Elmgrovegnome
Legend
No way. There have been better backs taken later. James was good but not great. He is not in the same class as Faulk, AP, Bo Jackson, etc.
I believe you are misremembering his NFL impact.
Todd Gurley: Would You?
- Thread starter Athos
- Start date
-
To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.
No way. There have been better backs taken later. James was good but not great. He is not in the same class as Faulk, AP, Bo Jackson, etc.
I believe you are misremembering his NFL impact.
In light of the Georgia RB being suspended I thought I would see where everyone stood on the subject. For me, you have to devise a system that allows these kids to get money.
They aren't allowed to work to get it, and if their parents do not have the financial means it means these guys who bring in millions of dollars are eating cafeteria food or noodles for dinner.
I think it has to be a based pay system. Every player from starting QB to back up Punter, it your on scholarship, you get paid the same. I'm not sure than non scholarship players aren't allowed to work, someone maybe clear that up.
I think the other issue is, if they go to a pay for play system, do the SEC teams get the same allowance as the Sunbelt? Do you make it incentive based? Based on the number of games you win/ you get into tiers? That would allow for added competition for recruits.
I'm not sure what the correct answer is, but I can tell ya, I'm not mad at a kid for taking $400 for signing autographs when I guarentee he has signed tons of shit for the university and they made bank.
They aren't allowed to work to get it, and if their parents do not have the financial means it means these guys who bring in millions of dollars are eating cafeteria food or noodles for dinner.
I think it has to be a based pay system. Every player from starting QB to back up Punter, it your on scholarship, you get paid the same. I'm not sure than non scholarship players aren't allowed to work, someone maybe clear that up.
I think the other issue is, if they go to a pay for play system, do the SEC teams get the same allowance as the Sunbelt? Do you make it incentive based? Based on the number of games you win/ you get into tiers? That would allow for added competition for recruits.
I'm not sure what the correct answer is, but I can tell ya, I'm not mad at a kid for taking $400 for signing autographs when I guarentee he has signed tons of shit for the university and they made bank.
Elmgrovegnome
Legend
Warner4Prez
Hall of Fame
The 1st round running back is just not the way to invest picks anymore. If your team is built and missing a key component (Packers), then maybe. I just personally don't see a reason to take a RB that early. With the proliferation of the spread offense, there are just so many physical specimens out there with very little wear and tear, find a guy who measure favorably and teach him how to tote the rock.
Jerrick McKinnon would be a great example, Isaiah Crowell who the Browns are pretty excited about is another. Do they have the resume of Gurley, not even. But that might be more of a positive.
Jerrick McKinnon would be a great example, Isaiah Crowell who the Browns are pretty excited about is another. Do they have the resume of Gurley, not even. But that might be more of a positive.
I agree. We are scoring 30 points with a 3rd string QB and a perfectly good RB crew. Yet we can't hold on 3rd down, give up points. Seems like LB, safety, center, guard would be the way to go at this wayotoo early stage.
That's what I'm really hoping for myself. Linebacker is our biggest need, and offensive line is our second biggest. But this team has multiple needs still, and none of them so glaring that they will again be in a good position to take the best player available.
Sam Bradford isn't dead and Austin Davis has proven to be an excellent backup option in this system. Heck, as the season progresses, he may prove to be more value to our run first system than Bradford.
Joe Montana was taken in the 3rd round. Kurt Warner was a UDFA. Tom Brady was a 6th rounder. Does that mean taking a great but not elite QB in the first round is a poor decision? Better QBs have been taken later.
I didn't realize that a first could be "wasted" on a All Pro caliber player. Yes, I would. I'd also a waste a first on Steve Hutchinson Part II and Ed Reed Part II.
That's about the worst way to do it. The HB position is heavily reliant on skill...namely vision and decisiveness. If a guy doesn't have vision, he's not going to be successful. And it's not really a teachable skill.
The 1st Round (Insert Position Here) is just not the way to invest picks anymore argument can be flipped and used against any position. I don't think it's sound reasoning. Trust your board.
Elmgrovegnome
Legend
I think you misunderstand what I meant. In the present day where good backs are rarely taken in the first round I wouldn't take James in round 1. Was he good? Sure he was good but is he a great? Is he a name that comes to mind when anyone discusses great RBs? No. So if in the current era where good backs are commonly taken later in the draft, if I was going to choose a running back in round 1, then I would need to think he was an Adrian Peterson, Marshall Faulk, E.D. caliber back. What is Gurley? Is he Marshawn Lynch? or is he Edgerinn James? Can he carry a team or is just a really good player on a good team like James was with an elite QB and WRs?
I would redraft Hutchinson and Ed Reed in round 1 first overall, ditto for Faulk, Dickerson, Polamalu. But when you see so many good runningbacks playing well in the NFL today why 'waste' a first round pick on any runningback that is not hall of fame caliber? When you compared Gurley to James he suddenly didn't seem as good as the rest of the thread indicates. Now if you think Gurley is a better version of James? That is different.
Elmgrovegnome
Legend
The trouble with this is that I ate cafeteria food and noodles while I was in college and I didn't get a free education. I couldn't work because the time demands on my major were prohibitive. Maybe I could have worked if I chose not to sleep however I was in the studio till 2 or 3 most nights anyways.
Scholarship athletes are paid. They get a free education that is worth 100,000+ . My nephew just graduated and he has a $150,000 debt. I don't understand why the athletes need to be babied and treated better than the rest of the students. They can wait to earn their money just like any other college student and be thankful for what is given to them. Besides that they do get a spending stipend.
So you wouldn't take a RB who ran for the 11th most rushing yards and 19th most rushing TDs of all time in the first round? Seriously?
So I guess Steven Jackson almost certainly wasn't worth a first round pick then?
Elmgrovegnome
Legend
No not today. Good backs can be had later and with the evolution of the passing game backs are easier to plug into a system with great success.
lockdnram21
Legend
Receiver is becoming a strong part of the team and Quick is braking out. Why would we waste a pick on receiver? I would take Gurley though
I reapectfully disagree with your outlook here. While you ate cafeteria food and noodles, you chose not to work because of time constraints, and I completely understand, but it option was still there. If someone bought your dinner, or gave you a free tattoo or gave you $6 to sign your name, you wouldn't haven't it all taken from you. If you don't want to pay them, I can get that, but atleast allow them the option to work. A guy like Tim Tebow made UF MILLIONS of dollars, far more than his education cost, far more than every player that played on his teams educations costs. It, for me, comes down to quality of life for those 3-4 years I think. Even if they did as little as had private grocery stores for athletes where they were given so much to spend a day or week. I think something like that would work. I actually watched a documentary a few months back, can not remember the name, but they went deep into this. It really makes you take a step back. I used to say screw them as well. But now, I see it. They had Arian Foster on and he made no bones about it, he said he took money, he said you damn near have to.
I think people overestimate your odds in the first round. If you come away with Edgerrin James, you're not just doing well...you're doing amazingly.
Was Edgerrin James great? Yes. Is he a HOFer? Probably not. But he's close. 12,000+ rushing yards and 80 rushing TDs over his career. 15,000+ yards from scrimmage and 91 total TDs in his career. He put up 12,000+ yards from scrimmage and 75 TDs in his first 7 years in Indy.
Could Edgerrin James have carried a team in his prime? To the extent that any HB could carry a team, yes.
I'll go ahead and provide some data here. In the first round since the merger, there have been 197 players that were selected as a First Team All Pro(once or more). There have been a total of 1117 players selected in the first round.
That puts your chances of selecting an All Pro at 17.6%. Yea, I think you're doing AMAZING for yourself if you come away with an Edgerrin James in the first round.
So I couldn't disagree more with your assertions.
Guards are rarely taken in the first round. So I'm not sure how you can apply that logic here to HBs/James and not OGs/Hutchinson.
Are you really insinuating that you're wasting a pick on a player like James? I'm sure you remember guys like Jason Smith, Adam Carriker, Alex Barron, etc. right? Those are WASTED picks. You're not guaranteed a star in the first round.
When I compared Gurley to Edgerrin James he suddenly didn't seem as good? WHAT?
Edgerrin James's Average Season(Per 16) In Indianapolis(7 years)
365 carries
1538 yards
4.2 yards per carry
11 rushing TDs
59 receptions
473 yards
8.0 yards per reception
2 receiving TDs
That's an average of 2011 yards and 13 TDs a year.
Edgerrin James is not far off from being a HOFer. How could anyone be disappointed if Gurley ended up being a great HB like Edgerrin James? That's nuts. Prime Edge would be the best HB in the NFL if he were playing today(with Adrian Peterson on the bench right now).
Elmgrovegnome
Legend
You ignore that James was on a good team with two great WRs and arguably the best and smartest regular season QB ever. I could speculate that Zac Stacy could have done nearly as well in that situation. I don't think James excels on a team like SJ did over most of his career with no offensive line.
You miss my point though. Teams find good running backs in later rounds all the time. The league and draft has changed. I would take Demarco Murray in round 3 over Edgerinn James in round 1.
I also said that if you have Gurley rated far ahead of any other players on your board then sure, take him.
But if the Rams are staring at a great LB, FS, OG and C all rated in the same range as Gurley, taking the RB seems like it wouldn't be the best use of the first round pick, especially when they have three good RBs on the roster and teams find good RBs that fit their system all over the draft. San Diego signed a good one as an UDFA this year.
You miss my point though. Teams find good running backs in later rounds all the time. The league and draft has changed. I would take Demarco Murray in round 3 over Edgerinn James in round 1.
I also said that if you have Gurley rated far ahead of any other players on your board then sure, take him.
But if the Rams are staring at a great LB, FS, OG and C all rated in the same range as Gurley, taking the RB seems like it wouldn't be the best use of the first round pick, especially when they have three good RBs on the roster and teams find good RBs that fit their system all over the draft. San Diego signed a good one as an UDFA this year.
Alaskan Ram
Last Frontier Member
"zero tolerance" almost always fails as the plan for dealing with rule breakers.
Ha Ha was given a loan from a lower level coach to repair his car and had proof that he paid it back........Still suspended, that is asinine.
rules are rules eh?
Can't remember the article: a high school girl suspended, for receiving a call from a friend at a party who was too drunk to drive, she arrives to pick her up at the same time the cops show up. School has zero tolerance, she is suspended.
Zero tolerance leaves no room for common sense.
Gurley broke rules. It will be interesting what the investigation reveals.
Ha Ha was given a loan from a lower level coach to repair his car and had proof that he paid it back........Still suspended, that is asinine.
rules are rules eh?
Can't remember the article: a high school girl suspended, for receiving a call from a friend at a party who was too drunk to drive, she arrives to pick her up at the same time the cops show up. School has zero tolerance, she is suspended.
Zero tolerance leaves no room for common sense.
Gurley broke rules. It will be interesting what the investigation reveals.