Book: Bernie Kosar's Slurred Speech Resulted from Painkillers Browns Gave Him

[Boffo97]

I'm still a bit surprised at the lengths some fans will take homerism. Bernie didn't say anything that I didn't agree with. Clemens and the WR's all sucked and have sucked for a while. No reason to crucify the guy for telling it like it is. I'd much rather hear some real opinions from a color-announcer, even if I don't agree with them, than say, what Brian Billick offers.

Ugh. Don't do the "I disagree with you, so you're homers" thing. We're better than that here.

It's simply not the job of an announcer to declare that a team or player sucks. Even if it was the Rams color guy declaring that the other team's guys sucked, it'd still be unprofessional.

 

[Tron]

This place is starting to exhibit real inolerance and some ugliness. Oxycontin is pretty serious stuff, and would certainly explain some of Bernie's troubles.

The guy was a great QB.... people here should show some respect.

Just because he was a good football player does not mean he deserves respect IMO.

I've been on Oxys on and off for about 6 months. It is a hell of a drug, cant argue that. I made sure not fall in love with it, and if I had, it would of been my fault, not the doctors for prescribing it to me.

He needs to own up and takes some responsibility for himself and get some help. And until he stops blaming everyone else that wont happen.

It seems now a days the "in thing" to do is for players to blame the NFL for whatever mistakes they made and any problems with health. Not saying that the NFL hasnt had a hand in many of it, but its getting old hearing all these players blaming the NFL and pleading ignorance.

 

[moklerman]

Ugh. Don't do the "I disagree with you, so you're homers" thing. We're better than that here.

It's simply not the job of an announcer to declare that a team or player sucks. Even if it was the Rams color guy declaring that the other team's guys sucked, it'd still be unprofessional.

You're not really trying to say that everyone agreed with what Kosar said and just didn't appreciate his lack of "professionalism", are you?

Many fans were pissed because he bad-mouthed Rams players. Regardless of whether the criticism was warranted.

As far as I'm concerned, he did his job and added some "color" to the broadcast. Especially a boring preseason game that no one really cares about. For a local, color guy, that's fine by me.

Kosar hasn't been vilified by Rams fans because of etiquette.

 

[moklerman]

Just because he was a good football player does not mean he deserves respect IMO.

I've been on Oxys on and off for about 6 months. It is a hell of a drug, cant argue that. I made sure not fall in love with it, and if I had, it would of been my fault, not the doctors for prescribing it to me.

He needs to own up and takes some responsibility for himself and get some help. And until he stops blaming everyone else that wont happen.

It seems now a days the "in thing" to do is for players to blame the NFL for whatever mistakes they made and any problems with health. Not saying that the NFL hasnt had a hand in many of it, but its getting old hearing all these players blaming the NFL and pleading ignorance.

There aren't any Kosar quotes in the OP. You sure Kosar's blaming the NFL?

 

[Boffo97]

You're not really trying to say that everyone agreed with what Kosar said and just didn't appreciate his lack of "professionalism", are you?

Many fans were pissed because he bad-mouthed Rams players. Regardless of whether the criticism was warranted.

As far as I'm concerned, he did his job and added some "color" to the broadcast. Especially a boring preseason game that no one really cares about. For a local, color guy, that's fine by me.

Kosar hasn't been vilified by Rams fans because of etiquette.

No, I'm not saying everyone agreed with what Kosar said. I'm saying what pissed people off was his lack of professonalism. That kind of criticism is fine on an Internet message board, but it's not appropriate for a professional football broadcast when you're representing the team.

Do you really think the Browns fired him over disagreeing with those opinions?

 

[moklerman]

No, I'm not saying everyone agreed with what Kosar said. I'm saying what pissed people off was his lack of professonalism. That kind of criticism is fine on an Internet message board, but it's not appropriate for a professional football broadcast when you're representing the team.

Do you really think the Browns fired him over disagreeing with those opinions?

I have no idea why the Browns actually fired him. Do you think they're an organization to point to when examining the way things should be done? They're pretty dysfunctional from top to bottom so Kosar's firing really isn't indicative of anything.

If anything, it's yet another indictment on today's ridiculously PC world we live in. Okay, Kosar was critical of a backup player on the opposing team. Does he really deserve to be fired for that? Especially when he was doing a Browns local broadcast and not a national one? Teams usually want homers on their local broadcasts.

 

[Boffo97]

I have no idea why the Browns actually fired him. Do you think they're an organization to point to when examining the way things should be done? They're pretty dysfunctional from top to bottom so Kosar's firing really isn't indicative of anything.

If anything, it's yet another indictment on today's ridiculously PC world we live in. Okay, Kosar was critical of a backup player on the opposing team. Does he really deserve to be fired for that? Especially when he was doing a Browns local broadcast and not a national one? Teams usually want homers on their local broadcasts.

They fired him for unprofessionalism and were correct to do so. If a Ram broadcaster did the same thing and got fired, I wouldn't shed any tears for him, nor would I think most of this forum would.

And I agree that the world has become ridiculously PC, but trying to defend Kosar's behavior using that is ridiculous.

 

[moklerman]

They fired him for unprofessionalism and were correct to do so. If a Ram broadcaster did the same thing and got fired, I wouldn't shed any tears for him, nor would I think most of this forum would.

And I agree that the world has become ridiculously PC, but trying to defend Kosar's behavior using that is ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous? Because of the PC world we're in, he couldn't criticize a player's performance in a colorful way. Harsh? Perhaps. But we're talking about an ex-player criticizing another player's performance on the field. Why is that a fire-able offense?

 

[Boffo97]

Why is it ridiculous? Because of the PC world we're in, he couldn't criticize a player's performance in a colorful way. Harsh? Perhaps. But we're talking about an ex-player criticizing another player's performance on the field. Why is that a fire-able offense?

Here's what I don't think you're getting: Kosar, in the position he was in when he made the comments, represented the Cleveland Browns. Had the Browns not acted upon those comments, they would be accepting that they endorse such statements. That would not only become locker room material later, but be pretty much the opposite of a sportsmanlike attitude. So they immediately reprimanded and later fired him over a PATTERN of unprofessional behavior, not just that one incident.

In the same way, if a Fox or CBS broadcaster declared that a player or group of players sucked, Fox or CBS would be forced to at least discipline that announcer.

So yeah, defending unprofessional behavior by hiding behind the idea that it's supposedly PC run amok is ridiculous. AND hurts the cause of actual incidents where PC has run amok.

 

[moklerman]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp...t-bernie-kosar-play-play-man-cleveland-browns

Among some of Kosar's pointed comments Thursday night were:

After an incompletion intended for Tavon Austin: "I really think that he didn't overthrow him and that Austin has to make that catch in the NFL. I see why Sam Bradford has been struggling watching how bad these receivers have been for him."

After Nick Johnson dropped a pass: "This is actually not a bad throw. These St. Louis receivers are horrible. That's a drop there."

After Browns play-by-play man Jim Donovan asked Kosar what he'd think if he knew some of the parents of Rams receivers were watching, Kosar said he "would be embarrassed."

Kosar then turned his attention to receivers coach Ray Sherman.

"I'm checking through the itinerary here of guys and coaches to see who the receivers coach is to make sure I don't know who this guy is because he's not doing very good either," Kosar said.

Kosar had praise for Bradford but didn't feel the same way about Clemens. When Donovan told Kosar, who had been asking for the use of a telestrator throughout the evening, that he might get one if he was on his best behavior, Kosar responded with a seemingly out-of-nowhere shot at Clemens, an eight-year pro out of Oregon.

"I must not be because the next quarterback in, me and him haven't done too well with each other, too," Kosar said.

Are any of these quotes even personal? Kosar, a pro-bowl level, playoff QB was disgusted with bad WR play and bad backup QB play. That's it.

Maybe he's a lush but like I said, I didn't disagree with anything he said and it was overall so tame that it's disgusting to me that fans have their collective panties in a twist about it and especially that he got fired over it.

It's just sad that we all have to act like these guys are all choir boys. Look at Joe Namath's Suzy Kolber interview. You telling me that you didn't find that entertaining and that you'd never want that to exist? So Kosar sticks it to the opposing team for his own fan's sake? I say, good for him. If Faulk comes out and says that Johnny Manziel sucks, I'm not going to raise hell with the network and demand that he's fired.

 

[moklerman]

Here's what I don't think you're getting: Kosar, in the position he was in when he made the comments, represented the Cleveland Browns. Had the Browns not acted upon those comments, they would be accepting that they endorse such statements. That would not only become locker room material later, but be pretty much the opposite of a sportsmanlike attitude. So they immediately reprimanded and later fired him over a PATTERN of unprofessional behavior, not just that one incident.

In the same way, if a Fox or CBS broadcaster declared that a player or group of players sucked, Fox or CBS would be forced to at least discipline that announcer.

So yeah, defending unprofessional behavior by hiding behind the idea that it's supposedly PC run amok is ridiculous. AND hurts the cause of actual incidents where PC has run amok.

What you call professionalism I call homogenization. Kosar was telling it like it is and he got canned because the Browns feared backlash because they're already a joke of a franchise.

 

[Boffo97]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp...t-bernie-kosar-play-play-man-cleveland-browns

Are any of these quotes even personal? Kosar, a pro-bowl level, playoff QB was disgusted with bad WR play and bad backup QB play. That's it.

Maybe he's a lush but like I said, I didn't disagree with anything he said and it was overall so tame that it's disgusting to me that fans have their collective panties in a twist about it and especially that he got fired over it.

It's just sad that we all have to act like these guys are all choir boys. Look at Joe Namath's Suzy Kolber interview. You telling me that you didn't find that entertaining and that you'd never want that to exist? So Kosar sticks it to the opposing team for his own fan's sake? I say, good for him. If Faulk comes out and says that Johnny Manziel sucks, I'm not going to raise hell with the network and demand that he's fired.

You have every right to think there was nothing wrong with the comments. Your fellow fans have every right to disagree with you and to not be called homers (or be accused of having their panties in a twist) for doing so. The Cleveland Browns certainly have a right to think there was something wrong with the comments, and THEY took action rather than there being some "raising hell" by Rams fans. In your example, the NFL Network would also have every right to discipline Faulk, and probably would before any backlash could even happen.

And yes, Namath's conduct towards Suzy Kolber was reprehensible, and he apologized for it.

What you call professionalism I call homogenization. Kosar was telling it like it is and he got canned because the Browns feared backlash because they're already a joke of a franchise.

You have every right to that opinion. You're in the vast minority. I personally am glad we don't have announcers slamming other teams whenever they feel like it for the sake of being "real". Shut up and call the game.

What you don't have a right to is calling other fans names and mocking them just because people disagree with you. And I hope you stop because you're a good poster and you could seriously damage your own credibility if you keep going there.

 

[Tron]

There aren't any Kosar quotes in the OP. You sure Kosar's blaming the NFL?

You would be correct. Read it last night while having a few drinks and responded today slightly hungover. Thats my mistake and thank you for pointing it out.

 

[moklerman]

Well, I think you're misinterpreting "homerism" as a pejorative. Many, if not most Rams fans don't give two craps about any other team or it's players and IMO, wouldn't care less if a Rams legend talked a little smack about some other team's players. In which case, I don't think they should be as offended as I've seen them over Kellen freakin' Clemens or the awful WR's who were dropping passes that Kosar commented about.

And please, there are moderators here, you don't need to police the board and/or tell me how I should be posting.

I haven't spoken about anyone personally, just given my general impression of what I've seen from "fans". There's REALLY no need for you to stand up for the masses.

That you think Namath was reprehensible makes me think you're a part of the PC problem though. He was drunk at a football game and they dragged him on camera and asked him some canned questions. They got what they wanted and more and if you can't see that a drunk guy hitting on a girl is just a part of life and think he should be sanitized then I certainly don't agree with you.

 

[snackdaddy]

Maybe Kosar got canned because he was a lousy commentator. I listened to him that game. He has a lousy delivery. Sounds like one of those guests they bring up to the broadcast booth who has no experience in calling games. For a moment I thought Kosar was a former Browns player who stopped by.

 

[moklerman]

Maybe Kosar got canned because he was a lousy commentator. I listened to him that game. He has a lousy delivery. Sounds like one of those guests they bring up to the broadcast booth who has no experience in calling games. For a moment I thought Kosar was a former Browns player who stopped by.

I don't disagree with your sentiment. He has a raspy, reedy voice and his speech is slurred. But that wasn't something new. He was canned because he said something harsh(but true) about some crappy players. He was praising Bradford and looking at things from a QB's perspective. His receivers were running bad routes(Tavon, which was confirmed and agreed with by fans for much of the first half of 2013), dropping passes(Nick Johnson (I think, he's not even around any more is he?)) and Kellen Clemens who threw 2 picks in that preseason game and has never really played well in his career.

For me, he was like listening to some buddy or a guy at the bar say what everyone's thinking. He's great for radio and local color games. Mike "Non-Threatening" Turico's fine for MNF or whatever but your local guy should have some personality and partiality.

 

[Boffo97]

Well, I think you're misinterpreting "homerism" as a pejorative. Many, if not most Rams fans don't give two craps about any other team or it's players and IMO, wouldn't care less if a Rams legend talked a little smack about some other team's players. In which case, I don't think they should be as offended as I've seen them over Kellen freakin' Clemens or the awful WR's who were dropping passes that Kosar commented about.

And please, there are moderators here, you don't need to police the board and/or tell me how I should be posting.

I haven't spoken about anyone personally, just given my general impression of what I've seen from "fans". There's REALLY no need for you to stand up for the masses.

That you think Namath was reprehensible makes me think you're a part of the PC problem though. He was drunk at a football game and they dragged him on camera and asked him some canned questions. They got what they wanted and more and if you can't see that a drunk guy hitting on a girl is just a part of life and think he should be sanitized then I certainly don't agree with you.

I don't think there's any way to interpret "homerism" but as a pejorative. You disagree with other people and rather than relying on an argument to say they're wrong, you slap them with a label (which is in itself the main issue with PC run amok, but I digress).

I never claimed to be the board police. But just as I'm not, you're not either, so you can't tell me not to say something when you go insulting all the fans who disagree with you including me. If you really want to set yourself up with a reputation where people say "Well, he called us homers and said we had our panties in a twist for disagreeing with him, so why should we take anything he says seriously?" then knock yourself out. I don't think that's a good idea, but you have that right.

What you continue to not get though, and what's at the core of this, is that people on an NFL telecast represent the NFL in general and certain people represent certain teams. As much as you want to think of the Kosar incident as the Browns being a horrible organization, I can guarantee that any team out there would have at least disciplined (remember, Kosar wasn't fired until much later) an announcer over attacking another team. It's essentially a gentlemens' agreement. If an organization makes sure their announcers aren't dogging on another team, they don't have to worry about another team's announcers dogging them.

To me, it's not about whether or not the comments were "that bad". He had no business going there in the first place. And that's why he got in trouble for it. Not because of PC, but because his employer did not want those comments being taken as representing their organization. It's just like how Rush Limbaugh got fired from ESPN because they didn't want him seen as representing their organization anymore.

 

[LesBaker]

I'm still a bit surprised at the lengths some fans will take homerism. Bernie didn't say anything that I didn't agree with. Clemens and the WR's all sucked and have sucked for a while. No reason to crucify the guy for telling it like it is. I'd much rather hear some real opinions from a color-announcer, even if I don't agree with them, than say, what Brian Billick offers.

When Bernie excoriated Schurmur's play calling in a game versus the Rams a few years back fans mostly applauded him. He tell it like it is, even when he is sober. He has a problem with alcohol and it's no secret to people back home.

 

[LesBaker]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp...t-bernie-kosar-play-play-man-cleveland-browns

Are any of these quotes even personal? Kosar, a pro-bowl level, playoff QB was disgusted with bad WR play and bad backup QB play. That's it.

Maybe he's a lush but like I said, I didn't disagree with anything he said and it was overall so tame that it's disgusting to me that fans have their collective panties in a twist about it and especially that he got fired over it.

It's just sad that we all have to act like these guys are all choir boys. Look at Joe Namath's Suzy Kolber interview. You telling me that you didn't find that entertaining and that you'd never want that to exist? So Kosar sticks it to the opposing team for his own fan's sake? I say, good for him. If Faulk comes out and says that Johnny Manziel sucks, I'm not going to raise hell with the network and demand that he's fired.

The thing was the remarks got him a TON of backlash on the internet.......Kosar was being trashed all over cyberspace and the Browns had their hand forced because the media was essentially asking them what they were going to do.......they decided to part ways.

 

[Boffo97]

On a completely random sidenote, the current definition of "Homerism" at Wiktionary is "The activity of miming of scenes from one of Homer's epics. It was common in Greek- and Roman-era pagan festivals".

If I've been doing any of that, I sincerely apologize.