The Rams should trade WR Sammy Watkins for Lions CB Darius Slay

[JKBOGEN]

You really are not comparing a real WR like Watkins, with gadget guy like Austin, are you?

I'm comparing the situation when you are desperate and you pay the guy and HOPE that he works out.

 

[nighttrain]

I'm comparing the situation when you are desperate and you pay the guy and HOPE that he works out.

Watkins made some truly incredible catches last season, and the 8 TDs is nothing to sneeze at
train

 

[Loyal]

I'm comparing the situation when you are desperate and you pay the guy and HOPE that he works out.

But we are not desperate.

Watkins is a legit WR that came in after a critical phase for the year was over, and everybody acknowledges that. He was very efficient in certain situations, as CGI pointed out in a nearby post. Austin's new contract was a surprise when it happened, and most were not happy about it (I know I sure wasn't), because he never proved he could be even a decent WR, let alone a #1 WR. The only desperate ones at that time was Fisher and Snead, because they couldn't do in multiple years, what McVay/Snead did in one year. Sammy was a team player last year and accepted his role as a team mate. Our Offense didn't need a single WR getting all of the yards, like some teams. Stats aren't everything..

 

[JKBOGEN]

But we are not desperate.

Watkins is a legit WR that came in after a critical phase for the year was over, and everybody acknowledges that. He was very efficient in certain situations, as CGI pointed out in a nearby post. Austin's new contract was a surprise when it happened, and most were not happy about it (I know I sure wasn't), because he never proved he could be even a decent WR, let alone a #1 WR. The only desperate ones at that time was Fisher and Snead, because they couldn't do in multiple years, what McVay/Snead did in one year. Sammy was a team player last year and accepted his role as a team mate. Our Offense didn't need a single WR getting all of the yards, like some teams. Stats aren't everything..

Exactly we are not. But paying a receiver that isn't worth top dollar, top dollar IS desperate

 

[nighttrain]

Exactly we are not. But paying a receiver that isn't worth top dollar, top dollar IS desperate

What i see Jake, is without SW, all our other receivers would take a huge hit in production. SW always gets double coverage, without him, Kupp and Woods stats would be much different.
train

 

[JKBOGEN]

What i see Jake, is without SW, all our other receivers would take a huge hit in production. SW always gets double coverage, without him, Kupp and Woods stats would be much different.
train

Woods would be fine. I saw someone that proved he was better than his teammate he was overshadowed by in Buffalo.

 

[nighttrain]

Woods would be fine. I saw someone that proved he was better than his teammate he was overshadowed by in Buffalo.

if Woods got the double coverage SW got, you actually think he would be as productive next season? I dont see it.
train

 

[Loyal]

Exactly we are not. But paying a receiver that isn't worth top dollar, top dollar IS desperate

Getting his replacement in FA will require payment OVER top dollar. Our coaches have watched the guy intensely over the season and I trust their collective judgment. IF they sign him for what you call "top dollar" then they believe he is worth it. That's good enough for me.

 

[Loyal]

if Woods got the double coverage SW got, you actually think he would be as productive next season? I dont see it.
train

I love me some Woods, but he isn't as explosive as Sammy..He is fast when he gets going, no doubt.

 

[JKBOGEN]

Getting his replacement in FA will require payment OVER top dollar. Our coaches have watched the guy intensely over the season and I trust their collective judgment. IF they sign him for what you call "top dollar" then they believe he is worth it. That's good enough for me.

Draft and we also have Josh Reynolds and Mike Thomas

 

[nighttrain]

Thomas or Reynolds just jags right now, SW a whole different level, best tools of all Ram Receivers
train

 

[Loyal]

Draft and we also have Josh Reynolds and Mike Thomas

All of which require more faith than trusting in Sammy Watkins. Reynolds and Thomas flashed at times, but they also disappeared a LOT. We are not taking a WR in the first round, imo....Even a FA would have to be the sort to scare opposing D.coordinators into a double team of the new #1 WR...All of these choices mean a lessening of the overall passing game in my opinion, instead of believing Sammy can benefit from an offseason program.

 

[JKBOGEN]

Thomas or Reynolds just jags right now, SW a whole different level, best tools of all Ram Receivers
train

Best tools but this is still a guy that has indirected at the Rams on twitter before and is doing it again. I question his interest in playing for us and while he has tools he simply did not have that great of a season. I also rather pay Tru and Joyner over him.

 

[dieterbrock]

Exactly we are not. But paying a receiver that isn't worth top dollar, top dollar IS desperate

Why would Detroit be desperate? They have Marvin Jones, Golden Taint and rookie surprise Kenny Holladay under contract.
When was the last sign and trade executed in the NFL anyways? Non qb of course
Can’t see Watkins agreeing to go to Detroit vs being UFA
Just seems to me you’re theory is leaving out all the reasons why it wouldn’t happen

 

[Loyal]

Draft and we also have Josh Reynolds and Mike Thomas

Sorry Jake, me and nighttrain are tag teaming you..lol....You know I'm a fan of yours, but I really like the apparent maturation of Watkins and believe he will only get better with a real off season program. I like that our offense doesn't depend on a 1500 yard guy, with Kupp and Woods running superb routes and getting really good production due to the distraction of Sammy Watkins. I want Sammy's numbers to be around 1200-1400 yards receiving and double digit TD's, which I truly believe is coming. Our offense could be absolutely ridonculous next year!

 

[jap]

The last time we paid a WR double digits because of the potential of what he could be was Tavon Austin and he is leaving this season due to being a cap casualty

I recall a Rams team insider once describing the difference between potential and upside. Potential is the belief in what a player could do if he maxes out his talent. Upside is the actual fact of what a player can literally do because it has been seen in practice or (in Sammy's case) on another team.

You talk about potential with Tavon because he is a RB turned WR who never was a true WR. He is not fluent with the route tree; he is not very good at running routes---even with his elite speed and change-of-direction skills---and his hands have always been suspect in traffic. Fisher gave Tavon a megabuck contract based on a wild dream that Tavon would flourish as a star receiver, and, as a result, Tavon will probably be exiting this team because he is grossly overpaid.

You talk about upside with Sammy because he has showcased those elite skills at the NFL level already. The biggest holdback with Sammy is the fact that his trade occurred so deep into training camp. He missed valuable time establishing the needed rapport with Jared, which Robert and Cooper Kupp both obviously benefitted immensely from.

What makes Sammy so intriguing is that he really stretches the virtual playing field vertically. This opens up all the short and intermediate routes for Robert, Cooper, the TEs, and RBs to exploit. It keeps at least one safety/CB pair deep and out of the box . . . allowing the Gurley Man more room to roam. Neither Robert nor Cooper normally provides that kind of defensive stretching. Oh, they can sneak deep occasionally as we saw Robert do on the 94-yard bomb, but those are exceptions to what can be the rule if a healthy Jared-Sammy battery is set in operation. When! that battery is firmly established next season, the McVay offense will raise a level or two above the high heights of last season.

I am well aware that some of you focus on comparing actual production with potential salary payouts and are frowning on the Sammy situation as a result. I do not really mind that as that pragmatic outlook keeps those of us who live on the positive expectation edge in check. But bear in mind Sammy's particular circumstances coming to the Horns. We have a high profile receiver whose exposure to NFL passing offenses was that of the rush dominant Bills offense. Their passing offense is sparse compared to the richly featured McVay offense of which we have only seen in part so far. Sean could not even get his beloved TEs fully going because they are still so young and inexperienced, although I expect a major hike in their production next season.

Sammy came in here naively expecting to master the prolific McVay passing scheme in a few weeks---as though mastering Sean's intricate offense is anywhere as easy as adapting to the scanty Bills passing scheme. He missed out on the priceless private workouts with Jared and had to build the rapport between them mostly on game days---not the best option at all! We witnessed his frustration running the wrong routes, not flowing smoothly on routes because of his route unfamiliarity, etc. All of that goes away this off season because we all know the Jared the worker bee extraordinaire is always up for workouts with his fly guys. Last year's confusion & uncertainty should be replaced with precision, stellar receiving, & prevalent breakouts of defensive coordinator insanity throughout the opponents list on the Horns 2018 schedule.

I expect the Horns to resign Sammy and start pushing the McVay offense to "Max Q," to borrow one of Mad Mike Martz' beloved phrases.

 

[So Ram]

I'm comparing the situation when you are desperate and you pay the guy and HOPE that he works out.

Dude that is ridiculous if you don’t think McVay has a handle on this ?

Sammy is still so young. He will get coached up. If The Rams franchise him ?
( still to be determined) You have to know the trust in him.

—- where is the desperation ? The Rams have a nice WR group even without Sammy. —So much so that Tavon will be shown the door ?

Then again will find out soon.

 

[jrry32]

Well I didn't say anything about him fitting our scheme or not. I said he played better than Tru this season. A lot better . He's going to get paid. Whether it's anywhere near what Tru gets paid is only due to the fact that the Rams are a high profile team and the Bill's are not .

He played better than Tru because he played in a scheme that made his job easier than Tru's did. As for him getting paid less, it's not because the Rams are a high-profile team. It's because he's an undersized, scheme-limited CB with bad injury history. Tru has an injury history himself, but he's managed to stay fairly healthy the past few years.

 

[jrry32]

I'm comparing the situation when you are desperate and you pay the guy and HOPE that he works out.

But we're not desperate. Whether or not we re-sign Sammy comes down to McVay's evaluation of him. This isn't Fisher incompetently valuing offensive players. This is Sean McVay. He knows what he's doing on that side of the ball. If he thinks Reynolds is ready to step into that role, he might let Sammy walk. If he thinks Paul Richardson can play that role just as well for less, he might let Sammy walk. If he thinks Sammy is his guy, he'll make Sammy a fair offer, or he'll tag him.

Regardless, for a tag and trade to work, you need both teams to agree on players AND the player to agree to sign with the team acquiring him. I don't see Sammy re-signing with Detroit (or being happy with that arrangement), and I don't see Detroit needing a WR more than a CB. It's a deal that benefits the Rams for sure, but I don't see the benefits for the other parties.

 

[WestCoastRam]

@jakebogen95

Apologies if this was said prior, and I want you to know I totally appreciate the work you put in to your write ups but that poll is a quietly enraging logical fallacy. You've totally set up a false equivalence here by adding in numerous variables to the Sammy Watkins resigning (losing other players). You do damn fine work but I think it can be more impactful, less dismissed and more thought provoking if you stay away from things such as this, as it - in my case - leads me to consider dismissing the logic of any proceeding arguments.

There's certainly a way to rewrite the poll to ensure that the point - I think you're trying to make - is underlined by adding more choices than just the two above.