Fisher says there will be change...

[moklerman]

I'd rather have a "meh" McCoy than any adjective you could use to describe Cutler. Match up Cutler's numbers with his overall success and his attitude and I just don't see where anyone can make a realistic case why he might be better than any of the other lesser known guys out there.

Well, in a "bad" year where he's rumored to be available, Cutler put up 30 TD in 15 games. That's much more production than the other guys and the thing that is supposedly a big problem from Cutler, his attitude, is one thing that Fisher is good at dealing with.

As jrry has already mentioned, Cutler isn't a guy you want to build a team around but if you put him in the right situation, he has the potential to be a lot more productive than Cousins or McCoy or any of the pipedream backups that are out there.

I understand the optimism and hope that the next Rich Gannon or Kurt Warner or whoever is sitting out there somewhere but I don't want the Rams to take that approach. Cutler's got his warts but overall, it's a workable hypothetical IMO. I liken it to what Arians did with Palmer and what Whisenhunt did with Warner. Both of those guys had high end potential but had fallen into really bad habits and had to learn to be more protective with the ball while still being productive.

I think Cutler would benefit the same way if matched with the right coach, system and philosophy. Is it Fisher? I'm not 100% sure but I think there's a chance that it could be. Even worst case scenario, I think the Rams could still have a shot at the playoffs if Cutler stayed exactly where he is in terms of production. If the team is scoring points, I think it can deal with the offense turning the ball over.

That's been the problem for so many years now. The offense has been so anemic that if it turns the ball over, the game's over.

 

[Faceplant]

When was this happening? When was it a bad idea? I'm just curious what turtling is.

It seemed to me that whenever we had a lead going into half, we would come out ultra conservative in the second half (both offensively and defensively) as if we would just try to hold a 10-6 or whatever lead. I get it. Fisher is just as happy with a 3 point win as a 30 pt blowout...I am too, but it seems that we start second halves with series after series of run(middle), run(middle), 5 yd slant/fade, punt. I know they aren't trying to LOSE the game, it just APPEARS to me that they get away from some of the things that may have gotten then the lead in the first place. Again, that is just my perception, and I haven't studied game film like some of you have to corroborate that stance. Wish I had the time to though.

 

[moklerman]

I pretty much agree. I wouldn't be surprised if the screws were being put to him internally though.
Fisher is a pretty loyal dude, I don't think he'd voluntarily jettison Schotty.
I see both sides of the Schotty coin for the record. I like what he's shown at times, but the inconsistencies have been mind numbing too.
I won't weep if he's gone, but I hope it's nothing too radical that will set the team backwards, e.g. Josh McDaniels in 2011.

I still think the McDaniels hire could have worked and was a good decision. It was the strike(no offseason), no QB coach and all the other things piled on top of the McDaniels hire that makes that hiring seem so poor.

If he'd been given time and the right circumstances, it would have been a lot different outcome. Even in New England with Brady and that o-line, it's taken time for them to find a rhythm. McDaniels isn't my first choice or anything but I like his general philosophy and playcalling better than what the Rams have had.

 

[jrry32]

It seemed to me that whenever we had a lead going into half, we would come out ultra conservative in the second half (both offensively and defensively) as if we would just try to hold a 10-6 or whatever lead. I get it. Fisher is just as happy with a 3 point win as a 30 pt blowout...I am too, but it seems that we start second halves with series after series of run(middle), run(middle), 5 yd slant/fade, punt. I know they aren't trying to LOSE the game, it just APPEARS to me that they get away from some of the things that may have gotten then the lead in the first place. Again, that is just my perception, and I haven't studied game film like some of you have to corroborate that stance. Wish I had the time to though.

But why would we come out slinging the ball around with a 2nd or 3rd string QB? Wouldn't it make sense to try to use the run game in that situation?

 

[Rams and Gators]

You know i know your some form of admin on here but im growing real tired of your snarky 1 line attacks with no backup to your insult or any shread of info to back up your accusations. We get it you dont like fisher we got it 50 snarky insults ago.

I fully respect your right to feel that way, I appreciate you letting me know.

 

[ZigZagRam]

Sign me up for Cutler if there's any way of making it happen. Cutler may not be as good as Sam Bradford when all is said and done, but who knows if Sam will ever reach his potential. I'd feel a lot better knowing that Cutler would actually be on the field.

 

[CGI_Ram]

You know i know your some form of admin on here but im growing real tired of your snarky 1 line attacks with no backup to your insult or any shread of info to back up your accusations. We get it you dont like fisher we got it 50 snarky insults ago.

Okay...

I appreciate the spirit of your message, Rabid. But please let a Mod know if you have concerns so we can take these things to a place we can work them.

Secondly, R&G is not an admin or a moderator. Just want to clear that up. Although I do consider him a valued member as yourself.

Thirdly, I think I'll use this message as a means to remind all members; "snarky" is not how we operate here among each other.

That's not directed at Rabid or R&G.

It's a code of conduct how we communicate on this message board. Whether talking Fisher, Schotty, or in debate. As moderators we have noticed too much of that and will be dealing with it if we have to.

Thank you!

 

[Faceplant]

But why would we come out slinging the ball around with a 2nd or 3rd string QB? Wouldn't it make sense to try to use the run game in that situation?

Of course, and I agree with that strategy. However, it seems they get less, how you say....creative with the running plays when they start the second half. While I think most would agree that we aren't going to throw it all over the yard with a backup QB and porous OL, I think we would also agree that you need to find first downs somehow, and that may mean keeping things more creative for longer stretches. I liked Schott's use of the jet sweep this year for instance. It didn't always get great yardage, but it kept an extra man down in the box, which could be used to open up things for Britt and Cook down field. I guess I would just like to see Schotty be less obvious sometimes. How many times, particularly when we were trying to protect a lead with an entire half to go, did you just know Mason/Cunningham/Stacy/Austin was going to run A gap on first down? Usually on second as well. If we can predict those calls, you beter believe the DCs in the NFL have a bead on it as well. Everyone has tendencies, but some OCs seem to lock into them in certain situations....again and again. Just my opinion of course. Then again, what do I know....

 

[Sum1]

Well, in a "bad" year where he's rumored to be available, Cutler put up 30 TD in 15 games. That's much more production than the other guys and the thing that is supposedly a big problem from Cutler, his attitude, is one thing that Fisher is good at dealing with.

As jrry has already mentioned, Cutler isn't a guy you want to build a team around but if you put him in the right situation, he has the potential to be a lot more productive than Cousins or McCoy or any of the pipedream backups that are out there.

I understand the optimism and hope that the next Rich Gannon or Kurt Warner or whoever is sitting out there somewhere but I don't want the Rams to take that approach. Cutler's got his warts but overall, it's a workable hypothetical IMO. I liken it to what Arians did with Palmer and what Whisenhunt did with Warner. Both of those guys had high end potential but had fallen into really bad habits and had to learn to be more protective with the ball while still being productive.

I think Cutler would benefit the same way if matched with the right coach, system and philosophy. Is it Fisher? I'm not 100% sure but I think there's a chance that it could be. Even worst case scenario, I think the Rams could still have a shot at the playoffs if Cutler stayed exactly where he is in terms of production. If the team is scoring points, I think it can deal with the offense turning the ball over.

That's been the problem for so many years now. The offense has been so anemic that if it turns the ball over, the game's over.

28 TDs while throwing the ball A LOT...with 18 INTs. The offense the Rams have is best suited for a QB that doesn't turn the ball over. That right there is enough to see he isn't a fit.

And Fisher has a track record of dealing with athletes with a checkered past better than he does with bad attitudes (and even that isn't a squeaky clean record, see Pacman Jones)...Jay Cutler is much more Vince Young than he is Albert Haynesworth.

Jay Cutler is a career 85 passer rating. He has 9 years of work in the NFL...the guy has proven that his potential was met early and he is a mediocre (at best) QB with a big arm...that's it. He will lose you as many games with his big arm as he will win you. I think if you trade for him you are spinning your wheels with another expensive guy offering no more than what you can get in a lot of other places.

 

[jrry32]

28 TDs while throwing the ball A LOT...with 18 INTs. The offense the Rams have is best suited for a QB that doesn't turn the ball over. That right there is enough to see he isn't a fit.

And yet, with a similar coach in Lovie Smith, the Bears were quite successful with Cutler. The offense the Rams have is best suited for a starting caliber QB. We need one. Cutler is good enough for us to win 10+ games with. Lovie Smith and the Bears managed to do that with him when they had a good to great defense. And it's not like that team was stacked with talent.

And Fisher has a track record of dealing with athletes with a checkered past better than he does with bad attitudes (and even that isn't a squeaky clean record, see Pacman Jones)...Jay Cutler is much more Vince Young than he is Albert Haynesworth.

Yea, I don't really see how Cutler is Vince Young. Cutler has his warts but the guy isn't lazy, he isn't a criminal, and he isn't a locker-room cancer. He's just not a leader and he's arrogant and moody.

Jay Cutler is a career 85 passer rating. He has 9 years of work in the NFL...the guy has proven that his potential was met early and he is a mediocre (at best) QB with a big arm...that's it. He will lose you as many games with his big arm as he will win you. I think if you trade for him you are spinning your wheels with another expensive guy offering no more than what you can get in a lot of other places.

The dude is better than a mediocre QB.

I'd like to know which players that "you can get in a lot of other places" that offer what Cutler does. Because there were a lot of teams last year that certainly couldn't find them...Cleveland, St. Louis, Buffalo, Washington, etc.

Trading for him gives this team a QB good enough to get them to the playoffs. And he gives this team time(which is invaluable) to find a QB of the future.

 

[Warner4Prez]

And yet, with a similar coach in Lovie Smith, the Bears were quite successful with Cutler. The offense the Rams have is best suited for a starting caliber QB. We need one. Cutler is good enough for us to win 10+ games with. Lovie Smith and the Bears managed to do that with him when they had a good to great defense. And it's not like that team was stacked with talent.



Yea, I don't really see how Cutler is Vince Young. Cutler has his warts but the guy isn't lazy, he isn't a criminal, and he isn't a locker-room cancer. He's just not a leader and he's arrogant and moody.



The dude is better than a mediocre QB.

I'd like to know which players that "you can get in a lot of other places" that offer what Cutler does. Because there were a lot of teams last year that certainly couldn't find them...Cleveland, St. Louis, Buffalo, Washington, etc.

Trading for him gives this team a QB good enough to get them to the playoffs. And he gives this team time(which is invaluable) to find a QB of the future.

I feel like you enjoy playing devil's advocate from time to time. One minute I think you hate the idea of Cutler, the next I think you're banging the drum.
I'd be for it personally. I think if you could meld the ball control run heavy offense to minimize Cutler's propensity for taking unnecessary shots down field it could be a big win. He's got a great arm, just put him in a position to make higher percentage throws.

 

[LesBaker]

I think Cutlers good outweighs his bad by plenty and if they land him I'm going to be OK with it.

 

[fearsomefour]

Josh McDaniel's is coming back! Christmas prayers have been answered

You almost made me do a spit take with my morning coffee....

 

[iced]

No to Cutler - been pretty bad throughout his career in the red zone, and then there's the turnovers..

 

[moklerman]

28 TDs while throwing the ball A LOT...with 18 INTs.

Well, I did say "put up" not "passed for". As far as his numbers being inflated by a large number of attempts, I disagree. His 5.0 TD% is top 10 in the league. Again, I'm not lobbying Cutler as one of the greats but his efficiency numbers this year are just a tick below Rivers' numbers. I'd certainly take that for the Rams.

And Fisher has a track record of dealing with athletes with a checkered past better than he does with bad attitudes (and even that isn't a squeaky clean record, see Pacman Jones)...Jay Cutler is much more Vince Young than he is Albert Haynesworth.

I agree and I'm not predicting or guaranteeing anything. I just think that Cutler would be plenty productive with the right kind of "support". Fisher seems like a possibility. Maybe his style would be terrible for Cutler, I don't know. I don't know what Cutler needs but Fisher seems like a reasonable bet for a "head case".

Jay Cutler is a career 85 passer rating. He has 9 years of work in the NFL...the guy has proven that his potential was met early and he is a mediocre (at best) QB with a big arm...that's it.

I don't know if that's what he proved. His production took a real upswing with Trestman. His completion % and TD% both went up while nothing else got worse. Sure, his INT% still needs to come down but the point is that he seemed to show that he still has room to improve. But at worst, the Rams would be getting a QB who will put up a 85-90 passer rating and threaten defenses deeper than 10 yards down the field and he'll likely be on the field.

Not a dream acquisition but one that would greatly improve the team IMO. Because Shaun Hill may be able to post a passer rating in the 80's, but that is just a trick of the formula IMO.

 

[moklerman]

I'm sure we don't rank our tiers the same way.

Naw, I don't get that detailed. I don't even have defined categories per se. It's basically top guys, starters and everybody else.

 

[RamsJunkie]

here is jay cutlers win loss record

PlayerGSWLT
Jay Cutler120 62 58 0


Dang near .500 but like @jerry said he wouldnt have to carry this team like he has had to carry other teams. you put him on this team I'm one that thinks hes a 10 plus win QB and gives us a shot to win it all.

 

[jrry32]

I think Cutlers good outweighs his bad by plenty and if they land him I'm going to be OK with it.

Agreed. Like I've said before, the Bears were 27-13 with Cutler as QB and Marinhelli as DC. Because Cutler isn't a guy who will elevate a team but he isn't a guy that will cause them to underachieve either. With a strong defense, Cutler will do enough to allow you to win. When the Bears had their strong defense, they won with Cutler...they won 2 out of every 3 games.

We have a defense and we have solid talent on offense. If we upgrade the OL, we can win with Cutler.

And he gives us a couple years to find our QBotF.

I feel like you enjoy playing devil's advocate from time to time. One minute I think you hate the idea of Cutler, the next I think you're banging the drum.
I'd be for it personally. I think if you could meld the ball control run heavy offense to minimize Cutler's propensity for taking unnecessary shots down field it could be a big win. He's got a great arm, just put him in a position to make higher percentage throws.

I've never hated the idea of Cutler. Like everything, it depends on what we have to give up. I am all for Cutler if it's a reasonable trade.

 

[ZigZagRam]

Just throwing this out there. I think Brian Quick and Kenny Britt would be studs with Jay Cutler tossing them the ball.

 

[thirteen28]

Definitely some interesting comments by Fisher, but hard to know what it means.

Fisher himself needs to take a good hard look in the mirror and re-evaluate himself on a few things. This team continues to play undisciplined football three years into his tenure, and the mistakes are killing us. We could easily be .500 or above if we merely cut the number of mistakes in half. Also, we came out flat as a pancake after our bye and after 10 days off following the Cardinals game. That's inexcusable. He also needs to re-think some of his personnel decisions, and I'm thinking especially of Wells and Joseph. I'm fine with giving guys a chance, and also giving them time to overcome a slump (like he did with Davis), but at some point you've got to pull the plug, and those two should have ended the season on the bench.

If he's going to keep Schotty (and I think he probably will), he needs to sit down with him and have a long, heart-to-heart talk. Schotty's offense is simply too complicated for its level of effectiveness. He is also a mediocre playcaller who doesn't adjust during games, fails to stick with things that are working, and generally just doesn't seem to get into the flow of a game very well or operate that well outside of his scripts. I really think if Schotty is going to be kept around then Fisher needs to hire a quality control assistant to watch the game and tap Schotty on the shoulder when he starts to get away from what's working or fails to adjust to exploit what the defense is doing. It's ok to cut Schotty some slack for the QB and OL situation, but that doesn't absolve him of many other legitimate criticisms. More than any other assistant, Schotty is the one who needs to up his game, and if he can't do that we should go in a different direction.