Brian Schottenheimer

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V3

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You've seen instances of that I'm sure, but that's far from a universal thought process among an entire fan base or forum. You'd have to tell me how many people play both of those cards at the same time in order for me to think that statement has any validity whatsoever.
My point is that this whole conversation reminds me of a dog chasing its tail. We have one side saying one thing and the other saying the opposite. I've always thought it was a mixture of the two but I don't hear that get mentioned all that often. I'm personally not a fan of Schotty but I also know that he can still call some good plays only to have them botched by bad players....thus why I think it's a mixture.

I personally want to see Schotty let go in the offseason and for the Rams to draft a QB that will start fresh with the new guy. What do I know, though?
 

thirteen28

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My point is that this whole conversation reminds me of a dog chasing its tail. We have one side saying one thing and the other saying the opposite. I've always thought it was a mixture of the two but I don't hear that get mentioned all that often. I'm personally not a fan of Schotty but I also know that he can still call some good plays only to have them botched by bad players....thus why I think it's a mixture.

I personally want to see Schotty let go in the offseason and for the Rams to draft a QB that will start fresh with the new guy. What do I know, though?
I tried to tackle both sides of the coin earlier in the thread. And yeah, like you, I'd like to see an upgrade at the OC spot next offseason.
 

Angry Ram

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I wasn't going around blaming the others in the past I blame this one with more talent around him. and it's not only rams fans that notice his play calling. I remember a furious Jackson not given a chance to pound the ball on the goal line and instead kept tossing it up over and over

I remember that too, but it was with Pat Shurmer back in 2010. Sunday Night Football.

My point still stands; fans have been blaming the OC for almost a decade. Nothing changes.
 

209RamsFan

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Schott is partially to blame, but so were the players caught Holding, facemask penalties, dropping the ball, poor blocking schemes, getting beat off the snap, horrible tackling,etc,beer guy delivering hot beer, hot dog dude not putting mustard on dog properly, popcorn not popping, etc..:( there is ENOUGH blame to go around
 

yrba1

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It's easy to blame the offensive coordinator hours after a loss but now that things have cooled down, I see it more along the lines of execution.
However, I question his ability to adjust an offense to the players' strengths (see Tavon at the halfback spot running down the middle) He seems more like a guy who needs players to fit his system to be truly effective. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 

AnarchyRam

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Holy smokes, you're going to seriously compare Walton's performance to Shottenheimer's?

Well, I thought Walton was terrible and I think Schotty's also terrible. He's been terrible for his entire NFL career hasn't he?
 

AnarchyRam

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I remember that too, but it was with Pat Shurmer back in 2010. Sunday Night Football.

My point still stands; fans have been blaming the OC for almost a decade. Nothing changes.

I think it's because great playcallers are rare gems and incredibly difficult to find.
 

Angry Ram

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I think it's because great playcallers are rare gems and incredibly difficult to find.

No, what's rare is finding a team that has consistent coaches and coaching styles in place.

That's b/c fans and media alike can be so knee-jerk and demand change the moment after a loss, there won't ever be any consistency.
 

jrry32

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Well, I thought Walton was terrible and I think Schotty's also terrible. I can't really compare turds, but they both stink imo.

He's been terrible for his entire NFL career hasn't he?

Nope. Not at all, actually.
Year PPG Ranking Starting QB
2004: 17th Pennington
2005: 29th Bollinger/Testeverde/Pennington
2006: 18th Pennington
2007: 25th Clemens/Pennington
2008: 9th Favre
2009: 17th Sanchez
2010: 13th Sanchez
2011: 13th Sanchez

2012: 28th Sanchez
2013: 29th Smith

That's the last decade.

Schotty's tenure with the Jets was 2006 to 2011. That's six years. In those six years, their average offensive ranking was 16th. The other four years without Schotty, the Jets ranked on average 26th. Schotty isn't Mike Martz but he's also not the fool he's made out to be. The guy is a solid OC. Not great, not bad. As I said before, the Alex Smith of OCs. You could do better but you could do worse.

However, I think it's worth mentioning that the guy managed to get back to back years of the #13 ranking in the NFL in PPG with MARK SANCHEZ at QB. And with Favre, before his injury(tore his biceps tendon on his throwing arm and tried to play through it), the Jets were averaging 29.4 PPG(through 11 games). The first place team in the NFL during the 2008 season, New Orleans, averaged 28.9 PPG. So if Favre doesn't suffer the injury, it's very possible the Jets finish with the #1 or #2 offense in the NFL that year.

So no, Schotty hasn't been terrible for his entire career. In fact, one would say he did a pretty good job given his circumstances.
 

Dxmissile

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I am not a huge fan of Schotty personally. He does have his moments though that highly impress me. My discourse mainly is due to the times he just calls some bad plays(rush the entire way down the field then calls for a passing play with no rb in the backfield at goaline) and his inability to effectively use Austin.

But regardless of any of that, if the players can't execute worth a darn, it doesnt matter who is calling the plays or what plays are called. The players need to step up. Schottys system is not a bad system, the players are just failing to execute the plays properly so far.

Based off all of that I have to wonder two things:

1. Does he base his playbook and playcalls off of our personel? Does he tailor the offense to the players abilities or does he try to make the players fit into his system?

2. Why are the players not executing the plays well enough so far and just not playing good? Those penalties are killing us.

Maybe it was rust and youth that hindered out offense in week one. I am expecting a big turn a round this week.
I really think he makes players fit into his system because he don't know how to adjust. His game plan is exactly the same from one half to the next even when the offense is struggling to implement that game plan. His adjustments are just not there that's the main problem with schotty he doesn't know how to handle adversity when the run game is shut down
 

Dxmissile

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Nope. Not at all, actually.
Year PPG Ranking Starting QB
2004: 17th Pennington
2005: 29th Bollinger/Testeverde/Pennington
2006: 18th Pennington
2007: 25th Clemens/Pennington
2008: 9th Favre
2009: 17th Sanchez
2010: 13th Sanchez
2011: 13th Sanchez

2012: 28th Sanchez
2013: 29th Smith

That's the last decade.

Schotty's tenure with the Jets was 2006 to 2011. That's six years. In those six years, their average offensive ranking was 16th. The other four years without Schotty, the Jets ranked on average 26th. Schotty isn't Mike Martz but he's also not the fool he's made out to be. The guy is a solid OC. Not great, not bad. As I said before, the Alex Smith of OCs. You could do better but you could do worse.

However, I think it's worth mentioning that the guy managed to get back to back years of the #13 ranking in the NFL in PPG with MARK SANCHEZ at QB. And with Favre, before his injury(tore his biceps tendon on his throwing arm and tried to play through it), the Jets were averaging 29.4 PPG(through 11 games). The first place team in the NFL during the 2008 season, New Orleans, averaged 28.9 PPG. So if Favre doesn't suffer the injury, it's very possible the Jets finish with the #1 or #2 offense in the NFL that year.

So no, Schotty hasn't been terrible for his entire career. In fact, one would say he did a pretty good job given his circumstances.
His tenure with the jets also coincided with Ladamain Tomlinson as well . Leading the league in rushing and also a good defense. Sanchez wasn't the key he was a game manager. He did it very well but it goes back to what I was saying he can get the job done when the running attack is going and that's why Fisher hired him because he make good calls based off of the running game
 

Speeps

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Nope. Not at all, actually.
Year PPG Ranking Starting QB
2004: 17th Pennington
2005: 29th Bollinger/Testeverde/Pennington
2006: 18th Pennington
2007: 25th Clemens/Pennington
2008: 9th Favre
2009: 17th Sanchez
2010: 13th Sanchez
2011: 13th Sanchez

2012: 28th Sanchez
2013: 29th Smith

That's the last decade.

Schotty's tenure with the Jets was 2006 to 2011. That's six years. In those six years, their average offensive ranking was 16th. The other four years without Schotty, the Jets ranked on average 26th. Schotty isn't Mike Martz but he's also not the fool he's made out to be. The guy is a solid OC. Not great, not bad. As I said before, the Alex Smith of OCs. You could do better but you could do worse.

However, I think it's worth mentioning that the guy managed to get back to back years of the #13 ranking in the NFL in PPG with MARK SANCHEZ at QB. And with Favre, before his injury(tore his biceps tendon on his throwing arm and tried to play through it), the Jets were averaging 29.4 PPG(through 11 games). The first place team in the NFL during the 2008 season, New Orleans, averaged 28.9 PPG. So if Favre doesn't suffer the injury, it's very possible the Jets finish with the #1 or #2 offense in the NFL that year.

So no, Schotty hasn't been terrible for his entire career. In fact, one would say he did a pretty good job given his circumstances.
And in a what have you done for me lately league, what has Schotty done?
 

jrry32

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His tenure with the jets also coincided with Ladamain Tomlinson as well . Leading the league in rushing and also a good defense. Sanchez wasn't the key he was a game manager. He did it very well but it goes back to what I was saying he can get the job done when the running attack is going and that's why Fisher hired him because he make good calls based off of the running game

So...? LaDainian was well past his prime by the time he got to New York. Guy was an average HB at best and quickly fell off from that.

Sanchez didn't do that well. The offense succeeded despite Sanchez. The fact that Schotty made Sanchez look presentable definitely earns him some respect from me.

And in a what have you done for me lately league, what has Schotty done?

Helped Sam progress significantly as a passer, helped the Rams jump nearly 10 PPG from 2011 to 2013 and made due with an offense that lacked veteran talent.

The OC is always the scapegoat. If a play isn't executed right by the players, doesn't matter how well it was drawn up.
 

BatteringRambo

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Maybe we will all see those quick slants and every other imaginable play but not until Bordeau, Fisher and Schotty light an insanely big fire up our offensive lines ass! I enjoyed the quote by Rodger Saffold recently. So maybe we see positive signs this Sunday afternoon.
 

Speeps

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So...? LaDainian was well past his prime by the time he got to New York. Guy was an average HB at best and quickly fell off from that.

Sanchez didn't do that well. The offense succeeded despite Sanchez. The fact that Schotty made Sanchez look presentable definitely earns him some respect from me.



Helped Sam progress significantly as a passer, helped the Rams jump nearly 10 PPG from 2011 to 2013 and made due with an offense that lacked veteran talent.

The OC is always the scapegoat. If a play isn't executed right by the players, doesn't matter how well it was drawn up.
Part of a coaches job is to put players in a position to succeed. I've watched every Rams game since the new regime, and I question whether Schotty knows how to utilize his talent.

Sam has improved yes, but is that truly the product of Schotty? Could it be because he has the luxury of having a QB coach that wasn't provided to him under the Spags regime?

We should also note that a lot of the offensive production that we saw during Rams blowouts (which subsequently lead to the jump in ppg), was in large part a product of the defensive play. The defense was spectacular in putting the offense in great positions to succeed...and at times scoring themselves.

I'm not entirely blaming Schotty for the mess that is our offense, but I would be naive to think that he is not part of the problem. There is very little creativity to what we're doing, and I fully believe that we aren't maximizing our offensive players abilities. This offense is not void of talent.
 

fearsomefour

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His tenure with the jets also coincided with Ladamain Tomlinson as well . Leading the league in rushing and also a good defense. Sanchez wasn't the key he was a game manager. He did it very well but it goes back to what I was saying he can get the job done when the running attack is going and that's why Fisher hired him because he make good calls based off of the running game
I fair assessment. All OCs need guys that fit what they do. There is some wiggle room of course, but, there is a reason DCs will run "their" system....lets say a 3/4 or a 4/3, a zone scheme or a man scheme. Most coaches are good at implementing what they do and know inside and out.
When SF hired Martz it was because they were desperate to generate some quick O and points. The players there did not really match what his system was and the results were mixed.
 

jrry32

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Part of a coaches job is to put players in a position to succeed. I've watched every Rams game since the new regime, and I question whether Schotty knows how to utilize his talent.

I don't. I question his utilization of Tavon but the guy can utilize talent. He's proven as much. Now, I do question if he can utilize Tavon. It's frustrating. But there might just be reasons we don't know about hindering Tavon.

Kind of like with Quick. It seems like the light bulb has gone on for Quick. It might not have come on for Tavon yet. We don't know. We're not in the meeting rooms. But I am frustrated with his utilization of Tavon.

Sam has improved yes, but is that truly the product of Schotty? Could it be because he has the luxury of having a QB coach that wasn't provided to him under the Spags regime?

Seems like a convenient way of circumventing giving Schotty credit. I'm sure Cignetti has had a hand in it but Schotty's origins are from being a QB Coach. I'm sure he's had a rather large hand in it too.

Keep in mind if we're going to go that route and credit the QB Coach, it's worth remembering that Schotty was the QB Coach for San Diego when Drew Brees and Philip Rivers were developed.

We should also note that a lot of the offensive production that we saw during Rams blowouts (which subsequently lead to the jump in ppg), was in large part a product of the defensive play. The defense was spectacular in putting the offense in great positions to succeed...and at times scoring themselves.

We ended with the same ranking in overall PPG, score percentage(% of offensive drives resulting in a score), and average points scored per drive in 2013. Basically, our offensive output per drive matched up to our overall PPG ranking so the defensive and special teams scores in the end didn't change things relative to the rest of the teams in the NFL.

Additionally, we ranked 10th in least turnovers on offense in 2013 and 10th in most turnovers forced on defense. So we actually were equally good(in terms of rank) at both not turning the ball over AND forcing turnovers.

So, in the end, I don't think the defense can really be used to take away from the strides the offense made.

I'm not entirely blaming Schotty for the mess that is our offense, but I would be naive to think that he is not part of the problem. There is very little creativity to what we're doing, and I fully believe that we aren't maximizing our offensive players abilities. This offense is not void of talent.

Offense doesn't have to be void of talent. When you're starting backup QBs, you already have one arm tied behind your back. Add in the OL not executing on Sunday and things are going to be a disaster.

Does Schotty not accept blame? No. He has blame to accept. But blame doesn't mean anything to me. It's just looking for a target after a bad performance where there was plenty of blame to go around. Don't know a guy who doesn't deserve blame on offense from Sunday except for the man with Quick on his jersey.

As far as creativity goes, it's overrated. Maximizing players abilities is a phrase that doesn't mean much to me. Yes, I want an OC that does that but it's an easy thing to claim when the offense isn't playing well. And most people really can't elaborate beyond the phrase or generalities(more deep passes, less check-downs, screens, etc.).

I don't know many fan-bases that like their OC. He seems like the most convenient scapegoat. When things aren't going well, people just assume it's the play-calling and play design. When the reality often is more tied in with player executing their assignments. Is that part of the OC's job? Yes. But it's also the players' jobs. One of the OCs that I think highly of, Greg Roman, is hated by 49er fans.

As I said, OCs just aren't popular. Whereas, DCs are generally less hated. Why? Because it's easier to tell on defense which guy failed to execute an assignment and is to blame. And defensive schemes are more complicated so most fans can't offer up opinions for how they believe it should be fixed.

Although, there are plenty of unpopular DCs too.

When I get a chance to review the game, hopefully, I'll be able to post a few plays and elaborate on how failed plays may seem to lack creativity or poorly designed based on the end results but when looked at for what they're supposed to be, the opposite is actually true and the play's failure is based on a failed assignment or two when it was setting up to be a major gain.
 

Penguin.

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He isn't terrible, but I wouldn't say he is good. I honestly think some people in here can call a game better than him.
 

jrry32

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He isn't terrible, but I wouldn't say he is good. I honestly think some people in here can call a game better than him.

I doubt any of the people in here could understand his playbook, much less call a NFL game. I don't think people quite understand how complicated the verbiage, concepts, and schemes are at the NFL level.