What is a "true #1 WR"??

[Boffo97]

I see now. You seem to be a bit too focused on on draft positions and not actual players.

Don't start that kind of crap. I'm not "too focused" on anything. I just have a different opinion than you. It happens.

Bradford could have been an undrafted FA steal instead of a #1 overall selection. Fisher went to a team with a young starting potential franchise QB. Why? Because they are hard to find and typically not having one isn't good for job security.

But why have a #1 overall QB if you're too busy drafting a left tackle when we already have a left tackle to give him a weapon to throw to?

Limiting the #2 pick to LT makes more sense if the old CBA were still in place due to it's financial implications. But, that's not the case today. That is one of the reasons we saw guards selected in the top 10 last year.

The paychecks may be lower, but the pick is still a premium though. And most people seem to want Robinson or Matthews to ultimately be LT even if that means throwing Long away. Fix the holes in the boat before you shore up a non leaky spot because it might leak later.

Finally, Fisher is the guy that hired Schottenhiemer. And Fisher is ultimately responsible for what happens on both sides of the football. I have yet to read anything anywhere where Schottenhiemer has been given full reign of the offense to do whatever he wants to do. However, I have read where Fisher stepped in after that 49er game debacle and had the team/Schottenhiemer place more of an emphasis on the rushing attack, though.

Fisher had to step in because what we were doing wasn't working, both due to OL issues (at least at times), and WR issues (constantly). Fix the WR corps with a #1 and the OL with a guard rather than a conservative dated approach.

 

[RamFan503]

We have used lots of premium picks on WR of late and they are still on the team.

 

[Alan]

tbux maybe missing the point:
you seem pretty strong against taking Watkins- sighting wanting the youngins to develop- so either you think we have one, you think Watkins isn't one, or don't believe we need one to win (which you have stated many times) - yet you want Clowney- a guy who would be a rotational guy when we have two very good Des already, and a very solid backup in Hayes. Doesn't make much sense to me.

I think what he means is that everyone wants a #1 caliber WR but everyone also wants a #1 caliber O-line and D-line and RB and so on. He and I just think having a #1 caliber WR is not as high a priority as having a #1 caliber O-line when looking at the whole picture. I personally think that WR isn't even in second place priorities wise. DB is.

 

[iced]

We have used lots of premium picks on WR of late and they are still on the team.

yet continue to showcase talent inconsistently. They're not overplaying their draft spots, like Alec Ogletree... nor do they provide any assurance that they're the solution to the problem, and not just another question mark

 

[Memphis Ram]

you seem pretty strong against taking Watkins- sighting wanting the youngins to develop- so either you think we have one, you think Watkins isn't one, or don't believe we need one to win (which you have stated many times) - yet you want Clowney- a guy who would be a rotational guy when we have two very good Des already, and a very solid backup in Hayes. Doesn't make much sense to me.

I don't know if the Rams have one already on the roster developing. And neither do you.
I don't know if Watkins will turn out to be one. And neither do you.
I don't believe that a Jeff Fisher team needs one. And he's proven that repeatedly.
But, I do know that many consider this to be the deepest draft class at the position in years.

As for Clowney, unlike Watkins, I see him as a rare talent. And one that could assist in making a good Defense an elite defense providing the team the opportunity to have a potential stud on the field at all times. That's how the Giants and Seahawks got rings by stopping 3 of the leagues higher powered offenses in Super Bowls.

And while I've repeated this several times, I say it again, the 2014 NFL draft is not just about the 2014 NFL season. AND most rookies don't make the immediate impact that most fans seem to believe the will and/or dream.

All that said, Matthews or Robinson + a nice draft choice package > Clowney.

 

[tbux]

I think what he means is that everyone wants a #1 caliber WR but everyone also wants a #1 caliber O-line and D-line and RB and so on. He and I just think having a #1 caliber WR not as high a priority as having a #1 caliber O-line when looking at the whole picture. I personally think that WR isn't even in second place priorities wise. DB is.

I agree, but Im talking about taking a game changer- compared to a OG- which history shows have more success finding gems later than a # 1 caliber wr. I don't want to ignore Oline- I am simply saying with our top pick- Watkins to me is the best player. You may disagree- and that's cool. I think Safety is a high priority- but I don't want one with the top pick.

 

[tbux]

I don't know if the Rams have one already on the roster developing. And neither do you.
I don't know if Watkins will turn out to be one. And neither do you.
I don't believe that a Jeff Fisher team needs one. And he's proven that repeatedly.
But, I do know that many consider this to be the deepest draft class at the position in years.

As for Clowney, unlike Watkins, I see him as a rare talent. And one that could assist in making a good Defense an elite defense providing the team the opportunity to have a potential stud on the field at all times. That's how the Giants and Seahawks got rings by stopping 3 of the leagues higher powered offenses in Super Bowls.

And while I've repeated this several times, I say it again, the 2014 NFL draft is not just about the 2014 NFL season. AND most rookies don't make the immediate impact that most fans seem to believe the will and/or dream.

All that said, Matthews or Robinson, plus a nice draft choice package > Clowney.

and why does taking Watkins not drafting for the future? as you have said- takes time to develop. And I think Watkins is indeed a rare talent- hence our disagreement. And tell me how we get him on the field at all times- who is sitting( Clowney)?

 

[Alan]

tbux defining his position:
I agree, but Im talking about taking a game changer- compared to a OG- which history shows have more success finding gems later than a # 1 caliber wr. I don't want to ignore Oline- I am simply saying with our top pick- Watkins to me is the best player. You may disagree- and that's cool. I think Safety is a high priority- but I don't want one with the top pick.

We understand what you're talking about. We understand that you thinks that trumps having a #1 caliber O-line. So even knowing that, we still think the O-line improvement stands to gain us the most advancement towards our goal of winning the SB. We think having a #1 caliber, game changing WR would be a huge advancement too.
Lets work on that too.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Don't start that kind of crap. I'm not "too focused" on anything. I just have a different opinion than you. It happens.

But why have a #1 overall QB if you're too busy drafting a left tackle when we already have a left tackle to give him a weapon to throw to?

The paychecks may be lower, but the pick is still a premium though. And most people seem to want Robinson or Matthews to ultimately be LT even if that means throwing Long away. Fix the holes in the boat before you shore up a non leaky spot because it might leak later.

Fisher had to step in because what we were doing wasn't working, both due to OL issues (at least at times), and WR issues (constantly). Fix the WR corps with a #1 and the OL with a guard rather than a conservative dated approach.

What crap? You keep saying #1 overall QB instead of the guys name. Sam Bradford.

While the team already has a LT, what's wrong with getting a quality bookend capable with the potential to replace said LT given his significant injury history? Again, these guys just don't fall from the trees whenever they are needed. For example, Arizona has been looking for years. It shouldn't be odd for a team to snatch one up when the opportunity arises. I mean should the Rams have passed on Orlando Pace since they had Wanye Gandy already?

And I've yet to read anyone who wanted to throw Long away. It's just that some of us see the guys injury history and have concerns. And those concerns seem to include the front office who structured his contract they way they did so that they could get out of it quickly. And why not fix the so-called hole in the boat with a player with the potential of playing 4-5 positions along the OLine at a high level? Isn't that far better than plugging a hole with a player who cannot?

Fisher stepped in and went right back to what he was doing in Tennessee that worked. A balanced offense with a strong running game and strong defense. Do you really believe his plan is to add more pieces necessary to attempt to do what failed last year?? After he saw what worked with the guys already on hand? It makes far more sense to build upon what was working doesn't it??

 

[tbux]

We understand what you're talking about. We understand that you thinks that trumps having a #1 caliber O-line. So even knowing that, we still think the O-line improvement stands to gain us the most advancement towards our goal of winning the SB. We think having a #1 caliber, game changing WR would be a huge advancement too.
Lets work on that too.

it isn't either/or - we have 9 picks!

 

[Alan]

tbux wanting it all:
it isn't either/or - we have 9 picks!

Sounds good to me. O-line and DB the first 4 picks and WRs that last five. That's more than fair. Just kidding! But it brings up a point. The higher the pick the higher the chance of a big hit. So which side of this debate will get the first pick. I know who you'll say. I can tell you right now that if Watkins is still there at #13 I'll run up to the podium with the ticket with his name on it myself.

So where does that leave us, I forget?

 

[RamFan503]

yet continue to showcase talent inconsistently. They're not overplaying their draft spots, like Alec Ogletree... nor do they provide any assurance that they're the solution to the problem, and not just another question mark

^Wants to draft another question mark.

 

[tbux]

Sounds good to me. O-line and DB the first 4 picks and WRs that last five. That's more than fair. Just kidding! But it brings up a point. The higher the pick the higher the chance of a big hit. So which side of this debate will get the first pick. I know who you'll say. I can tell you right now that if Watkins is still there at #13 I'll run up to the podium with the ticket with his name on it myself.

So where does that leave us, I forget?

I wouldn't be upset if we take Robinson or Matthews over Watkins- I see the logic in it. I have a sneaky feeling Watkins is the guy they want- Snead personally going to his pro day and simply sending Bou to the OT's pro day- was kinda fishy (pun intended). we will see- If they think one of the OTs is the best route- how can I argue that? cant. I also see the logic in FINALLY getting Sam a weapon he can trust and build a true rapport with when he needs a play made.

 

[Alan]

Words of wisdom tbux.

 

[Memphis Ram]

and why does taking Watkins not drafting for the future? as you have said- takes time to develop. And I think Watkins is indeed a rare talent- hence our disagreement. And tell me how we get him on the field at all times- who is sitting( Clowney)?

Geez. Read the lines and not between them. No one is saying or has said that a selection of Watkins is not drafting for the future.

Shoot, Tavon Austin is a rare talent. But, in the realm of this dicussion, I might believe that Watkins is a rare talent if he didn't catch 70% of his passes within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage AND he had the size of the rare talents who are currently #1 WRs in the NFL.

Julio Jones - 6026, 220 lbs., 33 3/4" arms, 4.34/40, 38" vertical jump.
A.J. Green - 6035, 211 lbs., 34 3/8" arms, 4.48/40, 34 1/2" vertical jump.
Calvin Johnson - 6050, 239 lbs., 33.375 arms, 4.35/40 42 1/2 vertical jump.

Sammy Watkins - 6005, 211 lbs, 32" arms, 4.43/40, 34" vertical jump.

Most don't want to hear it, but guys like Jones, Green, Johnson and the like are rare, special, and tough to defend because of their skills AND THEIR SIZE. It's not just one or the other. BOTH play a huge role in their catch radius and their difficulty to cover. That is rare.

How do we get Clowney on the field? Replacing Eugene Sims (and his 5 sacks in 4 seasons) reps. Using him at DT some ala Justin Tuck. And perhaps even a slight lowering of the reps of Long and Quinn. How much more effective will they all be if they are fresher? Besides, Williams has packages where they could even have 5 DLineman on the field with one playing more of a strong side LB type (Long). Creativity. And again, if one goes down to injury for a short time or long time, the team still has a potential special player to step in and keep the pressure on opposing offenses.

 

[RamFan503]

We understand what you're talking about. We understand that you thinks that trumps having a #1 caliber O-line. So even knowing that, we still think the O-line improvement stands to gain us the most advancement towards our goal of winning the SB. We think having a #1 caliber, game changing WR would be a huge advancement too.
Lets work on that too.

Nope. Gotta be either or.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I wouldn't be upset if we take Robinson or Matthews over Watkins- I see the logic in it. I have a sneaky feeling Watkins is the guy they want- Snead personally going to his pro day and simply sending Bou to the OT's pro day- was kinda fishy (pun intended). we will see- If they think one of the OTs is the best route- how can I argue that? cant. I also see the logic in FINALLY getting Sam a weapon he can trust and build a true rapport with when he needs a play made.

Curious. Did Snead go to West Virginia's Pro Day last year?

 

[RamFan503]

Curious. Did Snead go to West Virginia's Pro Day last year?

Was that a trap?

 

[tbux]

So you want to take a premier DE prospect and play him at DT at times? and Long at LB (not fast enough)?? yeah no thanks. If we didn't have the depth we have at DE- I would buy it- but we do. Our Dline is one of the best in the NFL- our DE's are surely among the top DE units in the NFL. no need to reduce snaps of productive players. Hayes and Sims give them the breather they need already.

now go to Oline and WR- surely we could use an elite level player there, and surely they will have a bigger impact.

and a 6'1 wr with 4.4 speed is a mismatch for most Cbs - who's average NFL height is 5'10. not to mention his great quickness as well.

you repeatedly punish him for catching the short passes. Last I checked he didn't design the plays at Clemson. they played off because trying to press him is suicide and they would get beat deep. He made plays all over- he isn't one dimensional- so I am not concerned about the 70% number you like to throw out. That isn't a knock- it is a result of that offense= one he THRIVED in. teams knew what was coming, and couldn't stop it! he has plenty size and plenty speed to be a top level NFL wr. Oh and great hands. oh and intelligence. Nothing about his game says he wont thrive at the next level- not to mention his insane drive and work ethic- two things Clowney is questioned about.

 

[Alan]

RamFan503 laying down the law:
Nope. Gotta be either or.

If you insist on tying my hands like that then when forced to pick I'd chose...or. But I'm not a happy camper.