Would you trade two firsts for Cam Newton?

[jrry32]

Yea, I haven't really taken the time to break him down yet so I'm not going to make any conclusions on him but I saw him against UCLA and he looked like a mid round talent in that game. Short, average mobility, mediocre arm strength, and he didn't really astound me with his skills. Maybe it was just a bad game. If he declares, I'll watch more of him.

But he doesn't have Newton's physical talent, I can tell you that.

 

[RamFan503]

That's the case with all college kids though. Bradford had a TREMENDOUS supporting cast and a beast running game. I just look at what I think are intangibles that can be coached up even better. He (IMO) has Manning-like feet, good escapability, sees the whole field, has a great delivery, and good maneuverability. Just don't know if he's declaring yet.

I'll be interested to see if he does come out. To be honest, I haven't liked much of what I've seen in how his game would work. I don't see a lot of things that would overcome his height besides that switchblade release. But I'm game to zero in on him more if he declares. I always assumed he was staying in so I didn't pay maybe as much attention. But he always looked pretty overwhelmed.

 

[Rambitious1]

Who are we going to get in the mid first round at QB this year that is as good as Newton?

Unlikely to get a QB in any first round that is right off the bat as good as any vet.
I just don't think very highly of Newton. Long haul, I think he's just another journeyman QB.
And if that's so, why would you even trade 1 first rounder for a journeyman QB?
JMHO.

 

[jrry32]

Unlikely to get a QB in any first round that is right off the bat as good as any vet.
I just don't think very highly of Newton. Long haul, I think he's just another journeyman QB.
And if that's so, why would you even trade 1 first rounder for a journeyman QB?
JMHO.

I don't know of too many journeymen QBs that have done what Newton has done thus far in his career.

 

[Rambitious1]

I don't know of too many journeymen QBs that have done what Newton has done thus far in his career.

JMHO I don't think he's done a ton so far.
But, I believe his poor QB stats he's put up this year, are just the beginning.
I guess we just see him differently.

 

[jrry32]

JMHO I don't think he's done a ton so far.
But, I believe his poor QB stats he's put up this year, are just the beginning.
I guess we just see him differently.

92 TDs to 48 TOs his first 3 years in the league(31 TDs to 16 TOs a year on average). Helped his team win 12 games and go to the playoffs his third year in the NFL.

I'd say he's done quite a bit.

And while his stats aren't good this year, the guy has one of the worst supporting casts in football and has been injured all year. I know every person here remembers 2011 for Sam...not sure why people would ignore something like that in Newton's case.

The guy isn't Peyton Manning but he's shown the ability to be an above average QB and is still only 25 years old.

 

[blue4]

What? If we're discounting age, any of the top 10-14 QBs in the NFL are worth two first round picks...easily.

Why would we discount age? Both age and injuries. We'll just have to disagree on giving up 2 1st for a 14th ranked QB.

 

[jrry32]

Why would we discount age? Both age and injuries. We'll just have to disagree on giving up 2 1st for a 14th ranked QB.

Because age is irrelevant in this case. Newton is 25. And I don't particularly feel like listing out of every single top QB and having to explain what I feel their value is based on their age, contract, injury history, etc.

These QBs...if you discount age...are all worth AT LEAST two first round picks:
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Philip Rivers
7. Tony Romo
8. Andrew Luck
9. Matt Ryan
10. Russell Wilson
11. Cam Newton

The other QBs are not. Some are worth a first round plus another pick such as Matt Stafford, Joe Flacco, and Eli Manning (if we're discounting age).

Lets be honest, this is AT LEAST a 11-12 win team with one of the QBs listed above. Do you know of another position that makes that sort of impact?

 

[jjab360]

I would trade for 20 Johnny Manziels before I would trade for that self centered attention whore.

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. There is this stigma surrounding Newton since before he's gotten to the league that he has done nothing but dispel during his time in the NFL.

And I don't care if Newton was the most self centered person on earth, I'm not wasting resources on a player with as little NFL potential as "Johnny Football".

 

[blue4]

Because age is irrelevant in this case. Newton is 25. And I don't particularly feel like listing out of every single top QB and having to explain what I feel their value is based on their age, contract, injury history, etc.

These QBs...if you discount age...are all worth AT LEAST two first round picks:
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Philip Rivers
7. Tony Romo
8. Andrew Luck
9. Matt Ryan
10. Russell Wilson
11. Cam Newton

The other QBs are not. Some are worth a first round plus another pick such as Matt Stafford, Joe Flacco, and Eli Manning (if we're discounting age).

Lets be honest, this is AT LEAST a 11-12 win team with one of the QBs listed above. Do you know of another position that makes that sort of impact?

No one is asking you to break down QBs value. No one is asking you to explain anything. You're the one who said that discounting age the top 14 QBs are worth 2 1sts. I don't see the value in not discounting age since it would apply if you were going to trade for one of those top 14. You brought the 14 other QBs up. I just disagree that they are worth 2 firsts, including Newton. You disagree that's fine, but don't act like I asked you to provide anything.

 

[-X-]

Yea, I haven't really taken the time to break him down yet so I'm not going to make any conclusions on him but I saw him against UCLA and he looked like a mid round talent in that game. Short, average mobility, mediocre arm strength, and he didn't really astound me with his skills. Maybe it was just a bad game. If he declares, I'll watch more of him.

But he doesn't have Newton's physical talent, I can tell you that.

I'll concede that he's not Cam Newton, but he doesn't have to be. And you won't need to give up two firsts for him if he declares. He'll be right there when we pick. Maybe even in the 2nd round, but I wouldn't count on it. I haven't seen many QBs like him lately, and if you study his footwork and vision, you'll come away impressed.

 

[jrry32]

No one is asking you to break down QBs value. No one is asking you to explain anything. You're the one who said that discounting age the top 14 QBs are worth 2 1sts. I don't see the value in not discounting age since it would apply if you were going to trade for one of those top 14. You brought the 14 other QBs up. I just disagree that they are worth 2 firsts, including Newton. You disagree that's fine, but don't act like I asked you to provide anything.

Okay. But that's why I'm discounting age. Because it would affect value and would force an explanation for a good chunk of the QBs when Newton is 25 which means age doesn't come into play as a negative for him. I'm just answering your question.

 

[dhaab]

I'm with you and you and I have had these discussion over the years on the Herd. Running QB's eventually collapse. I think Newton has lasted longer because of his size and strength and it seems to me that typically after 1-3 years these types of guys end up gone or as a backup somewhere.

Disagree. Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, John Elway, Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young and Randall Cunningham all had long careers in the NFL.

 

[Rambitious1]

92 TDs to 48 TOs his first 3 years in the league(31 TDs to 16 TOs a year on average). Helped his team win 12 games and go to the playoffs his third year in the NFL.

I'd say he's done quite a bit.

And while his stats aren't good this year, the guy has one of the worst supporting casts in football and has been injured all year. I know every person here remembers 2011 for Sam...not sure why people would ignore something like that in Newton's case.

The guy isn't Peyton Manning but he's shown the ability to be an above average QB and is still only 25 years old.

Not ignoring it. I get that.
However, not sure why anyone would ignore Newton getting bailed out by his receivers early and often when he started his career. I watched him play several games in his first two years. Dude was not even close to accurate. Receivers had to lunge, jump and dive (which they did fairly successfully) to catch his errant passes and pad his stats/bail him out.

We're just going to have to disagree about him.

 

[jrry32]

Not ignoring it. I get that.
However, not sure why anyone would ignore Newton getting bailed out by his receivers early and often when he started his career. I watched him play several games in his first two years. Dude was not even close to accurate. Receivers had to lunge, jump and dive (which they did fairly successfully) to catch his errant passes and pad his stats/bail him out.

We're just going to have to disagree about him.

Because it didn't happen? Not to say that his WRs/TEs never made difficult plays due to an inaccurate pass but the argument that he got bailed out is just a bad one. The guy had solid weapons and an above average to good OL. But it's not like he was out there with Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, and Julio Jones. He had a good #1 WR in Steve Smith, a good TE in Greg Olsen, and then a bunch of average or worse players.

It's not like he had the best weapons in the game.

 

[rfip the second]

Not for Cam. I'd trade 1 first rounder for Big Ben though.

 

[Rambitious1]

Because it didn't happen? Not to say that his WRs/TEs never made difficult plays due to an inaccurate pass but the argument that he got bailed out is just a bad one. The guy had solid weapons and an above average to good OL. But it's not like he was out there with Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, and Julio Jones. He had a good #1 WR in Steve Smith, a good TE in Greg Olsen, and then a bunch of average or worse players.

It's not like he had the best weapons in the game.

I agree. He did not have the best weapons in the game. But then I never said he did.
That does not change the fact that his receivers bailed him out NUMEROUS times during that period.
His positive stats during that time are deceiving.

 

[LesBaker]

Not for Cam. I'd trade 1 first rounder for Big Ben though.

Your down to 231 bucks.........man you have got to stop logging into the sportsbook and betting with your heart!!!

 

[rfip the second]

Your down to 231 bucks.........man you have got to stop logging into the sportsbook and betting with your heart!!!

Why did I take your advice and bet on the Rams!!!

 

[LesBaker]

I forgot the blue font on the logging into the sportsbook part.

Who ya thinking about this week?