We have 3 players that are a bit problematic, huh?

[LARams_1963]

I think the OP is spot on.

 

[shaunpinney]

I think this is a huge part of the running game too....Don't understand why some don't see this.

They just see the dollars he's paid...

 

[12intheBox]

Not directed at you, but you mentioned both Watkins and Austin so I quoted you.

If Watkins is taking up 2 defenders and Austin is talking up 2 defenders, that only leaves 7 defenders for the rest of the team. How is it then that with these two super decoys we can't score on every play?

I don't think a successful decoy has to be able to get a TD on any given play. They really only need to be able to get a solid 8 to 10 yards. Or more if you forget about them. I think Pharaoh Cooper could probably do that on the jet sweeps. Let them ignore him and we'll take the first down and more. Or if they're paying attention we'll take the second and short. We'll sustain drives and run time of the clock.

I don't think P Cooper can do 100%of what Austin can do. But he can probably do 80% and all that in addition to what he's already doing. The less variety of things Austin is capable of doing the less of a decoy he becomes. And that's kind of where it is now I think. He's becoming one dimensional. The fake is now the standard and the actual play involving him is the decoy.

They draw attention in different ways - it's not that they both are being double teamed.

Austin moves the linebackers as the snap begins. This isn't "taking up" anyone so much as getting guys leaning the wrong way - which allows Gurley to rip off 7-8 yard runs.

Sammy is taking the #1CB and drawing safety attention deep - this opens up the 8-15 yard routes which we have seen a ton of.

The point is, they aren't really decoys at all - they are viable options. When the D fails to respect these viable options, they will be burned by them.

 

[1maGoh]

They draw attention in different ways - it's not that they both are being double teamed.

Austin moves the linebackers as the snap begins. This isn't "taking up" anyone so much as getting guys leaning the wrong way - which allows Gurley to rip off 7-8 yard runs.

Sammy is taking the #1CB and drawing safety attention deep - this opens up the 8-15 yard routes which we have seen a ton of.

The point is, they aren't really decoys at all - they are viable options. When the D fails to respect these viable options, they will be burned by them.

Exactly. And I think there's probably a lot of guys that can be a "viable option" on a jet sweep and the handful of other run plays he's used in now. Maybe not Austin dangerous, but just dangerous enough to have the same effect. Sans that long ticket from the Hawks game, but I bet they could also be effective on other ways as well.

 

[Soul Surfer]

View attachment 22133
When I ran into Quinn's dad I took it as an omen that I needed to stop bad mouthing the man so I'm done.

 

[Rabid Ram]

I agree about Tavon and Watkins. But I just can't agree about Quinn. Yet! He's holding his own. he had 2 tackles / 2 Tackles for loss and 1 QB Hit during the Jag's game. that's the "Stats" but I saw him getting more pressure than the stats reflect in this game and other games!

We had this very same argument for years about Chris long

 

[sjm1582002]

Austin and Quinn cannot be "graded" any higher than "adequate" starters but are being paid like premier performers.

The decision on whether their contracts will be continued is obvious. Be interesting to see how eagerly the Rams try to resign either player.

Mr Watkins has the whole rest of the year to make an impression and earn a new contract.

This team is in great shape.

 

[DaveFan'51]

We had this very same argument for years about Chris long

And it's a very valid point in both cases! It's called "Intangibles!"

 

[Rabid Ram]

And it's a very valid point in both cases! It's called "Intangibles!"

I'm not saying it's invalid so not sure why the need to bold and exclamation point the counter. I'm was just trying to make comparisons

 

[Merlin]

I believe Austin’s snaps can be admirably handled by Cooper.

Agreed. Not only does Pharoh have the ability to run those as a decoy, but he can also <gasp> give McVay the flexibility of putting him out there on routes in the passing game.

 

[Merlin]

I'ma go ahead and say I don't like Sammy Watkins, I think he is problem, and runs super lazy routes, and half asses his effort at times. I don't expect him to be with us after this season.

Watkins has faced two of the best secondaries in the league back to back. But yeah, he's been not only loafing on plays where he thinks Jared won't make the throw, but out of synch with the QB in general. That deep pass yesterday he was knocked off course a little by the DB but still should have looked for and went up for that ball.

I don't want to hear any more BS about how "When Watkins is covered he's open" or "OMG we need to get Sammy the ball more." The goal with this offense isn't to feed star players. It's to spread it around in an unpredictable manner and get the W.

 

[DaveFan'51]

I'm not saying it's invalid so not sure why the need to bold and exclamation point the counter. I'm was just trying to make comparisons

In case you have never noticed before, I always write in Bold. and the exclamation point are just my style!

 

[12intheBox]

Exactly. And I think there's probably a lot of guys that can be a "viable option" on a jet sweep and the handful of other run plays he's used in now. Maybe not Austin dangerous, but just dangerous enough to have the same effect. Sans that long ticket from the Hawks game, but I bet they could also be effective on other ways as well.

It's a game of inches. If it's maybe not quite as dangerous - then it isn't just dangerous enough to have the same effect.

Could Cooper run a jet sweep? Sure - most of our backs and receivers could run one .... would the defense need to contain the edge when they run one? Yes. Would they need to be moving that way pre snap in order to be sure they don't get beaten around the edge? That's probably the difference.

Tavon is frustrating - his hands are suspect and he runs crappy routes - but with the ball in his hands in space, he is elite. Elite means something that can't just be replaced by adequate - and that's the point. His presence changes the defense in ways other players don't.

 

[Rabid Ram]

In case you have never noticed before, I always write in Bold. and the exclamation point are just my style!

Fair enough lol no I've never actually noticed

 

[Psycho_X]

It seems like Quinn is getting better each game with this defense. But he's completely negating that with his offsides and other penalties. I'm not completely down on Quinn yet because, like I said, I've seen improvement with him the last couple of games. Or maybe it's just the defense as a whole being more in sync with each other. But he still needs to get better to justify the contract beyond this year.

Tavon is extremely useful to this offense. The question is does it justify the numbers at the end of the year? Only McVay can answer that when the time comes. His muffed punts have ruined his bonus value so far though.

Watkins, I don't know, got to give him more time also. Came in late to the team, has been playing against shut down CBs, and obviously either gave up or didn't understand the play for what would have been some huge gainers. It's a contract year, he'll need to light it up against the lesser defenses we face the rest of the year if he wants that huge payday.

 

[Rmfnlt]

If Sammy was running that route where Woods stopped inexplicitly and turned into the defender and fumbled, Sammy takes that to the house. Woods is so used to being in tight space that he had no idea how wide open he was, but Sammy would have known.

How can you say this with such certainty? Maybe...
"If Sammy was running that route where Woods stopped inexplicitly and turned into the defender and fumbled, Sammy might have taken it to the house. Woods is so used to being in tight space that he had no idea how wide open he was, but Sammy might have known."

 

[…..]

How can you say this with such certainty? Maybe...
"If Sammy was running that route where Woods stopped inexplicitly and turned into the defender and fumbled, Sammy might have taken it to the house. Woods is so used to being in tight space that he had no idea how wide open he was, but Sammy might have known."

ok man...I'm good with your edits. whatever it takes to make you comfortable. Thanks.

 

[Rmfnlt]

The goal with this offense isn't to feed star players. It's to spread it around in an unpredictable manner and get the W.

Preach it Brother... preach it!!

 

[OnceARam]

And they’re not really the players that many had expected.

Goff’s doing fine. Better than fine, really.
Gurley is having a helluva season.
Sully has excelled at C.
Barron has more than held up at ILB so far.

Nope, the above are all exceeding our expectations.

Here are my “problematic three”.

Tavon Austin. My feelings are well known. He’s a man without a position. And weakens the team when he’s placed on the field.
Robert Quinn. Is it fair to say that he’s degenerated into our weakest link on D? I think so.
Sammy Watkins. Not too early to call him problematic is it? Something’s just not “right” there, okay? Big disappointment compared to expectations, so far.

Honestly, I think Tavon and Quinn will be gone next year. Watkins? Let’s just say that he needs to start impressing if he expects to be rewarded with a big Ram contract.

Sigh...

Feels good to get that off my chest.

Didn't Barron get stuck on a block leading to that 75 yard TD run against us this past weekend, or was that gap (C gap?) someone else's responsibility?

 

[Rams43]

Agreed. Not only does Pharoh have the ability to run those as a decoy, but he can also <gasp> give McVay the flexibility of putting him out there on routes in the passing game.

Very true, Merlin.

Another posssible Pharoh advantage over Tavon on those sweeps is that he’s perfectly capable of drawing up and throwing a pass. A pass that could be a TD. Done it several times in college.

Now THAT’s an extra dimension for the opposing D to worry about. Pharoh could be every bit the distraction that some think Tavon is. Tavon is sooooo overrated...