Brian Schottenheimer

[-X-]

I doubt any of the people in here could understand his playbook, much less call a NFL game. I don't think people quite understand how complicated the verbiage, concepts, and schemes are at the NFL level.

Yah-huh. I make my own playbooks on Madden and they kick all kinds of ass.

Seriously though, people should actually read one to see what it entails.

http://www.footballxos.com/download/offense/pro-offense/2001-St-Louis-Rams-Mike-Martz-Offense.pdf
http://www.footballxos.com/download...6-Washington-Redskins-Offense-Norv-Turner.pdf

 

[Zaphod]

Well, I thought Walton was terrible and I think Schotty's also terrible. He's been terrible for his entire NFL career hasn't he?

I do not share your sentiment, no.

 

[PeteMD]

Yah-huh. I make my own playbooks on Madden and they kick all kinds of ass.

Seriously though, people should actually read one to see what it entails.

http://www.footballxos.com/download/offense/pro-offense/2001-St-Louis-Rams-Mike-Martz-Offense.pdf
http://www.footballxos.com/download...6-Washington-Redskins-Offense-Norv-Turner.pdf

Dont know if this article was posted before or not. A little inside how they scored 3 TDs. Nothing fancy - but they didnt make stupid mistakes, they ran the plays perfectly and scored.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/A-look-inside-the-Jets-offensive-playbook.html

"One final thought… These aren’t complex schemes, and if you take away the formation alignment on the Hi-Lo concept, we are looking at basic concepts in every NFL playbook."

I mainly blame the process of execution last sunday for the ineffective offense. We had some good plays that were nullified because of dumb penalties.
Sunday will be really interesting.. I am curious if they are able to minimize mistakes and execute on offense.

Pete

 

[Dxmissile]

I don't. I question his utilization of Tavon but the guy can utilize talent. He's proven as much. Now, I do question if he can utilize Tavon. It's frustrating. But there might just be reasons we don't know about hindering Tavon.

Kind of like with Quick. It seems like the light bulb has gone on for Quick. It might not have come on for Tavon yet. We don't know. We're not in the meeting rooms. But I am frustrated with his utilization of Tavon.



Seems like a convenient way of circumventing giving Schotty credit. I'm sure Cignetti has had a hand in it but Schotty's origins are from being a QB Coach. I'm sure he's had a rather large hand in it too.

Keep in mind if we're going to go that route and credit the QB Coach, it's worth remembering that Schotty was the QB Coach for San Diego when Drew Brees and Philip Rivers were developed.



We ended with the same ranking in overall PPG, score percentage(% of offensive drives resulting in a score), and average points scored per drive in 2013. Basically, our offensive output per drive matched up to our overall PPG ranking so the defensive and special teams scores in the end didn't change things relative to the rest of the teams in the NFL.

Additionally, we ranked 10th in least turnovers on offense in 2013 and 10th in most turnovers forced on defense. So we actually were equally good(in terms of rank) at both not turning the ball over AND forcing turnovers.

So, in the end, I don't think the defense can really be used to take away from the strides the offense made.



Offense doesn't have to be void of talent. When you're starting backup QBs, you already have one arm tied behind your back. Add in the OL not executing on Sunday and things are going to be a disaster.

Does Schotty not accept blame? No. He has blame to accept. But blame doesn't mean anything to me. It's just looking for a target after a bad performance where there was plenty of blame to go around. Don't know a guy who doesn't deserve blame on offense from Sunday except for the man with Quick on his jersey.

As far as creativity goes, it's overrated. Maximizing players abilities is a phrase that doesn't mean much to me. Yes, I want an OC that does that but it's an easy thing to claim when the offense isn't playing well. And most people really can't elaborate beyond the phrase or generalities(more deep passes, less check-downs, screens, etc.).

I don't know many fan-bases that like their OC. He seems like the most convenient scapegoat. When things aren't going well, people just assume it's the play-calling and play design. When the reality often is more tied in with player executing their assignments. Is that part of the OC's job? Yes. But it's also the players' jobs. One of the OCs that I think highly of, Greg Roman, is hated by 49er fans.

As I said, OCs just aren't popular. Whereas, DCs are generally less hated. Why? Because it's easier to tell on defense which guy failed to execute an assignment and is to blame. And defensive schemes are more complicated so most fans can't offer up opinions for how they believe it should be fixed.

Although, there are plenty of unpopular DCs too.

When I get a chance to review the game, hopefully, I'll be able to post a few plays and elaborate on how failed plays may seem to lack creativity or poorly designed based on the end results but when looked at for what they're supposed to be, the opposite is actually true and the play's failure is based on a failed assignment or two when it was setting up to be a major gain.

I don't see how you can say creativity is overrated especially in today's NFL. All you have to do is look at the Eagles look at the Sea hawks and the Vikings. With the rule changes on defense as an offense why not take advantage of those rules. When we say creativity it's just not play call it's also tempo.this team plays in one speed no matter the score. He runs the same plays at least 3 times a game (Harkey package). I'm fine with him being a play action OC, what's not fine is his adjustments are not. That's the main problem. He shows no urgency and he looks disinterested on the sideline.if you have a young offense and struggling oline the best thing you can do is go no huddle ut slows down the pass rush and it put these young guys in a position they are comfortable with. It's not a part of our game plan though until we are down by 20

 

[A320driver]

I don't see how you can say creativity is overrated especially in today's NFL. All you have to do is look at the Eagles look at the Sea hawks and the Vikings. With the rule changes on defense as an offense why not take advantage of those rules. When we say creativity it's just not play call it's also tempo.this team plays in one speed no matter the score. He runs the same plays at least 3 times a game (Harkey package). I'm fine with him being a play action OC, what's not fine is his adjustments are not. That's the main problem. He shows no urgency and he looks disinterested on the sideline.if you have a young offense and struggling oline the best thing you can do is go no huddle ut slows down the pass rush and it put these young guys in a position they are comfortable with. It's not a part of our game plan though until we are down by 20

Haha!...You kill your own theory by telling us about how we can improve with "a no huddle" ?
...whose the QB that your getting to run it ?
Last time I checked Brady..Manning..ETAL are already taken in my FF league
In all fairness, the guys we have are not even able to read the opposing defense fast enough, or correctly on a continuing basis, and they are inept at moving up into the pocket in order to get more time not withstanding making the throws from the POR set point in the called protection!
We are way ahead of the curve here

 

[A320driver]

The only solution is getting back to the whole mindset of pounding the rock !
We have to establish the run game against Tampa pure and simple, or we will be back in the one dimensional
Offense letting the other teams tee off on our QB!...It wouldn't hurt to have Hill back in the mix sooner than later either .

 

[Dxmissile]

Haha!...You kill your own theory by telling us about how we can improve with "a no huddle" ?
...whose the QB that your getting to run it ?
Last time I checked Brady..Manning..ETAL are already taken in my FF league
In all fairness, the guys we have are not even able to read the opposing defense fast enough, or correctly on a continuing basis, and they are inept at moving up into the pocket in order to get more time not withstanding making the throws from the POR set point in the called protection!
We are way ahead of the curve here

It's a lot you can do off of no huddle it works just like a quick passing game does it neutralize the defenses pass rush. That Extra Time Can Give Our wrs Room To Get Open AND More Time For The QB to get the ball out. The point is to keep the defense on their heels. I'm not asking them to change their playbook just speed up their play

 

[A320driver]

It's a lot you can do off of no huddle it works just like a quick passing game does it neutralize the defenses pass rush. That Extra Time Can Give Our wrs Room To Get Open AND More Time For The QB to get the ball out. The point is to keep the defense on their heels. I'm not asking them to change their playbook just speed up their play

Hey ! I am agreeing with you!
Like I said however, who are we gonna get to run it ?

 

[Thordaddy]

Dont know if this article was posted before or not. A little inside how they scored 3 TDs. Nothing fancy - but they didnt make stupid mistakes, they ran the plays perfectly and scored.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/A-look-inside-the-Jets-offensive-playbook.html

"One final thought… These aren’t complex schemes, and if you take away the formation alignment on the Hi-Lo concept, we are looking at basic concepts in every NFL playbook."

I mainly blame the process of execution last sunday for the ineffective offense. We had some good plays that were nullified because of dumb penalties.
Sunday will be really interesting.. I am curious if they are able to minimize mistakes and execute on offense.

Pete

FWIW the guy the trophy was named after was right and continues to be,"you block and tackle better you win" I coached wrestling for years and I could teach a hundred different take downs but if they didn't do them right all they really could do is recognize them ,but if they did two or three perfectly they were nearly unstoppable.
SO I'm totally witcha imagination ain't worth nuthin if you don't execute, all you get is "wow that was a great idea ,too bad it didn't work .

As far as Sunday goes ,McCown looked like McClown in some highlight clips I saw ,if we have Hill it'll be two career backups against each other ,one who caught lightning last year played well but ain't lookin so good right now

 

[blue4]

The fact is that Fisher and Schotty are responsible for the offense. I don't care if the offense is plodding and unproductive because of the players or the game plan. These are their players, brought here by them and Snead. They're the ones responsible. If you were a project manager in your 3rd year, and after being given everything you asked for still blamed your lack of success on your team, would that fly? I don't think it would. Of course not everything going on is his fault. But who are you going to hold accountable for a department's poor performance if not the dept head? I'm not trying to say he should be fired or anything, I'm just trying to point out that the criticism isn't sometimes fair, it isn't unfair either. He has called some good games, and he also has been guilty of calling some truly awful ones.
In some ways I think it would be a cop out to blame the players. Again, it's year 3, after some of the most favorable drafting conditions in our history. Saying the players aren't good enough may be true, but that comes back to them. Saying the game plan can't be called because of execution may be true, but whose fault is that if not the coaches? Walton rightly was fired for his bad game calling and poor execution by players, and his unit outperformed Schotty's.

I guess my long winded point is that holding the OC accountable for the YEAR TO YEAR state of the offense is not unreasonable.

 

[-X-]

The fact is that Fisher and Schotty are responsible for the offense. I don't care if the offense is plodding and unproductive because of the players or the game plan. These are their players, brought here by them and Snead. They're the ones responsible. If you were a project manager in your 3rd year, and after being given everything you asked for still blamed your lack of success on your team, would that fly? I don't think it would. Of course not everything going on is his fault. But who are you going to hold accountable for a department's poor performance if not the dept head? I'm not trying to say he should be fired or anything, I'm just trying to point out that the criticism isn't sometimes fair, it isn't unfair either. He has called some good games, and he also has been guilty of calling some truly awful ones.
In some ways I think it would be a cop out to blame the players. Again, it's year 3, after some of the most favorable drafting conditions in our history. Saying the players aren't good enough may be true, but that comes back to them. Saying the game plan can't be called because of execution may be true, but whose fault is that if not the coaches? Walton rightly was fired for his bad game calling and poor execution by players, and his unit outperformed Schotty's.

I guess my long winded point is that holding the OC accountable for the YEAR TO YEAR state of the offense is not unreasonable.

Those are some good points, but I don't think anyone is calling the players bad, in as much as they're suggesting their inexperience is causing stupid mistakes and lapses in execution. But you're right. It is the coaches' jobs to get them ready.

Do I think these guys aren't repping these plays in practice or teaching technique / correcting mistakes? Not for a minute. My new suspicion is that there are too many plays in the playbook that are designed to do the same exact thing, only with variations in formation and execution. Just my suspicion, and in no way can I prove it.

 

[CoachO]

FWIW the guy the trophy was named after was right and continues to be,"you block and tackle better you win" I coached wrestling for years and I could teach a hundred different take downs but if they didn't do them right all they really could do is recognize them ,but if they did two or three perfectly they were nearly unstoppable.
SO I'm totally witcha imagination ain't worth nuthin if you don't execute, all you get is "wow that was a great idea ,too bad it didn't work .

As far as Sunday goes ,McCown looked like McClown in some highlight clips I saw ,if we have Hill it'll be two career backups against each other ,one who caught lightning last year played well but ain't lookin so good right now

To echo this, it seems the most successful teams are also the ones who run some of the most basic stuff. They just execute it to perfection most of the time.

I get that this is an example of the college game, but it seems to me the offense Auburn runs is about as basic in terms of what they do as it gets. They literally run about 5 plays on offense. They just run those 5 plays to perfection and they execute it to the point that teams know what is coming, and still cannot stop it.

 

[Thordaddy]

To echo this, it seems the most successful teams are also the ones who run some of the most basic stuff. They just execute it to perfection most of the time.

I get that this is an example of the college game, but it seems to me the offense Auburn runs is about as basic in terms of what they do as it gets. They literally run about 5 plays on offense. They just run those 5 plays to perfection and they execute it to the point that teams know what is coming, and still cannot stop it.

Yeah your right and college with the "graduation problem" is best served by that simplicity,I don't have a thing against creativity ,there can't be many people who are bigger Martz fans than I, but his glory years included veteran teams and some players Bruce and Faulk who were among the smartest players anywhere , this team is so young MM might not be able to have results commensurate with GSOT for a while because of the "execution problem".
It's always convenient to blame play calling when an offense doesn't slay especially since ALL OUR plays work in our minds ,In my mind I have a 140 QBR,rush for 2K every year , have 25 sacks and 150 tackles for a loss on my roster,I have YET to see one OC whose play calling wasn't questioned and I've been watching pro ball since the mid 1950's.
My problem with Shotty would be the same as with McDaniels ,if they aint getting what your teaching ,you gotta change it or find new ways to teach it and stay patient yourself if your gonna put Tavon in the backfield give him most of the possession so he can get some feel , IMO if TA can throw the halfback option it'd catch some people with their pants around their ankles, it's a damned simple play and would freeze linebackers when he faked it

 

[LesBaker]

Those are some good points, but I don't think anyone is calling the players bad, in as much as they're suggesting their inexperience is causing stupid mistakes and lapses in execution. But you're right. It is the coaches' jobs to get them ready.

Do I think these guys aren't repping these plays in practice or teaching technique / correcting mistakes? Not for a minute. My new suspicion is that there are too many plays in the playbook that are designed to do the same exact thing, only with variations in formation and execution. Just my suspicion, and in no way can I prove it.

Martz had plays that had the same end result but there was different things leading up to that and I think you're potentially on to something here. With Martz there were formations that started out one way but then there was so much motion and shifting it would look like something different when it really wasn't. Maybe this O is shooting itself in the foot because of the same type of thing.

I think both the players and OC are culpable in the problems we see. My hope is that it irons itself out in practice this week and we don't have to scratch our heads and wonder why they aren't scoring.

And we need Hill back under center ASAP.

 

[PhxRam]

To echo this, it seems the most successful teams are also the ones who run some of the most basic stuff. They just execute it to perfection most of the time.

I get that this is an example of the college game, but it seems to me the offense Auburn runs is about as basic in terms of what they do as it gets. They literally run about 5 plays on offense. They just run those 5 plays to perfection and they execute it to the point that teams know what is coming, and still cannot stop it.

In high school our playbook was quite limited (25-30 plays) but we had two plays (57/58 sweep) that we ran endlessly in games and in practice. Playing against us was like playing against Chicago in the original Tecmo Bowl. We ran the same four plays almost all game long and even if you correctly guessed the playcall, most times it resulted in positive yardage because it was executed so well.

 

[A320driver]

To echo this, it seems the most successful teams are also the ones who run some of the most basic stuff. They just execute it to perfection most of the time.

I get that this is an example of the college game, but it seems to me the offense Auburn runs is about as basic in terms of what they do as it gets. They literally run about 5 plays on offense. They just run those 5 plays to perfection and they execute it to the point that teams know what is coming, and still cannot stop it.

Hate to beat a dead horse, but exactly why Robinson, and mason struggle to get on the field

 

[jrry32]

I don't see how you can say creativity is overrated especially in today's NFL. All you have to do is look at the Eagles look at the Sea hawks and the Vikings.

The Seahawks aren't a creative team on offense or defense. The Eagles are creative. However, the Broncos aren't. The Vikings have played one game under Turner.

Creativity is underrated. The offense Manning has run throughout his career isn't based on creativity, it's based on execution.

With the rule changes on defense as an offense why not take advantage of those rules. When we say creativity it's just not play call it's also tempo.this team plays in one speed no matter the score.

We're not a tempo team and we don't have a QB that warrants running a tempo offense with Sam on IR.

He runs the same plays at least 3 times a game (Harkey package). I'm fine with him being a play action OC, what's not fine is his adjustments are not. That's the main problem. He shows no urgency and he looks disinterested on the sideline.if you have a young offense and struggling oline the best thing you can do is go no huddle ut slows down the pass rush and it put these young guys in a position they are comfortable with. It's not a part of our game plan though until we are down by 20

How is going no huddle going to help your OL when they're getting beat without blitzing? The best thing you can do to help the OL is establish a running game. But that doesn't work when the OL isn't run blocking effectively either. And going no huddle with your third string QB just spells disaster especially for your defense who's going to be on the field that much faster.

The faster you move, the better you have to be at sustaining drives.

 

[Dxmissile]

Hey ! I am agreeing with you!
Like I said however, who are we gonna get to run it ?

Lol idk but somebody have to be competent enough to do it. I hope

 

[Dxmissile]

The Seahawks aren't a creative team on offense or defense. The Eagles are creative. However, the Broncos aren't. The Vikings have played one game under Turner.

Creativity is underrated. The offense Manning has run throughout his career isn't based on creativity, it's based on execution.



We're not a tempo team and we don't have a QB that warrants running a tempo offense with Sam on IR.



How is going no huddle going to help your OL when they're getting beat without blitzing? The best thing you can do to help the OL is establish a running game. But that doesn't work when the OL isn't run blocking effectively either. And going no huddle with your third string QB just spells disaster especially for your defense who's going to be on the field that much faster.

The faster you move, the better you have to be at sustaining drives.

Not allowing substitutions getting the defense off balance not letting them get set. The oline isn't void of talent just need to give them a quickstart

 

[GreeneCounty]

Hate to beat a dead horse, but exactly why Robinson, and mason struggle to get on the field

Man those picks need to contribute this year sometime or that deal with Deadskins was a joke.