Washington who?

[RAGRam]

Question. Where is the line? If a kid is getting verbally bullied at school, should he just man up and get over his butt hurt? And if he does decide to go to a teacher and the teacher tells the bully to stop is that an infringement of the bully's right to free speech?

Honestly I'm genuinely curious and not trying to be deliberately obtuse.

 

[Athos]

People talk about wanting freedom a lot and equal rights. Eh rightfully so I guess. To me there is real freedom in allowing people to dislike me, laugh at me or flat out try to humiliate me. By my "not responding" to it in the way they expect, I gain power and they look weak. That's freedom!

That's basically saying Hate Speech is perfectly fine though and people should just "suck it up."

No thanks. There's being thin-skinned....and then there's true, blue, verbal abuse.

You know what I'M fucking sick of? People thinking violence with words doesn't exist or that it can inspire even more hate, more violence, or more bottling shit up until it reaches the point where it explodes.

Suck it up you say? How about those fuckers just shut the fuck up in the 1st place?

Pussification?

No, this world is way too often run by a bunch of bastardized assholes who want to control people through anyway possible and if anyone is offended, IT'S THEIR FAULT? If they're hurt by it, it's their fault? If it screws them up emotionally, it's their fault?

I'm sorry. WHAT?

Fuck that kind of world. Walking away from it is perfectly fine, but don't be a deluded ass in thinking that strategy is going to work every time for every person on this GD planet as if we're all bloody robots who think the same, respond the same, and feel the fucking same.

Maybe if people actually THOUGHT being they spoke, we wouldn't have this issue in the first place. And just people one group owns it as a way to take it back, doesn't really give, imo, people the right to suddenly use that word(s) all willy nilly.

It's doesn't matter. There are polls out there...with results.

Ahh...polls. How's that saying go? You can make stats say w/e the hell you want em to say.

-----

Sorry if I went overboard. Shit like this pisses me off. But maybe that's because I fancy myself a writer. And I know the inherent power of words......and they evil they can propagate when people just don't give a shit.

 

[VegasRam]

I hate the whole "PC" thing.

I also find all the whining about it annoying too though.

Everybody needs to quit being a bitch.

Amen brother. (Oops - just pissed off the aetheistsalm.

badnews - for as many times as I've looked at that pic (your avatar), it STILL looks like the ref's throwing a punch.
Knowing that can't be the case, still can't figure out what else he was doing.

 

[beej]

hat's basically saying Hate Speech is perfectly fine though and people should just "suck it up."

No thanks. There's being thin-skinned....and then there's true, blue, verbal abuse.

You know what I'M freaking sick of? People thinking violence with words doesn't exist or that it can inspire even more hate, more violence, or more bottling crap up until it reaches the point where it explodes.

Suck it up you say? How about those fuckers just shut the freak up in the 1st place?

for one thing I'm just talking about what I do. you can do what you want. But did I say suck it up?


And I hear what you're saying. The thing is, I don't have any control over what some other person says, does, or thinks. The only person I have any control over once-so-ever is myself. And quite honestly, I don't feel like spending the time trying to force everyone else to think like I do or act like I would. so whatcha gonna do?

but just step through it.
If someone uses derogatory language, or hurls insults, or verbal abuse. What are they trying to accomplish? to make you mad or belittle you?

If you get mad or feel belittled and they know it, then what they just did worked, right?

so what are they going to do then? probably do it again right?

so what if we fine the hell out of them or throw them in Jail. will that fix anything? will that stop their prejudice?

If you want to win people over, you can try the Jackie Robinson method or you can try the black panthers method. see what works to change hearts and minds.

it's not being passive, it's being mentally superior at their own game.

 

[Rynie]

They should just change their name to foreskins. That's what they are; the useless penis skin. Those fans mark their Super Bowl on the calendar every year; when they play us.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Question. Where is the line? If a kid is getting verbally bullied at school, should he just man up and get over his butt hurt? And if he does decide to go to a teacher and the teacher tells the bully to stop is that an infringement of the bully's right to free speech?

Honestly I'm genuinely curious and not trying to be deliberately obtuse.

I believe bullying is already not protected as free speech by the first amendment, so telling a bully to stop would not violate any rights.

 

[Corbin]

So what you're telling me is that only the white man finds it offensive for the Natives?

Nope, just a small handful of Native Americans.

I started calling them the ForeSkins a long time ago.

And will continue to do so long after this matter is settled.

Athos this post is BS and I will not take it! My foreskin will contact his lawyer and you will feel his wrath! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

 

[badnews]

Amen brother. (Oops - just pissed off the aetheistsalm.

badnews - for as many times as I've looked at that pic (your avatar), it STILL looks like the ref's throwing a punch.
Knowing that can't be the case, still can't figure out what else he was doing.

I know right? Haha

I only vaguely remember the play, but the image sums up the last decade for the Rams.
The play was a Ken Darby run or catch in the middle of the field that actually gained a few yards, then in a sadly hilarious fashion (or was it hilariously sad?) Darby, runs into a referee who refused to move, Darby can't juke the ref and is arm barred violently by the ref, who was really just trying to protect himself, but done in a way that looked bad. Both the Rams and the refs looked bad.

I'm sure the play was stopped just short of a first down... because that's how it was.
We were getting our ass kicked by everyone, even the refs. Especially the refs...

 

[Athos]

Nope, just a small handful of Native Americans.


Athos this post is BS and I will not take it! My foreskin will contact his lawyer and you will feel his wrath! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Your foreskin's lawyer isn't Mr. Scrotum....is it?

 

[den-the-coach]

I've posted it once I will post it again, it will be the Washington Bravehearts when it's all said and done!

 

[JonRam99]

I've posted it once I will post it again, it will be the Washington Bravehearts when it's all said and done!

I like this. Where did this come from? adding the word "hearts" to "braves" gives it a nice, touchey-feeley nod to the PC crowd.
I think that if they wanted to abandon the indian warrior motif altogether, they could call themselves the "Hogs" for real & do a Razorbacks theme. ...or, maybe that's just because I'm a Razorbacks fan???

 

[Ramhusker]

I've posted it once I will post it again, it will be the Washington Bravehearts when it's all said and done!

I think this too and it's not a bad name at all. I'm sure it's more principle now to Snyder's group than anything but the change would probably be very profitable after the initial cost and once the legion of pissed Skins fans get over it. I see both sides I guess. Hell, I bought a "fighting whities" t-shirt from the University of Northern Colorado intramural basketball team a few years back. The team, made up mostly of native Americans, had come up with the t-shirts in protest of teams named after Indians. Boy, the looks I got wearing that thing. People wouldn't ask what it was about. They'd just jump to their own agenda-driven conclusions.

 

[Ramhusker]

That's basically saying Hate Speech is perfectly fine though and people should just "suck it up."

No thanks. There's being thin-skinned....and then there's true, blue, verbal abuse.

You know what I'M freaking sick of? People thinking violence with words doesn't exist or that it can inspire even more hate, more violence, or more bottling crap up until it reaches the point where it explodes.

Suck it up you say? How about those fuckers just shut the freak up in the 1st place?

Pussification?

No, this world is way too often run by a bunch of bastardized assholes who want to control people through anyway possible and if anyone is offended, IT'S THEIR FAULT? If they're hurt by it, it's their fault? If it screws them up emotionally, it's their fault?

I'm sorry. WHAT?

freak that kind of world. Walking away from it is perfectly fine, but don't be a deluded ass in thinking that strategy is going to work every time for every person on this GD planet as if we're all bloody robots who think the same, respond the same, and feel the freaking same.

Maybe if people actually THOUGHT being they spoke, we wouldn't have this issue in the first place. And just people one group owns it as a way to take it back, doesn't really give, imo, people the right to suddenly use that word(s) all willy nilly.



Ahh...polls. How's that saying go? You can make stats say w/e the hell you want em to say.

-----

Sorry if I went overboard. crap like this pisses me off. But maybe that's because I fancy myself a writer. And I know the inherent power of words......and they evil they can propagate when people just don't give a crap.

My favorite saying goes, "Figures don't lie, but liars figure!"

 

[jrry32]

Well, Redskin is a derogatory term for Native Americans. It's equilivent to the N word to African Americans.

What I don't agree with is forcing the team to change the name. They should come up with a new name and be given plenty of time to do so and implement the change. But if the court rules, then it's part of the American justice system. You have to respect it.

They aren't being forced to change their name. It's their choice. They just don't get the federal trademark protections if they don't change it.(assuming they don't win on appeal)

I got a text from my buddy today saying a federal court ruled the Redskins name as offensive to Indians, and they will be changing the name soon. Anyone have any info on this?

Personally, I could not be more sick of this kindergarten country we live in. Everybody gets offended by every little thing now. If I was a teacher the only class I would teach is how not to be a baby back bitch 101.

I'm sorry, dude, I'm not trying to offend but I probably will. But...which is worse? The people that are offended by "everything" or the people that spend their time complaining about what other people are offended by?(as if there's some sort of objective way of evaluating what should be offensive or not)

 

[Mackeyser]

I'll just repeat what I said in a related thread related to Goodell and this issue. Below is my response...

Yeah... um... this is just me talking, but I'm glad he didn't say what you wanted him to say.

Several things. Toxicity can pollute something in dilutions that are rather small. Certain things are so toxic that they can be poisonous in dilutions in the PPT or parts per trillion or even PPQ or parts per quadrillion. Exceedingly small amounts. The point is that pollution of something good or pure doesn't take a LOT to create a toxic environment. So the fact that "only a few players" have this problem doesn't in any way diminish that it has created a toxic atmosphere. It has. With respect to Domestic Violence, even as it's been reduced substantially over the last 20 years, it's disgustingly common. If you have not been affected by it, then that makes you blessed. It doesn't mitigate the seriousness of the problem world-wide, let alone all across our country. And that problem exists in the NFL, an entertainment venue which exists on an unfair plane of judgment as does all entertainment. So, I don't want the media to get off the NFL's back. If anything, I want the suck up, boot-licking, ass-kissing sports reporters to not be afraid to actually engage in journalism when the time comes even if that means *gasp* speaking truth to power.

Secondly, and this is just me... This is my hat.

I wear it every day. I wore it to the ROD tailgate in Tampa. My dad gave it to me. Both he and I served in the Navy and have Seneca and Lenape heritage. I've been to the pow-wows, and my first time I danced in the circle to the drums with my young son in my arms (he's 22 now) was one of the most spiritual moments in my life. I get my Native heritage from my grandfather who's probably the best man I've ever known. I carry his driver's license in my wallet as it's the only picture of him I could find after he passed. I say this because... I've really thought about it and the Washington name offends...me. I've never, ever tried to speak for anyone else on this and I've talked to dozens of native peoples from many nations who either have strong feelings on one side or the other or really don't care.

But, for me. I wear this hat every day. I care. It says I served my country. I have Native ancestry. And I'm proud of both. That Washington name... has a hurtful history.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion. Just understand that for some of us, this is more than fodder for a forum rant.

/end post

 

[jrry32]

I wear it every day. I wore it to the ROD tailgate in Tampa. My dad gave it to me. Both he and I served in the Navy and have Seneca and Lenape heritage. I've been to the pow-wows, and my first time I danced in the circle to the drums with my young son in my arms (he's 22 now) was one of the most spiritual moments in my life. I get my Native heritage from my grandfather who's probably the best man I've ever known. I carry his driver's license in my wallet as it's the only picture of him I could find after he passed. I say this because... I've really thought about it and the Washington name offends...me. I've never, ever tried to speak for anyone else on this and I've talked to dozens of native peoples from many nations who either have strong feelings on one side or the other or really don't care.

But, for me. I wear this hat every day. I care. It says I served my country. I have Native ancestry. And I'm proud of both. That Washington name... has a hurtful history.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion. Just understand that for some of us, this is more than fodder for a forum rant.

/end post

Mack, I appreciate you putting this out there. @Legatron4, this is what I mean. From all our discussions of football, you seem like a thoughtful, articulate, and intelligent guy. I just think you're missing the boat on this one.

I think the problem here is similar to the problem of ethnocentrism. You're judging whether something should be offensive through your perspective of the world. But you have to keep in mind that your perspective isn't the only perspective and you haven't had the same experiences of many others out there. Your perspective, like my perspective, and like everyone else's, is limited. That's why I just can't agree with your rant. It puts you in the position of being the moral authority on what should and shouldn't be offensive. And that's just not something you can be. That's not something any one person can be. Because what's not offensive to you could be offensive to someone else. And they could have very good reasons why that thing is offensive. Reasons that you might agree with if you stopped and gave them a chance to explain.

The government flying the Confederate flag and the Redskins name may or may not be offensive to you.(I saw similar rants to yours on the Confederate flag issue...although, I have no idea what your stance is on that) But how can you tell a black Southerner or a Native American that it shouldn't be offensive to them? What makes you an authority on what should and shouldn't offend them?

I must disagree with you, Legatron, I'm proud that our country is standing up and being honest about things that are wrong rather than pretending they are okay. I'm glad people are being honest about intolerance and trying to stamp it out. It's how you bring about progress. That should be lauded. Now, people can go overboard but that's a risk with anything. You might think they're going overboard here but you have to consider the fact that "redskin" is defined as a PEJORATIVE by the dictionary.

People can rant about political correctness all the want but I don't think it's simply political correctness not celebrate hateful, offensive words. It's just basic human decency. And this is coming from a person that was on the other side of this issue until recently.(I didn't think the Redskins should change their team name)

 

[-X-]

Doesn't offend people, does offend people, doesn't even register with people. Those are basically the demographics. The bottom line, now, is that Snyder is going to HAVE to change the name due to sudden public outrage. Some of that outrage (and I don't care what anyone thinks) is completely and utterly fueled by sheep. Sheep who simply have to come down on a side even if they don't believe in it 100%. Sheep who meandered around in their lives not caring about this particular issue ... at all. But now that it's out in the open, and there are sides to take, and they can use their anonymous voice on the internet, they're suddenly the most ardent supporters of the cause. Why? Because they can. And if this issue fell off the public radar, for whatever reason, those same people would simply let it die. They wouldn't further the agenda, they wouldn't write their Congressman, they wouldn't protest, they wouldn't boycott, they'd simply forget about it. Those people are useless.

If you're legitimately offended, always were, and always will be, then you have a say.
If you're not offended, never will be, and never were, then you have a say.
If you suddenly want to jump into the ring, oppose it, but you never even cared before, then go fuck yourself.

 

[Corbin]

Your foreskin's lawyer isn't Mr. Scrotum....is it?

We by a freak chance of nature it is! Maybe we can come to a settlement? lol

The government flying the Confederate flag and the Redskins name may or may not be offensive to you.(I saw similar rants to yours on the Confederate flag issue...although, I have no idea what your stance is on that) But how can you tell a black Southerner or a Native American that it shouldn't be offensive to them? What makes you an authority on what should and shouldn't offend them?
)

See this is where I'm divided on topics like this. I can see why either flag or name could be taken offensive but on the other hand ANYTHING could be taken offensive due to BS Political Correctness such as the Saints name oppressing Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims, and Jews, etc.

Redskin's is a name even used by Natives back in the day which is a fact. Were they calling themselves the African American version of N***er back then? No.
The confederate flag was the flag and symbol of separation from the rest of the US and believed a variety of things (one being slavery) that caused the separation.
Great Britain would land/take over a country/demographic region and use it to drain the resources to fund their empire and some could say it was a form of slavery, does anyone say the Union Jack is offensive and needs to be changed or removed? No.

Everything can or does have a bad history (Catholic Church) but does that mean people should go crazy with PC because of that? Because if that's the case women and femimales need to start boycotting the Catholic churches for the Witch torturing/killings of 100's if not possibly millions of women.

 

[Corbin]

If you're legitimately offended, always were, and always will be, then you have a say.
If you're not offended, never will be, and never were, then you have a say.
If you suddenly want to jump into the ring, oppose it, but you never even cared before, then go freak yourself.

And Finally if you don't give a shit comment intermittedly on the subject on a ROD form

 

[den-the-coach]

they could call themselves the "Hogs" for real & do a Razorbacks theme. ...or, maybe that's just because I'm a Razorbacks fan???

But it does not fit with their fight song and Braveheart embraces the heritage and displaces a name that caused many heartache.

Hail to the Bravehearts, Hail Victory, Braves on the Warpath, Fight for old D.C.