The Goff watch thread

[PhillyRam]

Talk about obsessed

 

[Neil039]

10 pages of folks still shitting on Goff? Man, it's time to move on....
I thought this might have been a "good luck JG" kind of thread but silly me

I didn’t shit, I wasn’t even close to wiping. I wished him luck and stated I respect him.

 

[PhillyRam]

You're a good speculator, and think it's likely there's a lot of accuracy there. Here's what I would add:
I think McVay had the Rams more prepared than any other coach last offseason. We came out of the gates blazin and crisp compared to other offenses. Then about 1/3 of the way into the season we started getting figured out, and teams realized they could push our OL around on runs, which became readily apparent when Whit went down. (At the same time Staley's D gelled into the force it became.)

I think Goff takes a lot of the grief for us rolling the dice on OL personnel acquisition, etc., but maybe not from McVay--he might've, without feeling that badly about Goff, just seen the chance to upgrade to Stafford and couldn't pass it up.

Agree with a lot of that...

And I will add that a healthy DeSean Jackson and a decent rookie yr from Atwell and or Harris, will make a bigger impact on this team than Stafford would have just on his own.

This team was woefully slow last yr when you compare them to other good offenses. Teams figured it out and it became a horizontal offense. And sure Goff was partly to blame, but wouldn't be surprised if he became conditioned that guys were not getting deep quickly so he didn't hold the ball too long as often the interior line would collapse on him.

The guy was in the top 5 in ypa in 17 & 18... Then he lost his deep threats and his interior line became more suspect with the loss of Saffold & even the aging Sullivan. Blythe, Allen, and kids at OG, struggled at times and it showed.

 

[1maGoh]

How is it possible to know without knowing the play call. Also it negates that McVay had already pared the offense down to make it easier. Just say 10% of the time is accurate, how good is that in a simplified version of the offense?

I would argue that he didn't pare down the offense. That is the offense. The media had mentioned it before 2019, and before the Detroit game in 2018. They mentioned it when LaFleur went to Green Bay. It was one of Aaron Rodgers complaints; there's two plays called and he was only supposed to audible to the second call. He thought that was a waste of of all his experience and the plethora of playa he knows that might exploit a defense. But that is the offense. That's just the way it runs.

As for the talking in the headset thing, I like how basically everyone on the board was mad about that narrative and argued against it, but now it's officially truth for some people. Honestly, that's an easy thing to counter anyway. If the defense is showing one look up until 15 seconds remaining, snap the ball at 16 seconds. No time to change the defense and you catch them on their heels. Give them something they aren't expecting. Problem solved, at least partially. Eat shit defense. Furthermore, wouldn't every offensive coordinator be doing this, especially now that it's a known tactic. You're telling me every OC around the league looked at what we were doing and said, "wow, that worked well for a QB that can't read defenses like Goff. Imagine what it could do for my QB! I guess I'll not do it because hurrrdurrr." That doesn't make sense. It's a copycat league. If it's working for one team, others will copy it. Except that, apparently. That's the untouchable only Goff method. I'm not arguing that it wasn't happening or that Goff didn't perform worse when defenses changed after the 15 second mark. We saw it in the Super Bowl. Mitigating factor of it being a Bellichik defense, so less than optimal performance is expected, but we still saw it. Honestly, it only makes sense that presenting a different look after giving a QB plenty of time to study the the first false look. It's just a twist on disguising the scheme and coverages, but with active pre snap movement to induce a second of panicked analysis. I think it might have been so consistently successful against the Rams because of the tendency to snap the ball with <4 second left on the clock. Defenses knew they weren't going to get caught mid transition.

Other than those minor nitpicks with your argument, I think the decision to upgrade the QB position was the right one. I'm excited about having a QB that excels in some areas Goff currently does not.

 

[Merlin]

The excuses for his poor play are way more frustrating to me than the "shit on Jared" posts. Which, btw, is it shitting on him to try to understand how/why he unraveled?

Guess in today's society we take any discussion that makes anyone uncomfortable and make it taboo eh? Because that's a great way to move forward.

I'll issue this challenge to anyone who thinks Goff is a victim here... Watch SF game two from last year. If you think McVay is to blame for fumbling the ball, missing open WRs, throwing INTs, not seeing open receivers on failed third downs, rushing his throws for no reason, etc, etc, then I just don't know what to tell you.

 

[FrantikRam]

Agree with a lot of that...

And I will add that a healthy DeSean Jackson and a decent rookie yr from Atwell and or Harris, will make a bigger impact on this team than Stafford would have just on his own.

This team was woefully slow last yr when you compare them to other good offenses. Teams figured it out and it became a horizontal offense. And sure Goff was partly to blame, but wouldn't be surprised if he became conditioned that guys were not getting deep quickly so he didn't hold the ball too long as often the interior line would collapse on him.

The guy was in the top 5 in ypa in 17 & 18... Then he lost his deep threats and his interior line became more suspect with the loss of Saffold & even the aging Sullivan. Blythe, Allen, and kids at OG, struggled at times and it showed.

The problem with this sentiment is that we did have open WRs down field when you look at replays.

And one of Goff's favorite deep targets the two good years? Gerald Everett. Not exactly DJax speed there.

 

[Angry Ram]

The excuses for his poor play are way more frustrating to me than the "shit on Jared" posts. Which, btw, is it shitting on him to try to understand how/why he unraveled?

Guess in today's society we take any discussion that makes anyone uncomfortable and make it taboo eh? Because that's a great way to move forward.

I'll issue this challenge to anyone who thinks Goff is a victim here... Watch SF game two from last year. If you think McVay is to blame for fumbling the ball, missing open WRs, throwing INTs, not seeing open receivers on failed third downs, rushing his throws for no reason, etc, etc, then I just don't know what to tell you.

It was the center's fault tho....

 

[thirteen28]

Can't believe this thread is still going on.

I was one of the ones most vehemently against trading Goff. But it happened. Stafford is here now. While I wish Goff luck in his new digs (with the usual "except against the Rams" caveat), I'm far more concerned with seeing how Stafford does now and am enjoying the preliminary results.

 

[12intheBox]

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisBurkeNFL/status/1424049046642102274?s=20

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Can't believe this thread is still going on.

I was one of the ones most vehemently against trading Goff. But it happened. Stafford is here now. While I wish Goff luck in his new digs (with the usual "except against the Rams" caveat), I'm far more concerned with seeing how Stafford does now and am enjoying the preliminary results.

View attachment 47037

Some folks just gotta get the last word,

Me?

I don’t care, I’m done “pontificating“

Now it’s up to what happens on the field

Lets get that Trophy

Out

 

[Rambitious1]

Sure is a lot of hyperbole being thrown around here. I haven't seen really anyone saying things like Jared sucked or that he had no "worts". I read this back and forth and just shake my head. Can we not see a reason the Rams moved on without it turning into meaning Jared sucks? Can we not lament the moving on without it meaning the person thinks Jared is without faults? It's kinda mind boggling really.

What I mostly see is people acknowledging that Jared had shortcomings and most feeling like Stafford upgrades the position. It seems mostly that those who don't like the trade, think maybe we gave up too early and/or gave up too much for Stafford. Those that like the trade seem to simply think Stafford gives us a better - maybe even a much better chance at winning a SB.

I just don't see the extreme positions some are using to identify those on the other side of their argument. Personally, I think that kind of hyperbole only weakens your position.

Very nicely put.
I agree.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I would argue that he didn't pare down the offense. That is the offense. The media had mentioned it before 2019, and before the Detroit game in 2018. They mentioned it when LaFleur went to Green Bay. It was one of Aaron Rodgers complaints; there's two plays called and he was only supposed to audible to the second call. He thought that was a waste of of all his experience and the plethora of playa he knows that might exploit a defense. But that is the offense. That's just the way it runs.

As for the talking in the headset thing, I like how basically everyone on the board was mad about that narrative and argued against it, but now it's officially truth for some people. Honestly, that's an easy thing to counter anyway. If the defense is showing one look up until 15 seconds remaining, snap the ball at 16 seconds. No time to change the defense and you catch them on their heels. Give them something they aren't expecting. Problem solved, at least partially. Eat shit defense. Furthermore, wouldn't every offensive coordinator be doing this, especially now that it's a known tactic. You're telling me every OC around the league looked at what we were doing and said, "wow, that worked well for a QB that can't read defenses like Goff. Imagine what it could do for my QB! I guess I'll not do it because hurrrdurrr." That doesn't make sense. It's a copycat league. If it's working for one team, others will copy it. Except that, apparently. That's the untouchable only Goff method. I'm not arguing that it wasn't happening or that Goff didn't perform worse when defenses changed after the 15 second mark. We saw it in the Super Bowl. Mitigating factor of it being a Bellichik defense, so less than optimal performance is expected, but we still saw it. Honestly, it only makes sense that presenting a different look after giving a QB plenty of time to study the the first false look. It's just a twist on disguising the scheme and coverages, but with active pre snap movement to induce a second of panicked analysis. I think it might have been so consistently successful against the Rams because of the tendency to snap the ball with <4 second left on the clock. Defenses knew they weren't going to get caught mid transition.

Other than those minor nitpicks with your argument, I think the decision to upgrade the QB position was the right one. I'm excited about having a QB that excels in some areas Goff currently does not.

Except McVay did try to simplify the offense to make things easier for Goff. It’s not hard to see. Even the rollouts that everyone thought was due to poor Oline play was to help Goff by giving him half field reads. One press conference McVay said, “My quarterback is not seeing the entire field.”

 

[OldSchool]

Except McVay did try to simplify the offense to make things easier for Goff. It’s not hard to see. Even the rollouts that everyone thought was due to poor Oline play was to help Goff by giving him half field reads. One press conference McVay said, “My quarterback is not seeing the entire field.”

He also hurt the offense in 2019 and 2020 and quite possibly hurt his QB's development. It's very easy to see and he attempted to remedy some of those changes this past off season. I've yet to see anybody saying Jared is great or perfect or doesn't deserve criticism. I've seen very few people say part of the problem extends beyond Jared as well.

And damnit I swore off these shit on former player threads and people just won't let it die and I get dragged back into peoples shit.

 

[MachS]

Except McVay did try to simplify the offense to make things easier for Goff. It’s not hard to see. Even the rollouts that everyone thought was due to poor Oline play was to help Goff by giving him half field reads. One press conference McVay said, “My quarterback is not seeing the entire field.”

Bingo. That's why its so funny to me that people actually try and blame McVay. Since day 1 in LA he said he will build his scheme around what his players do well.

If you really pay attention to what McVay says about Stafford, it will tell you everything you need to know about how he felt about Goff. He says "in the toughest situations, in known passing situations, Matt is playing QB at the highest level. Navigating the rush and moving in the pocket, exhausting his progressions, and manipulating defenders with his eyes." Those are all the things Goff struggled with. In known passing situations he was terrible when he had to drop back, sit in the pocket, read the defense and go through progressions, all while navigating the rush. He just didn't do that well, and in McVays eyes thats where the elite QBs shine.

 

[Angry Ram]

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisBurkeNFL/status/1424049046642102274?s=20

Yeah! Flex against them backups!

 

[1maGoh]

Except McVay did try to simplify the offense to make things easier for Goff. It’s not hard to see. Even the rollouts that everyone thought was due to poor Oline play was to help Goff by giving him half field reads. One press conference McVay said, “My quarterback is not seeing the entire field.”

That may be true and probably is true. The two play system isn't an example of McVay simplifying the offense for him. As I said, LaFleur did it for Aaron Rodgers who probably doesn't need that help. It's just a part of the system.

 

[Dodgersrf]

I missed this thread. I do not know why.

Generators seemed to be more important. Good lord.

I know one thing personally, I was never confident which Goff was going to show up. Ever.

I am excited to see Stafford. It seems like a logical fit.

Our future is what we should all question. If we can get eight GREAT years out of Stafford, good deal.

If a couple........well.........then what?

Will be there on Sunday night against the Bears. So excited!

Mojo changed the thread title.

 

[Merlin]

He also hurt the offense in 2019 and 2020 and quite possibly hurt his QB's development. It's very easy to see and he attempted to remedy some of those changes this past off season. I've yet to see anybody saying Jared is great or perfect or doesn't deserve criticism. I've seen very few people say part of the problem extends beyond Jared as well.

And damnit I swore off these shit on former player threads and people just won't let it die and I get dragged back into peoples shit.

If you're posting here you're doing the same shit everyone else is: putting your opinion out there. Quit acting like you're being victimized by having to come in here and set the record straight. Make your point dude it doesn't require all that. I'm gonna make my point right here for you without any of that shit, how's that sound.

The problem in this whole mess with Goff as it pertains to fan boards is that there are so many fans who don't see what is right in front of their faces. This is not a pick on a player thing. It's a the truth is right there in front of some of us but they can't see it thing. I don't hold it against you guys who are doing that either. I just wish you'd allow yourself to consider that you were wrong about Jared Goff. I had some trouble with that myself, as I was always a staunch Goff backer. But there's a point where, if you watch the games and see what is going on, you simply cannot keep making excuses for the guy.

These are just from the first half of the SF game last year. Setting was both us and Seattle were 7-3 and vying for the division while the Rams had a game vs a SF team reeling with a backup QB. There is zero excuse for us not blowing those clowns out. And as I alluded to above there is zero doubt as to the biggest reason we lost that game because the game was close. If he had just put up a normally bad day from previous years we would have won easily.

These show the endings of every single possession in the first half.

First possession. Misses Kupp for a gimme first down on the first drive. End result is Rams settle for FG.

Next possession. Following an SF drive for a TD he overthrows Higbee and it is intercepted by Sherman. Result is 9er ball.

Next possession. Following a turnover by the Rams defense this is the first third down and a chance to answer on this drive. Short third down right here with a wide open WR but he does not see it. Instead missile locks on previous read and runs out of time, flushed from pocket and incomplete. Result is we punt from midfield.

Next possession and following a nice stop by the Rams defense here is a 2nd and 11. He has Reynolds on an easy out for the yardage with the safety backed up over the top. This is a throw Goff has made a million times and is very hard to stop if he's on time with it. He doesn't see it because he's trying to look off the safety for Kupp I think but either way he misses it. Result is sack for yardage loss. McVay calls a draw the very next play, which plays into the idea that he's giving up but hard to blame him here. Rams punt.

Next possession. Easy short yardage third down. He has Everett sitting there open but doesn't see him, as well as a wideout at the top of the screen. This is yet another pitch and catch and why I say he's not the same QB. End result incompletion to a covered Woody and punt.

Next possession. Rams driving for what looks like should be some points. Goff scrambles and fumbles. End result 9er ball. 9ers run out of time and miss the field goal before the half.

Note that we still almost won this game. Think about that one. Was this about McVay??? You tell me dude. And again this is not the only game where we see Goff not being the same Goff. You can't be a contender if you have a QB who can melt down randomly vs good defense. He simply was not good enough to QB this team. It hurts, I know. But it is what it is dude now go buy your Stafford jersey.

 

[OldSchool]

If you're posting here you're doing the same shit everyone else is: putting your opinion out there. Quit acting like you're being victimized by having to come in here and set the record straight. Make your point dude it doesn't require all that. I'm gonna make my point right here for you without any of that shit, how's that sound.

The problem in this whole mess with Goff as it pertains to fan boards is that there are so many fans who don't see what is right in front of their faces. This is not a pick on a player thing. It's a the truth is right there in front of some of us but they can't see it thing. I don't hold it against you guys who are doing that either. I just wish you'd allow yourself to consider that you were wrong about Jared Goff. I had some trouble with that myself, as I was always a staunch Goff backer. But there's a point where, if you watch the games and see what is going on, you simply cannot keep making excuses for the guy.

These are just from the first half of the SF game last year. Setting was both us and Seattle were 7-3 and vying for the division while the Rams had a game vs a SF team reeling with a backup QB. There is zero excuse for us not blowing those clowns out. And as I alluded to above there is zero doubt as to the biggest reason we lost that game because the game was close. If he had just put up a normally bad day from previous years we would have won easily.

These show the endings of every single possession in the first half.

First possession. Misses Kupp for a gimme first down on the first drive. End result is Rams settle for FG.
View attachment 47041

Next possession. Following an SF drive for a TD he overthrows Higbee and it is intercepted by Sherman. Result is 9er ball.
View attachment 47042

Next possession. Following a turnover by the Rams defense this is the first third down and a chance to answer on this drive. Short third down right here with a wide open WR but he does not see it. Instead missile locks on previous read and runs out of time, flushed from pocket and incomplete. Result is we punt from midfield.
View attachment 47043

Next possession and following a nice stop by the Rams defense here is a 2nd and 11. He has Reynolds on an easy out for the yardage with the safety backed up over the top. This is a throw Goff has made a million times and is very hard to stop if he's on time with it. He doesn't see it because he's trying to look off the safety for Kupp I think but either way he misses it. Result is sack for yardage loss. McVay calls a draw the very next play, which plays into the idea that he's giving up but hard to blame him here. Rams punt.
View attachment 47044

Next possession. Easy short yardage third down. He has Everett sitting there open but doesn't see him, as well as a wideout at the top of the screen. This is yet another pitch and catch and why I say he's not the same QB. End result incompletion to a covered Woody and punt.
View attachment 47045

Next possession. Rams driving for what looks like should be some points. Goff scrambles and fumbles. End result 9er ball. 9ers run out of time and miss the field goal before the half.
View attachment 47046

Note that we still almost won this game. Think about that one. Was this about McVay??? You tell me dude. And again this is not the only game where we see Goff not being the same Goff. You can't be a contender if you have a QB who can melt down randomly vs good defense. He simply was not good enough to QB this team. It hurts, I know. But it is what it is dude now go buy your Stafford jersey.

hahahah where the holy fuck did I act like a victim? My god you're an annoying prick lately. Couldn't care less what the pictures you posted or your comments about them are. I never said it was all McVay's fault and I never said it wasn't any of Jareds fault. Quit projecting your anger at Jared on to me. Saying "quite possibly hurt his QB's development" really seems to set you off. My want to talk to somebody about that you could get help.

For the millionth time Jared had issues. I also think McVay has issues. Both need to fix them moving forward. Is this plain enough english language for you?

 

[Tano]

If you're posting here you're doing the same shit everyone else is: putting your opinion out there. Quit acting like you're being victimized by having to come in here and set the record straight. Make your point dude it doesn't require all that. I'm gonna make my point right here for you without any of that shit, how's that sound.

The problem in this whole mess with Goff as it pertains to fan boards is that there are so many fans who don't see what is right in front of their faces. This is not a pick on a player thing. It's a the truth is right there in front of some of us but they can't see it thing. I don't hold it against you guys who are doing that either. I just wish you'd allow yourself to consider that you were wrong about Jared Goff. I had some trouble with that myself, as I was always a staunch Goff backer. But there's a point where, if you watch the games and see what is going on, you simply cannot keep making excuses for the guy.

These are just from the first half of the SF game last year. Setting was both us and Seattle were 7-3 and vying for the division while the Rams had a game vs a SF team reeling with a backup QB. There is zero excuse for us not blowing those clowns out. And as I alluded to above there is zero doubt as to the biggest reason we lost that game because the game was close. If he had just put up a normally bad day from previous years we would have won easily.

These show the endings of every single possession in the first half.

First possession. Misses Kupp for a gimme first down on the first drive. End result is Rams settle for FG.
View attachment 47041

Next possession. Following an SF drive for a TD he overthrows Higbee and it is intercepted by Sherman. Result is 9er ball.
View attachment 47042

Next possession. Following a turnover by the Rams defense this is the first third down and a chance to answer on this drive. Short third down right here with a wide open WR but he does not see it. Instead missile locks on previous read and runs out of time, flushed from pocket and incomplete. Result is we punt from midfield.
View attachment 47043

Next possession and following a nice stop by the Rams defense here is a 2nd and 11. He has Reynolds on an easy out for the yardage with the safety backed up over the top. This is a throw Goff has made a million times and is very hard to stop if he's on time with it. He doesn't see it because he's trying to look off the safety for Kupp I think but either way he misses it. Result is sack for yardage loss. McVay calls a draw the very next play, which plays into the idea that he's giving up but hard to blame him here. Rams punt.
View attachment 47044

Next possession. Easy short yardage third down. He has Everett sitting there open but doesn't see him, as well as a wideout at the top of the screen. This is yet another pitch and catch and why I say he's not the same QB. End result incompletion to a covered Woody and punt.
View attachment 47045

Next possession. Rams driving for what looks like should be some points. Goff scrambles and fumbles. End result 9er ball. 9ers run out of time and miss the field goal before the half.
View attachment 47046

Note that we still almost won this game. Think about that one. Was this about McVay??? You tell me dude. And again this is not the only game where we see Goff not being the same Goff. You can't be a contender if you have a QB who can melt down randomly vs good defense. He simply was not good enough to QB this team. It hurts, I know. But it is what it is dude now go buy your Stafford jersey.

I don't know why but he always had terrible first halves against some teams (49ers primarily) but then would come back and play much better in the second half. For some reason Goff was primarily a second half QB. Was he still getting over the night before with his GF in the first half?