Tim Walton Out

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Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
10,462
Name
Rich
I agree with this as well. I think if Williams has too much say he just throws the book at the QB at the expense of letting up some big plays. That has been Williams reputation since becoming a DC outside of Tennessee

Fisher, I think, will balance that out. Kind of like how the GSOT offense was much more balanced when Vermiel was the head coach. The two balanced each other out well
Now why'd ya have to go and say that broke,Martz kept Vermeil on the psychiatrists couch,if there was ANY limiting factor during that one year together it was Martz slowing his roll for the players to fully assimilate.
As far as Fisher slowing Williams roll ,I can buy that ,but Vermeil had been neutered and as far as the offense was concerned he was along for the ride like we all were
I attribute the change of balance in Martz offense to the physical decline of Marshal Faulk running
 
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Ky Ram

Pro Bowler
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Messages
1,918
I have 2 concerns.
  • 1) Do the Ram defensive players draw more ticky tack fouls with Williams at DC since the Saints Bountygate debacle
  • 2) Do the Ram defensive players respond with any apprehension do to Williams player relations reputation
1) more than they already draw?:sad: They don't need any help there. GW won't hurt the cause any more than any other DC would.
2) nope. Players play, coaches coach, winning cures all
 

LesBaker

Mr. Savant
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
17,460
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Les
Now why'd ya have to go and say that broke,Martz kept Vermeil on the psychiatrists couch,if there was ANY limiting factor during that one year together it was Martz slowing his roll for the players to fully assimilate.
As far as Fisher slowing Williams roll ,I can buy that ,but Vermeil had been neutered and as far as the offense was concerned he was along for the ride like we all were
I attribute the change of balance in Martz offense to the physical decline of Marshal Faulk running

Actually DV was very involved in the O from what I read. He would tell Martz very often to run or ass. He didn't decide what play but he often decided what type. He maintained balance. Faulk didn't decline until well after Warner was foolishly benched and that is the moment The Show was over.
 

CoachO

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
3,392
We have a difference of opinion on a few things, some of which, on scouting matters, are to be expected. But a few fall into a different category.

In the former case, you find it unlikely he has lost it. Again, if he looks the same this year as last, two years after the nebulous leg injury, would you at that point concede he may not be the same. Or do you need another two years? Three years?

When you say the following (see 1 & 2 below), I disagree at this point. If he can't play any more, history should mean nothing... you just said the following - "IF he isn't capable of performing, no one is saying he should still be here.".

I don't know how to reconcile THAT, with point #1, when you don't qualify it. THE ONLY CONSIDERATION or basis for whether he should be retained or not, is his ability to play, NOT history. Oherwise that is contradictory. If he can play, history doesn't matter. If he can't play, history doesn't matter (or shouldn't).

1) "He and Fisher have to much history, so, as I said before, it wont shock me for him to be brought back."

Later, after an exchange, you did add this qualifier ("if even for a look at training camp"). That is shifting the boundaries a bit from your previous statement. For me, the default assumption for "brought back" is retained, not having a look see. If you had said that initially, not only I wouldn't have questioned it, but being for it was implied in wanting Fisher to evaluate him to make the right call (though I did qualify it by alluding to the following - "There could be timing issues regarding when would be the best time cut or restructure him, if that is the directon they choose.").

2) "And yes, the history will have some bearing on whether they bring him back, if even for a look at training camp."

You said why would they address previous injuries (before the eye), and than, whether there were any or not? Not so fast, lets back up for a moment, because that is imo important enough to table PR talk for later, being a more substantive issue. Upthread you strongly implied thinking he had a lingering leg injury, on the basis of observing him not looking like he "had the jump of what he had the previous year", and radio people comments. Just for the record, for his sake, he better have had a lingering leg issue to explain his horrible performance. That could be cause for optimism. If he didn't have lingering leg injuries issues, that would seem to suggest as a corollary that he has hit the wall and is done (or why else would he have played so badly?).

Moving on, your PR argument (for not revealing previous injuries) doesn't make sense to me. The reason why it DOES make a difference either way, is that there ALREADY IS A PR STORM. Here we are talking about it and questioning it. Nobody is perfect, I don't think the fans will be calling for Fisher and Snead's head because they made a mistake (in retrospect, he DID make a mistake in not pulling him sooner, and it isn't a big secret, everybody knows it). People are smart enough to figure out for themselves the stated timeline doesn't fit. He was already terrible BEFORE the eye injury. Either he had a lingering leg (or SOME other) injury that caused his poor play, or he is done. IF their intent was to defuse bad PR, I don't agree that there thought process was to withold information from the fans in the hopes that saying nothing would cause less questioning of how they handled it, than if they had just simply said he had a leg injury but thought he could play throuh it, or it worsened durig the season. I don't know about you, but in the absence of any explanation, I'm questioning how they handled it MORE, not less. I might not, or IMO would be less likely to, with an explanation like the above.

Several times you have mention reasons why Finnegan could be back.

Young secondary. Again, if he can't play, it is irrelevant. And if he can, he would be back even if it was an intermediate age or old secondary, so age also irrelevant in that case. Now I'll qualify this and say if he can kinda, sorta play, and isn't as good as he was earlier in his career, but is better than the 2013 iteration (low bar there, if he isn't done and did have a lingering leg or some other kind of injury from 2012), than that might recommend having him work with a young secondary as a mentor, and I agree with that scenario. But if he is done, of course not.

As to Gregg Williams? Again, if he is done, it will be irrelevant. And if is capable of returning to form, than that is why he would be back, not Williams. I don't see how it will have a bearing on or influence their thought process. IMO, he will make the roster based on merit, or he will be cut. You concurred with this, just not sure why be a stickler about the history and TEN connection points. Since you aren't saying he should make the roster even if he doesn't deserve to, than that takes primacy over everything else. Not history or previous connection.

Not quite sure why you seem to be taking exception to my comments. You are the one who is making statements about "IF he is done" "IF his play doesn't improve" etc.....

Find for me where I have said that he should be brought back IF those are true. The thing is, neither you or I KNOW FOR SURE either way.

All I have said, is it would not surprise me to see him in camp in 2014. While MOST people have written him off as either a CAP casualty, or that he "is done".

I also don't see why you seem to think its a major point whether they make his injury (or lack thereof) public. What do they have to gain one way or another?

You seem to wanting to pick an argument with whatever I post, so, lets just leave it as we disagree on what Finnegan's situation may or may not be moving forward.
 

F. Mulder

Starter
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Jul 31, 2010
Messages
773
1) more than they already draw?:sad: They don't need any help there. GW won't hurt the cause any more than any other DC would.
2) nope. Players play, coaches coach, winning cures all

Yeah, I stupidly thought Fisher being on the competition committee would lead to more forgiveness but after this season he should resign! Can't be any worse than it already is. The officials, in general, are calling a game I am no longer familiar with and I can't help but think sometimes they think the fans pay to see THEM in action or they have an OBLIGATION to be active in games.
 
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Rabid Ram

Legend
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Mar 13, 2013
Messages
7,360
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Dustin
Not quite sure why you seem to be taking exception to my comments. You are the one who is making statements about "IF he is done" "IF his play doesn't improve" etc.....

Find for me where I have said that he should be brought back IF those are true. The thing is, neither you or I KNOW FOR SURE either way.

All I have said, is it would not surprise me to see him in camp in 2014. While MOST people have written him off as either a CAP casualty, or that he "is done".

I also don't see why you seem to think its a major point whether they make his injury (or lack thereof) public. What do they have to gain one way or another?

You seem to wanting to pick an argument with whatever I post, so, lets just leave it as we disagree on what Finnegan's situation may or may not be moving forward.
Can y'all take this to its own thread please
 

Thordaddy

Binding you with ancient logic
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Messages
10,462
Name
Rich
Actually DV was very involved in the O from what I read. He would tell Martz very often to run or ass. He didn't decide what play but he often decided what type. He maintained balance. Faulk didn't decline until well after Warner was foolishly benched and that is the moment The Show was over.
You think we were ever more balanced than in the NFC Championship 2 years AFTER Dicky V left?
Martz was the author of "finesse that" after Trung Canidate who HE drafted to be Marshals heir apparent torched the Jets.
Nobody had to tell Martz to run the ball, he did it as long as he had a back that gave him the production he wanted.
Faulks best year the Rams outrushed their opponents by almost 700 yards again 2 years after DV left,it's a myth Martz didn't want to run the ball.