Case Keenum 3-1

[RAMpage28]

A fews years ago, you also would've found it hard to believe that Foles would look like Foles on the Rams. But he did, and they probably would too. This is a hard offense to succeed in and Case clearly isn't the same QB he was two years ago just like Kirk isn't the same QB he was two years ago.

Is he the answer? In all likelihood, probably not. The more relevant question right now is can we win with him while we're looking for the answer. Recent history says maybe so, but I guess we'll see.

It's hard to be a QB in this offense but not just because of personal in my opinion. That's a different argument.

Case isn't CLEARLY a different QB than he was before. Kirk IS. Kirk was practically a turnover machine early in his career. Turnovers that commonly turned into defensive scores. Kirk has 3 INTs in his last 8 games. He's much more confident when he's not being shuffled around for the owner's pet, and has been quite a bit more accurate than years past. Not to mention he has produced consistently . I can see progression when I see him now compared to where he was at the start of his career or even at the start of his season. I'm not hoisting him up calling him a champion quality QB, but he looks pretty good right now, minus a terrible kneel down obviously. Production of his quality would be great to have.

Is St. Louis Case that much different from Houston Case? Maybe in some respects, but I can't say I see a clear difference. Small sample size with his time here doesn't help much. I can understand sticking with him while searching for a QB. A search that should start as early as possible. A search that should start this offseason. Case is next weeks answer, that's about it. When it comes to being a future answer, that's unclear at best.

 

[jjab360]

It's hard to be a QB in this offense but not just because of personal in my opinion. That's a different argument.

Case isn't CLEARLY a different QB than he was before. Kirk IS. Kirk was practically a turnover machine early in his career. Turnovers that commonly turned into defensive scores. Kirk has 3 INTs in his last 8 games. He's much more confident when he's not being shuffled around for the owner's pet, and has been quite a bit more accurate than years past. Not to mention he has produced consistently . I can see progression when I see him now compared to where he was at the start of his career or even at the start of his season. I'm not hoisting him up calling him a champion quality QB, but he looks pretty good right now, minus a terrible kneel down obviously. Production of his quality would be great to have.

Is St. Louis Case that much different from Houston Case? Maybe in some respects, but I can't say I see a clear difference. Small sample size with his time here doesn't help much. I can understand sticking with him while searching for a QB. A search that should start as early as possible. A search that should start this offseason. Case is next weeks answer, that's about it. When it comes to being a future answer, that's unclear at best.

Yeah, he really is. Nvm the stats, I watched a lot of Houston Case and he simply couldn't pass from the pocket. The majority of his big plays came from rollouts and deep throws to Andre Johnson. When passing from the pocket he would stare down his receiver and hold onto the ball too long or try to scramble.

This year, even going back to preseason he's standing tall in the pocket, getting the ball out quick, under 2.5 seconds most of the time, and throwing it before the receiver gets open or makes their break. He's also scanning the field and looking off defenders almost every pass which is impressive considering how fast he gets the ball out.

He'll never have the size or big arm, but he has a quick release, good touch, solid accuracy, and looks really comfortable in this system right now. I don't get this blase attitude of "Oh, look at these other guys doing well too, clearly spot starter late round QBs are a dime a dozen nowadays".

 

[jrry32]

Yeah, he really is. Nvm the stats, I watched a lot of Houston Case and he simply couldn't pass from the pocket. The majority of his big plays came from rollouts and deep throws to Andre Johnson. When passing from the pocket he would stare down his receiver and hold onto the ball too long or try to scramble.

This year, even going back to preseason he's standing tall in the pocket, getting the ball out quick, under 2.5 seconds most of the time, and throwing it before the receiver gets open or makes their break. He's also scanning the field and looking off defenders almost every pass which is impressive considering how fast he gets the ball out.

He'll never have the size or big arm, but he has a quick release, good touch, solid accuracy, and looks really comfortable in this system right now. I don't get this blase attitude of "Oh, look at these other guys doing well too, clearly spot starter late round QBs are a dime a dozen nowadays".

You make good points...but at the same time, I don't think it's unrealistic to believe there are better options out there.(not even counting the draft)

 

[RAMpage28]

Yeah, he really is. Nvm the stats, I watched a lot of Houston Case and he simply couldn't pass from the pocket. The majority of his big plays came from rollouts and deep throws to Andre Johnson. When passing from the pocket he would stare down his receiver and hold onto the ball too long or try to scramble.

This year, even going back to preseason he's standing tall in the pocket, getting the ball out quick, under 2.5 seconds most of the time, and throwing it before the receiver gets open or makes their break. He's also scanning the field and looking off defenders almost every pass which is impressive considering how fast he gets the ball out.

He'll never have the size or big arm, but he has a quick release, good touch, solid accuracy, and looks really comfortable in this system right now. I don't get this blase attitude of "Oh, look at these other guys doing well too, clearly spot starter late round QBs are a dime a dozen nowadays".

Is that not what Keenum is? A spot starter late round, scratch that, undrafted dime a dozen QB? What makes Keenum any different than any of these other mediocre run through QBs? How is he different from Shaun Hill? Austin Davis? Any of those other burnouts I mentioned that had a decent run for a team once then reverted back to being layabout street agents? Hell, you just described Hill and Davis. Good releases, decent touch, not so strong arms, undersized, and solid accuracy. Sure sounds similar. The attitude I don't understand is when a mediocre player doesn't fuck up enough to cost his team a game, people get enamored and wonder if he can be leaned on on a consistent basis. Let me answer the question, they can't. The same most likely goes for Keenum. Keenum throws a couple good passes and we act like he has and will make those passes all the time. You can find a Keenum in between your couch cushions as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't mean I don't like him. I enjoy finding the pleasant surprise of change when I shift furniture around too, but I'm not going to sit around and act like I found a hundred dollar bill when I barely scraped enough together to by a can of Coke.

I don't mean to come of as an ass, but this is the reality. Keenum being significantly more than what he is now looks more like a pipe dream than an actuality. Even the idea of him maintaining this level of "just enough" on a consistent basis is hard to believe. Eventually, given enough time he will either cost us games, or continue to be pedestrian while the rest of the team has a natural dip, and his ability to muster up "just enough" will no longer be just enough. Then it's QB crisis again. Do you walk away from him or hope to improve everything else and the broken record debates kick back into high gear.

 

[jjab360]

Is that not what Keenum is? A spot starter late round, scratch that, undrafted dime a dozen QB? What makes Keenum any different than any of these other mediocre run through QBs? How is he different from Shaun Hill? Austin Davis? Any of those other burnouts I mentioned that had a decent run for a team once then reverted back to being layabout street agents? Hell, you just described Hill and Davis. Good releases, decent touch, not so strong arms, undersized, and solid accuracy. Sure sounds similar. The attitude I don't understand is when a mediocre player doesn't freak up enough to cost his team a game, people get enamored and wonder if he can be leaned on on a consistent basis. Let me answer the question, they can't. The same most likely goes for Keenum. Keenum throws a couple good passes and we act like he has and will make those passes all the time. You can find a Keenum in between your couch cushions as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't mean I don't like him. I enjoy finding the pleasant surprise of change when I shift furniture around too, but I'm not going to sit around and act like I found a hundred dollar bill when I barely scraped enough together to by a can of Coke.

I don't mean to come of as an ass, but this is the reality. Keenum being significantly more than what he is now looks more like a pipe dream than an actuality. Even the idea of him maintaining this level of "just enough" on a consistent basis is hard to believe. Eventually, given enough time he will either cost us games, or continue to be pedestrian while the rest of the team has a natural dip, and his ability to muster up "just enough" will no longer be just enough. Then it's QB crisis again. Do you walk away from him or hope to improve everything else and the broken record debates kick back into high gear.

Well, there's football analysis and then there's just ambiguous pessimism. I came for the former and left with the latter lol.

I get it though, we've been burnt before, why even get invested. Just answer me this then. Logically and not just emotionally, what evidence is there to say that a Case Keenum, like Kirk Cousins, Fitzpatrick, or Tyrod Taylor, couldn't take the next step if given a chance to win the starting job and an improved supporting cast?

 

[jjab360]

You make good points...but at the same time, I don't think it's unrealistic to believe there are better options out there.(not even counting the draft)

Probably, but sometimes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Go after that new guy of course, but don't ignore the guy who just won you four (hopefully) straight games to end the season imo.

 

[RAMpage28]

Well, there's football analysis and then there's just ambiguous pessimism. I came for the former and left with the latter lol.

I get it though, we've been burnt before, why even get invested. Just answer me this then. Logically and not just emotionally, what evidence is there to say that a Case Keenum, like Kirk Cousins, Fitzpatrick, or Tyrod Taylor, couldn't take the next step if given a chance to win the starting job and an improved supporting cast?

Track record for one. History is definitely not on Case's side. More burnout QBs than the one's you have mentioned and even the one's you have brought up don't support Keenum entirely. Comparing him to Kirk? Come on now, we already visited that one. Fitz? Fitzpatrick, much like Kyle Orton, are an exceedingly rare breed. The ever elusive "high end journeyman". QBs who found great success with very talented offensive weapons one that they even have in common with Brandon Marshall. Even then, that success was never sustained for more than a year or two. Fitz is no long term answer for the Jets and he never was. That's why he was traded for, what, a sixth round pick? That's the major issue I keep hammering on. Consistent, reliable production. Tyrod? A dynamic player to say the least, but not even a full year under his belt in an injury filled season. He could end up being a good, perhaps great QB. Any QB can on paper. It's Doubtful, but who knows. If I had to place a bet now I find it more likely him becoming the next Kaepernick. A player that shocks you with athleticism, then doesn't develop as a passer and fades. Players like him do well with a lack of tape anyway.

This isn't about emotion, this is about repeating history and then being doomed to repeat it. You want a consistently good QB? Draft one high. That's history. Recent and past. I like Keenum as a back-up and when he has to start due to injury, so be it, but don't pin your hopes on him though and expect the team to sky rocket into a perennial playoff contender. I can guarantee that when Keenum started hot in Houston, fans had the same feelings for him. They thought emotionally and had to learn the hard way that he wasn't going to lead that team to continued success.

 

[jrry32]

Well, there's football analysis and then there's just ambiguous pessimism. I came for the former and left with the latter lol.

I get it though, we've been burnt before, why even get invested. Just answer me this then. Logically and not just emotionally, what evidence is there to say that a Case Keenum, like Kirk Cousins, Fitzpatrick, or Tyrod Taylor, couldn't take the next step if given a chance to win the starting job and an improved supporting cast?

There's a few problems here. Tyrod Taylor never had a starting job in Baltimore because of Joe Flacco. Nobody knew what he could do. It's not like he's a journeyman wash out. He spent his entire career backing up a Super Bowl winning QB before going to Buffalo. Don't think he's the right guy to be tossing in.

Why can't Keenum be another Fitzpatrick? He could be. That's true. But it took Fitzpatrick a very long time to become the guy he is today...and even still, he's a flawed player. More of a bridge QB than a franchise QB. Is that what I want? No. But I can't speak for you.

Kirk Cousins is a different story. Could Keenum develop like Kirk has? It's possible but I don't think it is likely. Kirk was a pretty impressive prospect (imo) and was stuck in a truly dysfunctional situation. They brought in the perfect coach and system for Cousins. And he's thriving in it.

Could Keenum become serviceable if surrounded by talent? Probably. But if we're going to put that effort into adding talent to our offense...why not give that talent to a more talented QB?

 

[RAMpage28]

Could Keenum become serviceable if surrounded by talent? Probably. But if we're going to put that effort into adding talent to our offense...why not give that talent to a more talented QB?

I really want to put in that Jeff Goldblum "Well there it is" gif here but ROD isn't working with me.

Exactly the damn point! Why outfit the latest battle tank with a BB gun instead of a cannon?

No point in bottle-necking the whole offense because you lack talent at the position that makes all the other parts successful.

EDIT: And that part about Cannons vs BB guns isn't a slam on Keenum's arm strength. It's just a metaphor about functionality or optimization.

 

[Akrasian]

I don't think any of us would mind getting a more talented QB than Case. I think none of us know where the Rams would find him.

The QBs in the draft are not outstanding - especially where the Rams will be drafting. There are unlikely to be a lot of quality QBs in free agency. Yes, the Rams should be trying to upgrade from Keenum/Mannion, but it may not be practical in the real world. The Rams could give up a ton of draft picks to move up - and end up with the equivalent of RG3.

None of us really know what the Rams have in Mannion, btw. Is he the QB of the future? Given that he came out of a pro system, unlike many of the college prospects in this draft, he may very well be the better option than drafting somebody. We all know the failure rate of QBs from non-pro systems, after all.

 

[jjab360]

There's a few problems here. Tyrod Taylor never had a starting job in Baltimore because of Joe Flacco. Nobody knew what he could do. It's not like he's a journeyman wash out. He spent his entire career backing up a Super Bowl winning QB before going to Buffalo. Don't think he's the right guy to be tossing in.

Why can't Keenum be another Fitzpatrick? He could be. That's true. But it took Fitzpatrick a very long time to become the guy he is today...and even still, he's a flawed player. More of a bridge QB than a franchise QB. Is that what I want? No. But I can't speak for you.

Kirk Cousins is a different story. Could Keenum develop like Kirk has? It's possible but I don't think it is likely. Kirk was a pretty impressive prospect (imo) and was stuck in a truly dysfunctional situation. They brought in the perfect coach and system for Cousins. And he's thriving in it.

Could Keenum become serviceable if surrounded by talent? Probably. But if we're going to put that effort into adding talent to our offense...why not give that talent to a more talented QB?

I agree. Serviceable isn't a long term goal, but it sure is a big step up from complete incompetence. In the meantime though, we should be swinging for the fences and looking for someone with a more dynamic skillset to compete with Keenum for the starting job which is what I've been saying all along.

I just also think it's not impossible for Keenum to be a good stopgap if he continues progressing like some seem to.

 

[RAMpage28]

I don't think any of us would mind getting a more talented QB than Case. I think none of us know where the Rams would find him.

The QBs in the draft are not outstanding - especially where the Rams will be drafting. There are unlikely to be a lot of quality QBs in free agency. Yes, the Rams should be trying to upgrade from Keenum/Mannion, but it may not be practical in the real world. The Rams could give up a ton of draft picks to move up - and end up with the equivalent of RG3.

None of us really know what the Rams have in Mannion, btw. Is he the QB of the future? Given that he came out of a pro system, unlike many of the college prospects in this draft, he may very well be the better option than drafting somebody. We all know the failure rate of QBs from non-pro systems, after all.

I swear this is said every year. Whenever a QB class ain't perfect or have some surefire like Luck, everyone acts all timid around it. 2014 wasn't no prize supposedly, yet we got Bridgewater, Carr, Bortles, and who knows what the hell Jimmy Garoppolo can be. Hell, some people even thought highly of Mettenberger during his first few starts. It's looking like Bridgewater, Carr, and Bortles are all going to be staying under center for the teams that drafted them for a long time, barring any unforeseen events such as injury. One is taking his team to the playoffs, and the other two are putting up monster stats themselves. Bridge and Carr were a late first and early second. Even if we had to trade up for top five spot like the range Bortles went in, I'm not sure I would be completely against it.

 

[RAMpage28]

I agree. Serviceable isn't a long term goal, but it sure is a big step up from complete incompetence. In the meantime though, we should be swinging for the fences and looking for someone with a more dynamic skillset to compete with Keenum for the starting job which is what I've been saying all along.

I just also think it's not impossible for Keenum to be a good stopgap if he continues progressing like some seem to.

And I'm not saying that it's impossible either. Just extremely unlikely and foolish to think that him starting next year the whole way will turn out well. His progression into the QB you're thinking about when you mention guys like Fitzpatrick (and obviously you mean Fitz on a good year or stretch of time, not a bad one) doesn't seem to me to be the most likely outcome, that's all. I predict more of what we've seen in past years with this same coaching staff and mostly the same personal and QBs like this. Some decent mixed with some bad that all adds up somehow into a mediocre record and another year of wasted potential.

 

[jrry32]

I don't think any of us would mind getting a more talented QB than Case. I think none of us know where the Rams would find him.

The NFL Draft. That's one of us.

 

[Ballhawk]

The QB that you draft will either have to sit, like Mannion, or you will have to waste a year letting him learn on the job. So either way you don't win next year with a rookie.
We'll need Keenum as a bridge at the least.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Against Detroit, Fisher took Keenum completely out of the game by sitting on a lead the entire 2nd half. So referencing his "stats" in that game is irrelevant. He was near perfect in the Tampa game, and again, was limited to some extent by the "sitting on a lead" philosophy.

I think what some are missing, is the fact that no QB is going to put up video game numbers in this offense. When they throw it 30+ times in any given game, they are more than likely losing that game. That has nothing to do with who's playing the position, it's all about the system.

Referencing his stats in any of these games is not irrelevant when the point being made is that he isn't the main reason the team is winning.

On a side note, I'm guessing that Austin Davis would be a multi-millionare right about now if the defense had kept some of the leads the Rams had when he was the QB and/or Gurley was his RB.

 

[blackbart]

Against 2 top 5 defenses. Both could argue being best. As far as two of the best supporting casts... Are they? Cincy kind of, despite an inconsistent to say the least running game, missing they're best redzone target in Eifert who was challenging Gronk this year for best TE. Still, AJ and Marvin are better than what we got along with a good O-line I give you that.

Then Brock has holes in 3/5 his O-line, especially his RT. One of the worst running games in the league, the corpses of Owen Daniels and Vernon Davis at TE, DT who is under performing this year compared to the previous standard he has set, and Emmanuel Sanders who is still pretty good this year so I'll concede that.

These guys are having some of their first starts in this league on primetime in the middle of a playoff chase and are handling the opposing defenses rather well for the most part. Both are showing quite a bit more than Keenum, regardless of score.

Completely disagree with the premise that these two out performed Keenum. Both had some good plays but both had some bad ones too, in fact one ended the game on the most baisc function of the QB: get the snap from center.

And Seattle's defense in Seattle was the #1 rank D in the NFL before the game. Why can't he and the Rams get some credit for what they did?

 

[blackbart]

Well why the hell can't the Rams just go get the best player at each and every position in the NFL

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I swear this is said every year. Whenever a QB class ain't perfect or have some surefire like Luck, everyone acts all timid around it. 2014 wasn't no prize supposedly, yet we got Bridgewater, Carr, Bortles, and who knows what the hell Jimmy Garoppolo can be. Hell, some people even thought highly of Mettenberger during his first few starts. It's looking like Bridgewater, Carr, and Bortles are all going to be staying under center for the teams that drafted them for a long time, barring any unforeseen events such as injury. One is taking his team to the playoffs, and the other two are putting up monster stats themselves. Bridge and Carr were a late first and early second. Even if we had to trade up for top five spot like the range Bortles went in, I'm not sure I would be completely against it.

Great news!!!
Drafting a quarterback in the first or second is the cure all

That means when we draft a QB in the first or second we are gonna finally win a game in Seattle.... Oh wait we did win last week

Well still, if we draft a first round or second round QB we will finally have a chance to win, like the time we drafted HOF'er Sam Bradford. Man those were good times....
Oh wait that didn't turn out well...

Anyway sarcasm aside Case Keenum is gonna lead us to victory over the 49ers -- sorry everyone

Draft a QB in the first or second and you have a chance, but draft him in the third and he's rubbish - hilarious

 

[Zaphod]

Except, our D isn't always going to hold teams to 10 points the entire game. And guys are vastly underrating what the D did today as opposed to every other time we lost up the Hagville since Fisher joined the ranks.

In 2012: We gave up 20 and lost, holding a lead for only 1 quarter.
In 2013: We gave up 27, 13 1st half points.
In 2014: We gave up 20, had a 6 pt lead at half, but flubbed on O and D the rest of the wya.
In 2015: We score 9 1st half points on O, but get the Fumble 6 and the D never gives up the lead except for a garbage time TD

123.5 yards/game isn't going to get it done long term. We were getting that from Foles and going nowhere, which only got worse when he started to turn the ball over. Keenum has kept a hold of the ball, thankfully, in only turning it over once, but for ALL THE GD BELLYACHING BY "CHECK-DOWN SAMMY," Keenum is averaging under 6 yards/completion outside of his one game against TB's pee pee poor pass D.

It looks like we may have our new backup QB, but if Snisher let's Keenum's small sample size, much like Foles' small sample size, fool em twice over without even considering a rookie QB if Cook/Wentz/trade-up possibility exists, I'm going to be very annoyed.

Not discounting the foolishness of extending Foles before he played even one regular season game for us, but this is different.

So far ... he has managed to play well enough to win in our system, which is all we've wanted from a quarterback since going back to Sam Bradford's ankle injury in 2011.

I just cannot understand why we would hate on the guy's chance to prove himself as a potential backup/starter for 2016. Not because as fans we want to settle for less. In fact, quite the opposite. Because we can pretty much assume that we'll carry three quarterbacks on our roster, and if we have a guy on our roster that we can count on to be at least steady and manage the games, we don't have to worry about signing some new veteran who'll be as much a question mark as anyone else, and we can then be a little more confident about drafting another young quarterback in the draft, moving forward.

Or it at least give us options, like rolling the dice on another veteran quarterback to compete with Keenum and go after another wide receiver, or sign a decent wide receiver and acquire a MLB or DE through the draft.

In short, success breeds success.