We have 3 players that are a bit problematic, huh?

[12intheBox]

How many millions are you willing to pay a decoy?

If the philosphy is to take what a defense gives you - then the question is how many millions are you willing to pay a guy who occupies 2/11 defenders and creates openings in the field for your offense? You don't pay a player for their statistics - you pay them for their effect on the game.

 

[…..]

Quinn came in with a Lot of energy yesterday. Both pre game and in the game. For those looking at stat lines, try to remember the an OLB in this system isn't going to get a Lot of tackles. He did have the two TFL's that are huge because it changes the opposing playbook to have a 2nd and 13 to go rather than 2nd 6 or 7

Seemed like the Rams tried to get Watkins the ball on a similar play deep at least two, maybe three times. It's a play off the Double fake. Fake to Gurley, then to Tavon and one of the few 7 step drops we use. Takes a bit to develop. The line gave Goff the time, but Watkins didn't get open. Watkins needs to start getting open, but Goff could also throw a better ball. Either way....the play is getting recognizable by me and if I can see it coming, then you know their defense sees it too. I saw Watkins wide wide open at least twice on two other plays over the middle, one the ball went incomplete to Woods, the other was a sack when Goff didnt feel the pocket. There was one where Watkins CLEARLY didn't know what play we were running when Goff checked out of the original. Kupp said something to him but Goff only communicated to his right, so we all knew Watkins and Kupp, lined up out left, were not going to be in the play at all. To me, that shit needs to get fixed asap. Goff needs to at least sell it and audible to everyone, not just the guy he's gonna throw to. Overall, Watkins body language, Goff's audibles, and the plays they ran all pointed to Watkins really only being part of the plan a few times. Goff is obviously more confident throwing right to Woods than he is throwing left to Watkins. To me, they have work to do and fast or the story of Watkins and the Rams is going to be a short story.

We sure like to talk about TA, and that ship has sailed a thousand different sunsets here at ROD and we are beating a dead horse. The reality of him being our motion guy is getting tired and used but clearly is going to be who we are. However, I hope we get to see a few new wrinkles soon. Tavon would do great on a drag route on the bootleg play we've been having success with, but it doesn't feel like the Rams are ready to rotate personnel to give the same looks with different players. It's starting to seem to me like we are a very easy film study, at least where Austin and certain packages are concerned.

I'm curious to see if we are going to discuss these three in a negative light each and every week, win or lose. The amount of threads we make to go over the obvious again and again will do nothing to change things. They are what they are, we know what they are. The coaching staff knows, and Snead knows.

You don't make huge changes mid stride. At some point you guys are going to have to accept them as Ramily and embrace the team as it is. Not because it's the best team ever, but because it's the team you've been givin.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I think most NFL GMs would drag their balls across hot coals to have those 3 players as their problems.

Yeah, I guess we're gonna get one of these threads every Monday (related to Austin, Watkins and Quinn).

The three most polarizing players on the team is sure to get traffic, huh?

But I agree with you... for now, Austin and Watkins are keeping defenders "occupied" while others get the targets. That's OK.

Quinn? I thought he played better yesterday but that persona foul (which, IMO, was legit) really pissed me foo.

At the end of the year, the true value of having decoys like Austin and Watkins is worth retaining them. If not, it'll get figured out.

Until then, I guess we'll see these threads pop up every Monday... have at it.

 

[…..]

Yeah, I guess we're gonna get one of these threads every Monday

Dilly Dilly!

 

[thirteen28]

With Watkins I will take the "wait and see" approach. He spent training camp with another team and still isn't fully integrated into the O IMO.

Austin ... my frustration with him is that he still hasn't developed into a decent WR and he's become a liability on punt returns, where he should be an asset. He is an asset in the running game, that's it. While his salary is a sunk cost for this season, it won't be next season. He has to show a lot more if he wants to stick around.

Quinn ... I think a combination of prior injuries and the move to the 3-4 has really reduced his effectiveness. With regard to the injuries, it makes me wonder if he could still be effective even in a 4-3 such as GW's D. Meanwhile, Longacre seems to be making the most of the opportunity of the snaps he's taking from Quinn ... which means Robert's days here are probably numbered. I will still root for him to turn it around as long as he puts on a Rams uniform, but at the same time I am no longer getting my hopes up.

 

[LACHAMP46]

You say Austin weakens the team. I'd bet most would say lanes open up even more because of him.

I think this is a huge part of the running game too....Don't understand why some don't see this.

P.S. That's not blasting you at all, we all have our opinions and I respect that.

Nope...you blasted him:argue:....copied it right there/\....don't apologize now.:rant:

Thought this was Quinn's best game @Rams43 ...saw several pressures that caused incompletions....
I always notice Tavon helping the running game...I am surprised he has NO passing routes...NONE...he's not long for the roster IMO...I guess anyone can be a decoy.

Sammy Watkins is confusing...I know we need this guy...and I'm surprised McVay can't seem to integrate him in the offense???

I think Goff is going through a lil something right now...struggling with some concepts...

 

[…..]

Here you see Robert Quinn's Dad talking to our own @Soul Surfer during the game yesterday.

I think Soul said something like "Hey I'm sorry I was down on Robert in that thread last week" and clearly Robert's Dad is saying "Hayyyy don't worry bout it brutha, we family and we got 11 million reasons to smile, let's go win us one"

And we did just that

 

[Adi]

Tavon is gone next season,teams have caught on to his plays, and he doesn't fit.

Quinn was great because of his edge speed , he doesn't have that anymore. However he has been ok in stopping the run, just lacks that speed to get to the qb . Also gone next year

Watkins is a great talent but seems to have a poor attitude and doesn't separate like I thought be would. He has had 2 of the better corners in the league shadowing him the last 2 games so I'm not giving up . He does demand double teams and make it easier for other.
He has had enough time to learn the playbook, SHOW US WHAT YOU GOT SAMMY !! ooor he might be gone also lol

 

[Jacobarch]

I think most NFL GMs would drag their balls across hot coals to have those 3 players as their problems.

Tavon is impacting the running game with the threat of the jet - its plain as day to see. Is he a value on his contract? No - but he is very well worth having on the field.

Sammy is eating up the other teams top CB and attracting safety help. This is why Woods is so involved - the Rams are taking what the D is making available. They aren't playing fantasy football out there - they are moving the chains.

Quinn is getting pressures - a lot of them. Forcing the QB to get rid of the ball quickly is one of the things that makes this defense go. Sacks are obviously important, but pressures have real value.

I don't understand why people are having a hard time seeing this. It's very obvious that cooper couldn't do what TA does on the jet sweet or reverse. Teams know that if you give TA any open field he has a chance to take it to the house. I can't say the same about coop.

Quinn is playing a new position he's starting to play better and better every week. His pressures are outstanding and teams are double teaming him. I saw it plenty yesterday, a TE would chip him on passing downs. He was also the reason for about 3 sacks yesterday. Bortles had to step up in the pocket because of Quinn and led to sack with our DT's.

I think ya'll need to chill on the TA and Quinn post, not every player is going to be performing at a probowl level at all times. You have to give Quinn until the end of the season to see how he settles in to his position, he's getting better and better every week, there's no reason to believe that he wont continue to grow in this defense.

 

[OC_Ram]

Could Watkins be shell shocked by his concussion? He doesn't seem to like the middle and I only see him thrown at for deep side line stuff?

you might be on to something here. It may take some time but I think it will fade away.

 

[LesBaker]

How many millions are you willing to pay a decoy?

It depends and that's an honest answer.

If he's taking two defenders away it's valuable, especially when it's someone like Watkins that can also get yards too and isn't just a decoy.

 

[Jacobarch]

It depends and that's an honest answer.

If he's taking two defenders away it's valuable, especially when it's someone like Watkins that can also get yards too and isn't just a decoy.

Bingo! He's getting double covered most of the game. Teams are taking him away. Which is why Woods an co. are getting open.

 

[12intheBox]

Rams first sack of the day - Quinn rips past the left tackle to the outside and the RB has to step in to take Quinn. 2 blockers eaten leaving a 4 on 4 situation. AD99 eats up two blockers of his own and Barwin is left to swing around the middle for the sack. Quinn doesn't get a stat, his name isn't called - but he was a big part of that sack.

And as for the decoy business - not anyone can be a decoy - the defense has to repsect you to draw their attention. That is why Tavon's fake reverse gets more movement than other players - because he will rip off 10 yards before you have your shoulders turned. Sammy is a deep threat - if they don't respect him deep - its 6.

 

[Ramon Ram]

Here you see Robert Quinn's Dad talking to our own @Soul Surfer during the game yesterday.

I think Soul said something like "Hey I'm sorry I was down on Robert in that thread last week" and clearly Robert's Dad is saying "Hayyyy don't worry bout it brutha, we family and we got 11 million reasons to smile, let's go win us one"

And we did just that


View attachment 22133

I was standing just to the left of this photo when taken. A bit unnerved by the fact that though he stood during national anthem he was the only fan I could see around who didn't remove his hat though the announcer asked everyone to. Nice tribute to all prior to anthem that covered the gamut so take your hat off Pop Quinn.

Watkins didn't run his deep route all the way through on the deep middle ball in the 3rd qtr or he could/should have caught it. It just takes that little extra effort. Not for lack of effort but I don't think Kupp completed his route last week or he would have had an easier catch attempt to win that game.

It's the little things

 

[LesBaker]

Here you see Robert Quinn's Dad talking to our own @Soul Surfer during the game yesterday.

I think Soul said something like "Hey I'm sorry I was down on Robert in that thread last week" and clearly Robert's Dad is saying "Hayyyy don't worry bout it brutha, we family and we got 11 million reasons to smile, let's go win us one"

And we did just that


View attachment 22133

Can you tell us who is who? Otherwise how can we tell?

 

[Corbin]

How many millions are you willing to pay a decoy?

The amount the dumb shit who extended him did for now I guess! Lol One thing I wish Fisher didn’t do before he left if I could choose.

 

[Scirca]

I'ma go ahead and say I don't like Sammy Watkins, I think he is problem, and runs super lazy routes, and half asses his effort at times. I don't expect him to be with us after this season.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Quinn is playing a new position he's starting to play better and better every week. His pressures are outstanding and teams are double teaming him. I saw it plenty yesterday, a TE would chip him on passing downs. He was also the reason for about 3 sacks yesterday. Bortles had to step up in the pocket because of Quinn and led to sack with our DT's.

This is what I saw yesterday as well

 

[…..]

I'ma go ahead and say I don't like Sammy Watkins, I think he is problem, and runs super lazy routes, and half asses his effort at times. I don't expect him to be with us after this season.

You might be right if these results continue. His body language is telling a story, that's for sure .

I think it's also possible that we get it turned around. I'm 50/50 right now, allowing for both outcomes. I know one thing, if I'm McVay, I'm having Goff throw to Watkins after practice. Then make em eat together. Put their lockers together. Make them stand in a corner and hold hands like my mom used to do with me and my brother.

Joking on most of that but you get the point. I place some of this on Goff too. Watkins has been wide the fk open on intermediate routes. Goff is NOT looking his way or seeing him when going through his progressions.

Jared can wow the world as a leader of men if he steps up and gets Sammy to do some individual work outs and develop some sort of chemistry.

If Sammy was running that route where Woods stopped inexplicitly and turned into the defender and fumbled, Sammy takes that to the house. Woods is so used to being in tight space that he had no idea how wide open he was, but Sammy would have known. Why not mix these formations up a little where Sammy is on the right? I don't think the Rams are ready for that just yet. Whenever I see Sammy right, it's usually part of the trips package.

 

[1maGoh]

Rams first sack of the day - Quinn rips past the left tackle to the outside and the RB has to step in to take Quinn. 2 blockers eaten leaving a 4 on 4 situation. AD99 eats up two blockers of his own and Barwin is left to swing around the middle for the sack. Quinn doesn't get a stat, his name isn't called - but he was a big part of that sack.

And as for the decoy business - not anyone can be a decoy - the defense has to repsect you to draw their attention. That is why Tavon's fake reverse gets more movement than other players - because he will rip off 10 yards before you have your shoulders turned. Sammy is a deep threat - if they don't respect him deep - its 6.

Not directed at you, but you mentioned both Watkins and Austin so I quoted you.

If Watkins is taking up 2 defenders and Austin is talking up 2 defenders, that only leaves 7 defenders for the rest of the team. How is it then that with these two super decoys we can't score on every play?

I don't think a successful decoy has to be able to get a TD on any given play. They really only need to be able to get a solid 8 to 10 yards. Or more if you forget about them. I think Pharaoh Cooper could probably do that on the jet sweeps. Let them ignore him and we'll take the first down and more. Or if they're paying attention we'll take the second and short. We'll sustain drives and run time of the clock.

I don't think P Cooper can do 100%of what Austin can do. But he can probably do 80% and all that in addition to what he's already doing. The less variety of things Austin is capable of doing the less of a decoy he becomes. And that's kind of where it is now I think. He's becoming one dimensional. The fake is now the standard and the actual play involving him is the decoy.