Barksdale update

[Alan]

Memphis Ram missing his point:
And QBs have what to do with this topic??

There is no difference, when it comes to the draft, between QBs and the other positions on the team. You're still swimming against the math the further down in the draft order you go. A point he alluded to when he said this: "Bad news is that it is insanely unlikely that you find a guy like that at all...much less later in the draft." That is true at every position.

While I can't speak for anyone else on this board, I'm pretty sure that nobody is saying your draft strategy can't work out great for your team. The problem remains that when you go against the math your chances of being successful are less than when you draft with the math in mind. That might not show up in this draft or the next draft but over the long run the math will catch up to you. You might occasionally get that card you're looking for to fill that inside straight but you better believe that great poker players always love to play against players with your mind set. What do all great poker players have in common? They play the percentages. That is true for most things in life.

 

[DR RAM]

Or Tom Mack for that matter...Same number.

Especially, because Wells. played like a Big Mac. Looks good, high expectations, but after a little time with him, all you have is the shits.

 

[Memphis Ram]

There is no difference, when it comes to the draft, between QBs and the other positions on the team. You're still swimming against the math the further down in the draft order you go. A point he alluded to when he said this: "Bad news is that it is insanely unlikely that you find a guy like that at all...much less later in the draft." That is true at every position.

While I can't speak for anyone else on this board, I'm pretty sure that nobody is saying your draft strategy can't work out great for your team. The problem remains that when you go against the math your chances of being successful are less than when you draft with the math in mind. That might not show up in this draft or the next draft but over the long run the math will catch up to you. You might occasionally get that card you're looking for to fill that inside straight but you better believe that great poker players always love to play against players with your mind set. What do all great poker players have in common? They play the percentages. That is true for most things in life.

Sorry, but I got the point. And it's doesn't apply to this discussion due to (what seems to be ignored here) the math difference between the success/failure rates of the positions. It's far easier to find a quality non-LT OLineman outside of the first round than it is to find a quality QB.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

OG's like Tom Mack do not fall out of trees as you know you have to draft them high & fast.
Selected by the Los Angeles Rams in the 1st round of the 1966 NFL Draft

Nicely done !!!!

 

[shaunpinney]

Sorry, but I got the point. And it's doesn't apply to this discussion due to (what seems to be ignored here) the math difference between the success/failure rates of the positions. It's far easier to find a quality non-LT OLineman outside of the first round than it is to find a quality QB.

The problem being there aren't any quality QBs in this year's draft

 

[Akrasian]

Sorry, but I got the point. And it's doesn't apply to this discussion due to (what seems to be ignored here) the math difference between the success/failure rates of the positions. It's far easier to find a quality non-LT OLineman outside of the first round than it is to find a quality QB.

Just because of the number of prospects and positions to be filled, I'd hope it was at least 4 times easier to find a quality non-LT OL than a quality QB.

It probably is easier than that, even, but I suspect that the fact there are 4 times as many positions and prospects would account for much of the difference.

Also helping though is that some OTs who can't succeed in the NFL at that position can succeed at OG, I guess.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

In the past the best teams were able to continue to dominate by luring the best FAs. I don't think that would be as easy as it used to be even with no cap.

I think players make enough money. They aren't brain surgeons. They aren't protecting out freedom. They are saving lives. Yet they are paid more than any of those jobs except maybe the surgeon, but even the surgeon if they are star QBs and such.

I'd argue that much, much more money should go to retirement and health insurance and rehab programs for veteran players.if you get into congress you make that money for the rest of your life. Most politicians are horrible. Town cops make nearly their entire salary in retirement often. NFL retirement is pathetic in comparison. A lot of these guys bodies are broken by the time they are done. They need more support for what they sacrificed.

it's called an IRA. These players can more than afford to put away money on their own. Each and every one of them on the roster make over .5 million in salary at least. They can be responsible for their own finances, the NFL shouldn't burden itself with administrating that kind of thing.

 

[Alan]

Memphis Ram using the wrong numbers:
Sorry, but I got the point. And it's doesn't apply to this discussion due to (what seems to be ignored here) the math difference between the success/failure rates of the positions. It's far easier to find a quality non-LT OLineman outside of the first round than it is to find a quality QB.

That's true for some of the math but it's not true for the math I'm using in this discussion. The raw numbers (whether it's the total number of low round successes or the percentage of low round successes) are different for each position but those numbers are unimportant in this discussion. It remains the same for every position that it's easier to make a successful pick the earlier the round.
This statement: "It's far easier to find a quality non-LT OLineman outside of the first round than it is to find a quality QB" is immaterial to this discussion because the fact remains and will always remain that it's easier to find a good player the higher the round is. At every position.

I'm sorry that the math isn't working out for your drafting strategy but it is what it is.

 

[Alan]

Jorgeh0605 with a skewed view of what a company should do for its employees:
it's called an IRA. These players can more than afford to put away money on their own. Each and every one of them on the roster make over .5 million in salary at least. They can be responsible for their own finances, the NFL shouldn't burden itself with administrating that kind of thing.

Maybe I've lived a sheltered life but I've never worked for a company (to include my 21 years in the Air Force) that didn't provide counseling concerning all things pertaining to retirement. Whether it's IRAs, Roth IRAs, 401Ks or vested retirement funds to name just a few. Why shouldn't they provide this service to their valued employees? Isn't that part of what good companies do to keep their valuable employees?

 

[Mojo Ram]

the fact remains and will always remain that it's easier to find a good player the higher the round is.

Yep. To dispute this is analysis paralysis.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

it's called an IRA. These players can more than afford to put away money on their own. Each and every one of them on the roster make over .5 million in salary at least. They can be responsible for their own finances, the NFL shouldn't burden itself with administrating that kind of thing.

I disagree. Some of the richest players go broke. A good portion of these guys are admitted to colleges that they never could qualify to attend if they were not athletes. There are enough that are not intelligent enough to manage the money that they should be paying into a retirement, or have some sort of backup plan. The NFL helps create the situation, they should take more responsibility for these guys lives.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Just because of the number of prospects and positions to be filled, I'd hope it was at least 4 times easier to find a quality non-LT OL than a quality QB.

It probably is easier than that, even, but I suspect that the fact there are 4 times as many positions and prospects would account for much of the difference.

Also helping though is that some OTs who can't succeed in the NFL at that position can succeed at OG, I guess.

And you also have more incoming supply of players which helps.

 

[Memphis Ram]

That's true for some of the math but it's not true for the math I'm using in this discussion. The raw numbers (whether it's the total number of low round successes or the percentage of low round successes) are different for each position but those numbers are unimportant in this discussion. It remains the same for every position that it's easier to make a successful pick the earlier the round.
This statement: "It's far easier to find a quality non-LT OLineman outside of the first round than it is to find a quality QB" is immaterial to this discussion because the fact remains and will always remain that it's easier to find a good player the higher the round is. At every position.

I'm sorry that the math isn't working out for your drafting strategy but it is what it is.

My statement isn't immaterial to the discussion I was having. I'm sorry, but it appears that you've inserted yourself into this discussion using "math" that wasn't even disputed.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Yep. To dispute this is analysis paralysis.

And hopefully no one will dispute the strawman argument.

 

[Alan]

Memphis Ram reaching:
My statement isn't immaterial to the discussion I was having. I'm sorry, but it appears that you've inserted yourself into this discussion using "math" that wasn't even disputed.

That's always a possibility Memphis. :seizure:

 

[hotanez]

So no updates on Barksdale?

 

[CodeMonkey]

So no updates on Barksdale?

Six pages worth!!

 

[hotanez]

Six pages worth!!

Lol

 

[Mojo Ram]

And hopefully no one will dispute the strawman argument.

A sure sign of the appearance of the strawman is when someone can't admit they're wrong, and just prefer to debate it on and on and on. I don't play that game.
I'm not here to debate, nor to prove everyone else is wrong or just doesn't "get it"...otherwise our discussion earlier in this thread, where you moved the goalpost, would have continued.

 

[Memphis Ram]

A sure sign of the appearance of the strawman is when someone can't admit they're wrong, and just prefer to debate it on and on and on. I don't play that game.
I'm not here to debate, nor to prove everyone else is wrong or just doesn't "get it"...otherwise our discussion earlier in this thread, where you moved the goalpost, would have continued.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. And I'd glady admit to being wrong here if I were proven wrong of something I've actually stated or believed. Not what someone thinks I've said or believe or they want to insert and debate.

And in our debate, earlier in this thread, the goal post was actually moved by yourself when you went way back to the 5th and 6th round in your very first response to me (after I responded to jrry32). It was as if the 3rd & 4th round (where they actually have selections) didn't even exist.