draft pick. Who was the last #1 overall pick at QB to not start week 1? It hasn't happened since JaWalrus Russell.

Aren't doctors in school for like 11 years?

I'm fine with Keenum starting game 1. I'm also fine with us going with Goff. As long as they keep feeding the Gurley man, we'll be fine.

 

[BriansRams]

If I were the owner and If Keenum won tons of games for the LA Rams this year, then I would view the trade up for Goff as a stupid wasted move and Fisher/Snead would be fired since they have no idea what they are doing.
Goff starts and starts soon!

Wait can I get this straight. So you'd be mad if the Rams won tons of games this season (10 or more) with Keenum at QB?

 

[kurtfaulk]

Aren't doctors in school for like 11 years?

I'm fine with Keenum starting game 1. I'm also fine with us going with Goff. As long as they keep feeding the Gurley man, we'll be fine.

amen to this. gurley will lead the way.

but goff needs to get in there as soon as possible because by the time the playoffs start he needs to be ready to compete with the best.

.

 

[So Ram]

Whats done is done. Keenum is now the game one starter. Too late to get Goff some game experience with the first team. Fisher screwed up by not naming Goff the starter from day one and having him work exclusively with the 1's and playing the preseason with the 1's. I mean, if the plan is to have him start at some point in the season, then he shoulda been grooming him from the start.

What Fisher essentially did was groom Goff to be the backup. Now, the first regular season game he starts will be the first time he got actual game experience with all the 1's. What can you expect with that? And what was the point of giving up all those picks if they weren't going to give him every opportunity to be the day one starter? Can we reasonably expect Goff to come in and save the day if they can't win with Keenum? Not without real game experience with the first team.

What Fisher has done is give The Rams the best chance to win . Kimberly says Keenum worked out a lot in the off season with Kenny Britt & Lance Kendrick. Goff sleeps with Higbee which will be a excellent combo in time.

--- who is to say Goff does not start this Thursday night ??? Maybe I'm dreaming, but thought that might be a possibility ??

--- Fisher I believe did the right thing to make Goff earn the starting QB job. He did not do enough. Go back to wRly training camp throwing INT's with first & second team.

 

[jrry32]

What Fisher has done is give The Rams the best chance to win . Kimberly says Keenum worked out a lot in the off season with Kenny Britt & Lance Kendrick. Goff sleeps with Higbee which will be a excellent combo in time.

--- who is to say Goff does not start this Thursday night ??? Maybe I'm dreaming, but thought that might be a possibility ??

--- Fisher I believe did the right thing to make Goff earn the starting QB job. He did not do enough. Go back to wRly training camp throwing INT's with first & second team.

I disagree. He did the wrong thing. Fisher has played this game with a number of talented rookies. It's not realistic to expect a rookie to "beat out" a veteran who already knows the system and playbook. It's a 100 meter sprint to the finish and the veteran is already 50 meters there before the rookie even lines up.

And you might say that this makes it the right move to sit him. I disagree. There are a whole hell of a lot of coaches around the league who manage to have rookies come in, start from the beginning, and play well. Fisher's system creates an illusion that the rookie isn't ready. Go back and look at the preseason performances of Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, and Jameis Winston. They made it seem like none of those guys were ready to start. Yet, those guys all played well as rookies. And it would have been crazy to start the veteran backups on those teams ahead of any of those guys.

Goff will get better each time he's on the field. Unfortunately, Keenum is Keenum. All Fisher has done is delay Goff's development.

 

[Akrasian]

The thing is, as constructed it would take an amazing amount of things going right for the Rams to make the playoffs with Keenum. Not impossible, but a long shot. If the Rams were going to go the slow development route, then they could have drafted a developmental QB and still had either a first, a second and a third or two seconds and a third to fill holes. That would have increased the chances of the Rams making the playoffs with Case. As it is though, they lost half their starting secondary, gave up a home game to fly to London (also lessening the effectiveness of their off week) and had no early picks except for Goff. Some of their mid to late round gambles will work out - but not all.

Having Goff improve as the season goes along would be good marketing - and depending on how quickly he improves, could even make it more likely that they actually have a winning record and maybe make the playoffs.

 

[Dolpho]

Goff has me concerned with his multiple turnovers during the preseason, his apparent lack of play calling ability from the huddle and his poor decisions that have led to questionable passes.

I'm really glad we have Keenum as a first string QB this season. With Goff we can expect stupid decisions and more turnovers that will lose us games. With Keenum we can at least win some games.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Goff already went through his years of learning in college. If we're making this comparison, Goff would now be a doctor working at a hospital. I don't know how hospitals do it. Maybe they would have Goff watch their other surgeons do the job for a time before he did anything. No idea.

What do I know is that Goff isn't a doctor. He's a #1 overall NFL draft pick. Who was the last #1 overall pick at QB to not start week 1? It hasn't happened since JaWalrus Russell.

Essentially what they do is have them shadow more experienced surgeons for the patient's sake and then when the patient is not awake (as in they're out for surgery) the new doctor does most of it with the more experienced guys watching.... Sometimes.... Or they just lie and say they've done it a bunch of times and aren't new or anything.. People don't like to hear that their doctor is new, but they need to practice, so they just let them go without people knowing... At least that's what I've been told from people who are in the field.

That being said, I think that Goff should start, it's the best way he'll improve. Even though he'll make some mistakes, it's going to be the best way to learn... His talent is obvious and he makes strides quickly, so go for it.

That being said again, Goff wouldn't be a doctor, he'd be going into Medical school (or rather applying, since it's been 3 years instead of 4).... Still though, Goff can do it, he should do it..