Trading up into the top half of round 2

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kurtfaulk

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.

To tell you the truth I'd be happy with the rams to leave the 2nd round with a good centre and ilber.

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FarNorth

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I know conventional wisdom around here is to trade down - but that would be a mistake in my view. We have the draft capital to pick 3 or 4 potential starters at positions of need, including a potential pro-bowl talent at the top of round 2

Agree completely.

There has been a lot of discussion about trading down which I don’t much agree with. One way to explain why is to look at what the Rams did last year. Essentially the Rams traded down from 1st round No. 31, then down, then down, then up, to end up with 1 second and 3 third round picks. They landed in a position very similar to the picks they have now. However, our two second round picks this year are significantly higher than the second and top third last year.

What’s interesting was the strategy (as explained at the time in a post draft article on the Rams site https://www.therams.com/news/inside-the-draft-room-four-trades-four-picks-on-day-2).

First, Snead and McVay wanted multiple picks in the top 100. “Both Snead and head coach Sean McVay referred to selecting multiple players in the top 100 as one of Los Angeles' primary objectives in this year's draft. As Snead put it, Los Angeles had been able to acquire solid, starting-caliber players like wide receiver Cooper Kupp and safety John Johnson in that range recently, and felt they could draft the same kind of quality individuals.”

Second, the Rams had identified Rapp and Henderson as the top players they hoped to get with their two highest picks. They rolled the dice on trading down to 61 to get Rapp (his slow 40 after an injury caused his stock to drop), then traded up to get Henderson at pick 70 in exchange for picks 94 and 97.

In short, Snead and McVay were going after multiple top 100 picks but even more so after impact players. I expect them to follow the same approach this year.

Last year trading down with our 1st made sense for this strategy. The major difference now is that we already have the picks in hand for the same approach, with no need to trade down. We also have two higher picks in the second in a year where outstanding prospects at two or three positions we need seem likely to be available. Nor do we have an obvious way to add more top 100 picks unless we trade a player for a pick. What this presents instead is an opportunity to more or less use the picks we have for impact or best available players.

Of course, Snead loves to maneuver for minor advantage, and could roll the dice as he did for Rapp and others. (I personally hope he doesn’t unless he’s really careful.) Or he could trade up for a really good player.

There is another reason this is a good strategy. The Rams have lost three 1st round Pro Bowl players this offseason: Gurley, Cooks, and Fowler. We’re not going to replace them with another sixth round pick. We need to use the picks we have to get the best players we can if we want to continue to have a championship contending roster.

Here’s how our picks compare last year as completed after trades to now. Pretty similar but more high end opportunity in the second this year.

2019:
Round 2, No. 61 (Taylor Rapp)
Round 3, No. 70 (Darrell Henderson)
Round 3, No. 79 (David Long)
Round 3, No. 97 (Bobby Evans)
Round 4, No. 134 (Greg Gaines) DT
Round 5, No. 169 (David Edwards)
Round 7, No. 243 (Nick Scott)
Round 7, No. 251 (Dakota Allen)

2020:
Round 2, No. 52
Round 2, No. 57
Round 3, No. 84
Round 3, No. 104
Round 4, No. 126
Round 6, No. 199
Round 7, No. 234
 

Neil039

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Rarely do you find a starting RB post draft FA. We have enough draft captial to add one come Friday night (Day 2). But I am with you, and hope we can add a OLmen that can starter in year 1 though its reporting that most if not all prospects will need some time before starting.
The two most recent success stories at undrafted RB are Priest Holmes and Arian Foster. You're right it doesn't happen often. I'd love for it to happen for the Rams but breathing is way more important than holding my breathe...lol
 

PressureD41

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Ya I want meat & potatoes in RD 2, THEN go skill in RD 3
 

Corbin

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Your chart does kinda prove my point :)

I think you might be exaggerating the only time he has moved up.

As I said, we can move up without losing picks (y)

We do have the ammo to move around in order to take players at different spots

I agree with Memphis above - though I am not as high on the EDGE players. I see RB WR and OT as positions where there maybe great value in trading up a few spots

I sent you a bet and put your money where your mouth is! Or ROD dollars! :D Bragging rights for the year on the line.


I’d bet you a 12 pack but UK customs are asses to ship anything through, also you’d get taxed! :(

I miss Carlsberg :(
 

jrry32

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Trading up for the right player is fine with me. Trading up for a HB? No bueno.
 

FrantikRam

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I'd be fine trading up if they really like someone.

And I know that the original trade proposed was 52 and 57 for 41 and 74 - meaning we would not lose a pick. But generally, I think they prefer trading down for this simple reason:

We're a good team.

Darrell Henderson, David Long and Greg Gaines, SJD, Obo, Ebukam, Allen and Noteboom - see what all these guys have in common over the past three drafts? They barely played as rookies and all were drafted in the 3rd round or later.

Obviously we need to make draft picks based on how good you project someone to be - but at the same time, when they drafted all of these guys, they were penciled in as future starters or contributors the second we drafted them.

Because we are a good team, I believe they actually value quantity over quality - and it makes sense. Because when you start paying guys top end money, you need more players on rookie contracts to serve as, to steal an NBA term, "role players".

I expect that we will draft at least 8 players, and if I had to be on a specific number, I'd go with 9 this year.
 

TheTackle

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Agree completely.

There has been a lot of discussion about trading down which I don’t much agree with. One way to explain why is to look at what the Rams did last year. Essentially the Rams traded down from 1st round No. 31, then down, then down, then up, to end up with 1 second and 3 third round picks. They landed in a position very similar to the picks they have now. However, our two second round picks this year are significantly higher than the second and top third last year.

What’s interesting was the strategy (as explained at the time in a post draft article on the Rams site https://www.therams.com/news/inside-the-draft-room-four-trades-four-picks-on-day-2).

First, Snead and McVay wanted multiple picks in the top 100. “Both Snead and head coach Sean McVay referred to selecting multiple players in the top 100 as one of Los Angeles' primary objectives in this year's draft. As Snead put it, Los Angeles had been able to acquire solid, starting-caliber players like wide receiver Cooper Kupp and safety John Johnson in that range recently, and felt they could draft the same kind of quality individuals.”

Second, the Rams had identified Rapp and Henderson as the top players they hoped to get with their two highest picks. They rolled the dice on trading down to 61 to get Rapp (his slow 40 after an injury caused his stock to drop), then traded up to get Henderson at pick 70 in exchange for picks 94 and 97.

In short, Snead and McVay were going after multiple top 100 picks but even more so after impact players. I expect them to follow the same approach this year.

Last year trading down with our 1st made sense for this strategy. The major difference now is that we already have the picks in hand for the same approach, with no need to trade down. We also have two higher picks in the second in a year where outstanding prospects at two or three positions we need seem likely to be available. Nor do we have an obvious way to add more top 100 picks unless we trade a player for a pick. What this presents instead is an opportunity to more or less use the picks we have for impact or best available players.

Of course, Snead loves to maneuver for minor advantage, and could roll the dice as he did for Rapp and others. (I personally hope he doesn’t unless he’s really careful.) Or he could trade up for a really good player.

There is another reason this is a good strategy. The Rams have lost three 1st round Pro Bowl players this offseason: Gurley, Cooks, and Fowler. We’re not going to replace them with another sixth round pick. We need to use the picks we have to get the best players we can if we want to continue to have a championship contending roster.

Here’s how our picks compare last year as completed after trades to now. Pretty similar but more high end opportunity in the second this year.

2019:
Round 2, No. 61 (Taylor Rapp)
Round 3, No. 70 (Darrell Henderson)
Round 3, No. 79 (David Long)
Round 3, No. 97 (Bobby Evans)
Round 4, No. 134 (Greg Gaines) DT
Round 5, No. 169 (David Edwards)
Round 7, No. 243 (Nick Scott)
Round 7, No. 251 (Dakota Allen)

2020:
Round 2, No. 52
Round 2, No. 57
Round 3, No. 84
Round 3, No. 104
Round 4, No. 126
Round 6, No. 199
Round 7, No. 234

That is a great piece of work my friend, thanks for sharing
 

TheTackle

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TheTackle

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I sent you a bet and put your money where your mouth is! Or ROD dollars! :D Bragging rights for the year on the line.


I’d bet you a 12 pack but UK customs are asses to ship anything through, also you’d get taxed! :(

I miss Carlsberg :(

I'm in London. No need to risk your dollars, brother. Perhaps we should meet for a beer to watch our Rams and talk football (y)
 

TheTackle

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Yeah but I don’t see the running back being a big factor moving forward in this offense to warrant that high of a pick when more essential needs are there.

Even though our offense flows through the run? You can't use play action effectively without a strong running game.

That said, a great OL can make even an average back look great - see CJ Anderson for details. Is that what you want us to target?
 

So Ram

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Absolute NO to trading up. You never know what you are getting, and two at-bats are better than one. IE - see Greg Robinson. Plus the Rams could use more players, not less.

he was not traded up for & was an absolute gift pick.
Agree that should have been the gift that kept giving. They traded the #2 overall to get that pick back. Could have had all those picks & had RG111.
I think he could have fit in after Washington. Then he got hurt again in Cleveland. It would be nice to see RG111 get a chance at some point again,but not at L. Jackson expense.
 

So Ram

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Even though our offense flows through the run? You can't use play action effectively without a strong running game.

That said, a great OL can make even an average back look great - see CJ Anderson for details. Is that what you want us to target?

that statement is so crazy to me. The Rams are only missing Roger Saffold &
John Sullivan . Gurley just got CUT ??
 

TheTackle

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that statement is so crazy to me. The Rams are only missing Roger Saffold &
John Sullivan . Gurley just got CUT ??

What statement? There was more than one ;)

I was replying to another poster. Not endorsing the view that losing Gurley doesn’t matter, it does - a lot
 

Merlin

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Talk about him being a G all you want, but I think Noteboom takes over for Whit at some point.
I don't know anyone here who thinks he's an OG after last season. To include myself. In fact I don't think he's a LT either, I think he's a career depth player.
 

ramfan46

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The two most recent success stories at undrafted RB are Priest Holmes and Arian Foster. You're right it doesn't happen often. I'd love for it to happen for the Rams but breathing is way more important than holding my breathe...lol
Phillip Lindsay in Denver went undrafted. Rams found Benny Cunningham undrafted the same year they grabbed Stacy in the 5th round. You can find a back that has a good role using round 4-UDFA capital.
 

TheTackle

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Phillip Lindsay in Denver went undrafted. Rams found Benny Cunningham undrafted the same year they grabbed Stacy in the 5th round. You can find a back that has a good role using round 4-UDFA capital.

Sorry fella, but Benny Cunningham played on a terrible rams team. His career nosedived after he left the rams. He was out of the League 2 years later. Looking at his career kinda makes the point. Phillip Lindsay is one of life's unicorns

Agreed, we might draft a RB that has a good role, using round 4-UDFA capital - perhaps on teams and as a returner to start their career

If you are not familiar with Jonathan Ward, I think he would be awesome on teams and could develop into a star on offense https://fullpresscoverage.com/2020/01/16/2020-raiders-draft-prospect-rb1-jonathan-ward/
 
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Malibu

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This really is a tough off season for me, because every mock when it's the Rams pick it usually is a different player and different position from C, RB, OLB, T, G, WR it's crazy. Truthfully why it is so hard I sort of like 90% of the picks. Each has merit.

Which gets me to my next point do we move up this year for that one great player? I would only move up for a couple players at most one of the 2 top RBs maybe and not really even sure on that, the #2 or #3 OLB that falls (Murray or Queens), but that seems really unlikely because NO seems like a lock at 24 to take one of them. I would absolutely not trade up for a WR I personally would not take one period and address way more pressing needs.

Then the question is are we really that one great player away meaning can we survive losing minimally one draft pick to move up. Tough call not sure anyone is worth moving up for and here's why. Most likely one of the top 3- 4 RBs will be there at 52 imo. There is no ILB that we can trade up for it would cost too much and OLBs are second tier mainly and there are a bunch floating around 2/3 rounds. Ruiz at C seems like he may go ahead of #52 but is he worth trading up for when there are 3-4 other Centers?
Same with G there is no clear cut #1 Guard and personally I would take Muti in the 4th and take a chance on him (big injury red flags).

I still feel the co #1 priority with drafting a rangy strong ILB is we must upgrade the OL at G and C. I feel 2 of our first 4 picks should be those two positions. But at a minimum we need to come away with a RB, G, C, ILB, OLB and BU FS, CB that is a lot and that's assuming we can hope we have our our next LT in the roster and not sure we even do.

Every poster has different ideas what our priorities are and only Snead/McVay know the talent well enough to know if we are good at a position we as posters think is an issue. Like do we really need a WR, is the ILBs we have good enough will OBO/Polite emerge at OLB hard to say.

My glaring holes for me is losing Littleton and our OL and possibly thin at BU CB and S. I think we can find a RB. I think we are fine at WR.

I wouldn't trade up this year. I am not sure I would trade down unless it is a small trade down in later part of the 2nd round and we get a 4th or a 5th for it.

This is a tough and very telling draft. After it is over we will have a somewhat clearer picture what the FO thinks about certain positions.
 
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