That oline!!

[jjab360]

Matthew Stafford heaps praise on Brian Allen: 'He thinks like the quarterback'

When Brian Allen got his first chance to start at center in 2019, he looked like a below-average player. He was overpowered by stronger interior linemen, getting pushed back into the quarterback far too often. A knee injury sidelined him for the second half of…

theramswire.usatoday.com

It's my understanding that Carberry always wanted Allen as the starter. But Sean for whatever reason wanted to shift Corbett to center. I think from statements made at the time of Corbett's acquisition that Corbett was the Ram's first choice as a center but got taken before their pick came up. So they went to plan B which was Allen. Basically, McVay wanted to go back to their original position plan.

But it was clear to Carberry that Corbett was clearly behind Allen in his development as a Center. During the joint practices with Vegas McVay saw for himself what exactly Carberry was telling him. Corbett's ability to make the proper pass protection calls weren't nearly as good as Allen's. It's exactly why he was benched as a center in Cleveland.

Holy speculation. Any evidence to back these claims up?

 

[Tano]

This has nothing to do with my bitterness towards the former QB. I'm not gonna blindly agree on this topic when there's plenty that supports my claim.

So if you actually want to discuss how the line wasn't a problem last season, I'm all for it.

I don't completely go by stats. I watch the plays as well.

I have stated many many many times Blythe was okay on 1st down and 2nd down and less than 8 yards but when it was 2nd and long or 3rd and long and the other team had a decent bull rushing nose tackle/tackle - Goff was screwed. And the rest of the line was above average to very good. I won't argue that. But the stats don't show Blythe's weakness and why we had to run so many 3rd down WR screens, delayed hand-offs, roll outs, etc. I rarely saw Goff drop back on a 3rd down and long and hold the ball for longer than 2 seconds because it just wasn't there. He would have to dump it off as fast as he could within 1 to 1/2 seconds.

Stafford against Tampa Bay had 2 or more seconds almost every time it was 3rd and long. The OL this year is just so much better than last years OL on 3rd down and long. And it is all because they do not have a weak link in the chain this year.

And I am going to enjoy this year very much.

Cheers!

 

[FarNorth]

I get your point.
Timeline of Spring, etc remains the same.
I'm just not buying into some narrative that he saw something others didn't, as *seems* to be being suggested. If that's not the point, apologies.

For example:

“If you were to say (who is) one of the standouts of camp, Brian Allen’s definitely one of those guys for me,” McVay said.

Rams’ Brian Allen is back in the center of the action

Out since a November 2019 knee injury, the former starting center is listed as the first-stringer on the season’s first depth chart.

www.ocregister.com

Again.. the line is kicking ass and I think Carberry has a great deal to do with it.

I am definitely suggesting that Carberry was responsible for the decision to start Allen and that it came quickly after seeing him in real competition for the first time.

No doubt others may have seen the same thing at that point. Decision may well have been a consensus, who knows. But at minimum it could not have come without Carberry's own action, ownership and approval.

And I think it was a big deal. Corbett had been the presumed starting center for months going back to comments by McVay and Snead in the winter. Pulling the plug on him was a serious change.

Lots of coaches have dithered for long periods of time before replacing a presumed starter at an important position. Carberry didn't. As a rookie coach in the NFL he took charge of the situation and made the change. And, clearly, it was not just right but a season altering level of right for the Rams.

That takes correct player evaluation, decisiveness, and balls. Carberry has got them.

 

[Pupped]

I am definitely suggesting that Carberry was responsible for the decision to start Allen and that it came quickly after seeing him in real competition for the first time.

No doubt others may have seen the same thing at that point. Decision may well have been a consensus, who knows. But at minimum it could not have come without Carberry's own action, ownership and approval.

And I think it was a big deal. Corbett had been the presumed starting center for months going back to comments by McVay and Snead in the winter. Pulling the plug on him was a serious change.

Lots of coaches have dithered for long periods of time before replacing a presumed starter at an important position. Carberry didn't. As a rookie coach in the NFL he took charge of the situation and made the change. And, clearly, it was not just right but a season altering level of right for the Rams.

That takes correct player evaluation, decisiveness, and balls. Carberry has got them.

Yeah, I seriously doubt it went like that.
I’m pretty confident in McVay’s ability to see things in front of him as well.
I don’t disagree that things became much clearer when the pads went on, but heck, Jourdan Rodrigue mentioned Allen balling out.

 

[WestCoastRam]

View: https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1441512306525892610


Sounds like Edwards gave up the most pressures in the Bucs game but the guy has also been doing quite well at times too. If he's the weak link of the line, we're in pretty damn good shape.

 

[FarNorth]

Yeah, I seriously doubt it went like that.
I’m pretty confident in McVay’s ability to see things in front of him as well.
I don’t disagree that things became much clearer when the pads went on, but heck, Jourdan Rodrigue mentioned Allen balling out.

No doubt McVay and others saw Allen's play too. But making a big change after one scrimmage is still a serious decision. Doesn't happen imo without the position coach buy in and sign off, if not initiative. There would then likely be a consensus.

If you want to attribute the decision to McVay or the assistant coaches or a consensus, fine. Carberry still gets big time credit in my estimation.

 

[1maGoh]

No doubt McVay and others saw Allen's play too. But making a big change after one scrimmage is still a serious decision. Doesn't happen imo without the position coach buy in and sign off, if not initiative. There would then likely be a consensus.

If you want to attribute the decision to McVay or the assistant coaches or a consensus, fine. Carberry still gets big time credit in my estimation.

Yes, McVay send like the type to be aware. I bet he's also the type to go to the position coach and say, "we have a problem at center. How are you going to fix it?" And then accept the answer he's given. Seems like Kromer gave the wrong answer too many times. Carberry switched up personnel instead of promising to teach them harder (probably).

 

[Pupped]

No doubt McVay and others saw Allen's play too. But making a big change after one scrimmage is still a serious decision. Doesn't happen imo without the position coach buy in and sign off, if not initiative. There would then likely be a consensus.

If you want to attribute the decision to McVay or the assistant coaches or a consensus, fine. Carberry still gets big time credit in my estimation.

I give Carberry a ton of credit! I just also am happy to give McVay enough credit to believe they saw the same thing.

 

[Riverumbbq]

I am definitely suggesting that Carberry was responsible for the decision to start Allen and that it came quickly after seeing him in real competition for the first time.

No doubt others may have seen the same thing at that point. Decision may well have been a consensus, who knows. But at minimum it could not have come without Carberry's own action, ownership and approval.

And I think it was a big deal. Corbett had been the presumed starting center for months going back to comments by McVay and Snead in the winter. Pulling the plug on him was a serious change.

Lots of coaches have dithered for long periods of time before replacing a presumed starter at an important position. Carberry didn't. As a rookie coach in the NFL he took charge of the situation and made the change. And, clearly, it was not just right but a season altering level of right for the Rams.

That takes correct player evaluation, decisiveness, and balls. Carberry has got them.

I believe the guy whose plug was pulled happens to be Evans. Allen was the obvious choice since he was 'balling out' in camp & others were not, Evans we haven't really heard a word from since his dismal performance during the pre-season, and Corbett has become a monster at RG. Had Evans 'balled out' as to what was initially expected of him, it's hard to say who might be starting at Center right now, I'm just happy as hell to see that things have worked themselves out as well as they have.
jmo.

 

[Angry Ram]

I don't completely go by stats. I watch the plays as well.

I do too. I just didn't see it bro. Again every OL and individual linemen will give up pressures especially on the money down.

But the stats don't show Blythe's weakness and why we had to run so many 3rd down WR screens, delayed hand-offs, roll outs, etc. I rarely saw Goff drop back on a 3rd down and long and hold the ball for longer than 2 seconds because it just wasn't there. He would have to dump it off as fast as he could within 1 to 1/2 seconds.

You would agree the Miami was the worst one right? I just don't see the C getting bullied like your claiming. He had time, pressures came of the edge (still no excuse for TOs).


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnRQEHWY0DU&t=317s


I don't agree that they did short passes and roll outs b/c of the C, but that's another topic entirely.

Stafford against Tampa Bay had 2 or more seconds almost every time it was 3rd and long. The OL this year is just so much better than last years OL on 3rd down and long. And it is all because they do not have a weak link in the chain this year.

Sure, I can say its better. It was fine last season too.

BTW - kudos for taking the time to have conversation, whether or not you agree with my view.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Okey dokey

 

[FarNorth]

I believe the guy whose plug was pulled happens to be Evans. Allen was the obvious choice since he was 'balling out' in camp & others were not, Evans we haven't really heard a word from since his dismal performance during the pre-season, and Corbett has become a monster at RG. Had Evans 'balled out' as to what was initially expected of him, it's hard to say who might be starting at Center right now, I'm just happy as hell to see that things have worked themselves out as well as they have.
jmo.

Agreed. Corbett is playing great at guard. No doubt he could have played center, but this is by far our best line right now with Allen at center and Corbett at guard.

 

[OldSchool]

You would agree the Miami was the worst one right? I just don't see the C getting bullied like your claiming. He had time, pressures came of the edge (still no excuse for TOs).

What is this supposed to tell us a few plays from one game? First play he got help. Second play he got bullied the whole line did. Third play the defense wasn't set. Next play was what an immediate release ball caught less than 2 yards from the line of scrimmage shows us nothing. Next play he gets help from 2 guys. That ends that drive. If that's supposed to tell us Blythe was good that game you really did nothing with that video to prove it.

Second drive first play gets help 2 vs 1. Next play his guy stunts away from him he's holding his space nothing gets by him. Next play he lets his guy go by him on a designed screen pass the whole line is at the second level. Next play he holds his guy up well. Next play his guy gets by him after pushing him back with 2 punches but the ball is released short. Next guy he pushes his guy into help neutralizing his guy.

Sorry Blythe had a single good play in that video? That's supposed to show us he was good last year? I get wanting to support your guy but I haven't seen anything on tape showing me Blythe wasn't below average to bad last year and this video doesn't change that. I also wouldn't say short passes were because of Blythe but he really didn't do anything to inspire confidence as is evidence by us (as well as the rest of the league) not offering him a contract big enough to beat out the 1 year $990k contract to be a backup he signed with the Chiefs.

 

[Angry Ram]

What is this supposed to tell us a few plays from one game? First play he got help. Second play he got bullied the whole line did. Third play the defense wasn't set. Next play was what an immediate release ball caught less than 2 yards from the line of scrimmage shows us nothing. Next play he gets help from 2 guys. That ends that drive. If that's supposed to tell us Blythe was good that game you really did nothing with that video to prove it.

It's what is available dude. I took from what was obviously their worse game. And even despite that game they ranked right up there among the best lines.

Second drive first play gets help 2 vs 1. Next play his guy stunts away from him he's holding his space nothing gets by him. Next play he lets his guy go by him on a designed screen pass the whole line is at the second level. Next play he holds his guy up well. Next play his guy gets by him after pushing him back with 2 punches but the ball is released short. Next guy he pushes his guy into help neutralizing his guy.

I really don't want to go back and forth dissecting individual plays. OL play is all about playing well together, as a group and AB was a part of that. The offensive results (% pressure, sacks allowed, and run game) show that. Again I don't recall the QB running around or under immense pressure up the gut every game. To me it looked like any other given team that had an above average to good line.

Which was the whole point of my very first response here (that the OL has been playing well for a while and wasn't/isn't an issue). Who knew THAT would cause a shitstorm goddamn.

Sorry Blythe had a single good play in that video? That's supposed to show us he was good last year? I get wanting to support your guy but I haven't seen anything on tape showing me Blythe wasn't below average to bad last year and this video doesn't change that. I also wouldn't say short passes were because of Blythe but he really didn't do anything to inspire confidence as is evidence by us (as well as the rest of the league) not offering him a contract big enough to beat out the 1 year $990k contract to be a backup he signed with the Chiefs.

Well lets get one thing out the way. AB is not "my guy". He's JAG. I just firmly believe he wasn't a problem last year to the level everyone else sees him to be (and scapegoat him). Sorry I'm just not gonna go with the crowd on this subject.

 

[Tano]

You would agree the Miami was the worst one right? I just don't see the C getting bullied like your claiming. He had time, pressures came of the edge (still no excuse for TOs).

Yes I agree Miami sucked and Blythe wasn't the reason that Goff had issues that game.

But I have stated and Jrry agrees with me that the WR screen was there all day against that Cover 0 defense.

I don't know if it was Goff McVay or O'connell who screwed up on that defense.

As soon as they figured it out though in the 4th qtr, the WR screen tore up that defense for 15 yards each time Miami went to that defense. It was there all day to do that against that defense. And every time Miami didn't play that defense, Goff moved the ball well that day. I actually have gone back and rewatched that game a few times to see what the issue was.

The wrong play was called imho but hey shit happens.

 

[Tano]

Sure, I can say its better. It was fine last season too.

BTW - kudos for taking the time to have conversation, whether or not you agree with my view.

You're welcome. I probably shouldn't have said what I said earlier but I really disagreed with your opinion on a certain OL player last year. As I said earlier, we will have to agree to disagree on that player because I really hated his play on 3rd and long.

And although I didn't hate his play on running plays, there were so many times last year that if he made a block 5 yards downfield that Akers and Henderson would have made 10 to 20 yards or even more but only got 5 to 10 yards because of Blythe's missed block.

 

[TexasRam]

Matthew Stafford heaps praise on Brian Allen: 'He thinks like the quarterback'

When Brian Allen got his first chance to start at center in 2019, he looked like a below-average player. He was overpowered by stronger interior linemen, getting pushed back into the quarterback far too often. A knee injury sidelined him for the second half of…

theramswire.usatoday.com

It's my understanding that Carberry always wanted Allen as the starter. But Sean for whatever reason wanted to shift Corbett to center. I think from statements made at the time of Corbett's acquisition that Corbett was the Ram's first choice as a center but got taken before their pick came up. So they went to plan B which was Allen. Basically, McVay wanted to go back to their original position plan.

But it was clear to Carberry that Corbett was clearly behind Allen in his development as a Center. During the joint practices with Vegas McVay saw for himself what exactly Carberry was telling him. Corbett's ability to make the proper pass protection calls weren't nearly as good as Allen's. It's exactly why he was benched as a center in Cleveland.

Corbett is a damn good OG and that is why he was moved back to the vulnerable RG position.

It's clear from what Stafford is saying about Allen that it was the right move. Remember Stafford had an excellent center in front of him in Detroit. These are things I heard way back in OTAs which is why I kept saying Allen was the best choice for the position. McVay simply needed to trust what Carberry was telling him. To his credit, he did when he could see it for himself.

It's also why I'm saying the weak point inside is David Edwards. Hopefully, he will improve his consistency as he gains experience. He still has lapses in his technique which is why he gave up the one and only sack. But I overtook it to a degree as it was while going against Vita Vea who is one of the top DT's in the NFL. I watched him at UW and knew he was one of the best DTs in his draft.

Overall this OL is actually playing up to the expectations of the Ram FO that assembled them. It's why the bungling of their coaching was a huge sore point for me and why I'm saying the hiring of Carberry for the OL is on the same level of trading for Stafford. Carberry has raised the level of play by the OL to that next level. He's getting the most out of his guys. I have never been a fan of Edwards at LG but if Carberry is okay with it I feel more than comfortable with Edwards and will enjoy watching him develop. He simply needs to become more consistent in his play.

It was Havenstein that gave up the sack not Edwards. Edwards is playing lights out. He was one on one vs Vita and others multiple snaps and was excellent. Edwards did give up the pressure on the ball to Jackson where Stafford arm was hit, but that was a long developing play he can’t be expected to block forever.

Allen is still getting beat a few times a game but they are protecting him well with the RB or TE in front of the QB when Allen draws the one on one, which is rare. Carberry rightly so deserves credit for understanding his players and giving the help - but Edwards isn’t one of them.

 

[TexasRam]

You're welcome. I probably shouldn't have said what I said earlier but I really disagreed with your opinion on a certain OL player last year. As I said earlier, we will have to agree to disagree on that player because I really hated his play on 3rd and long.

And although I didn't hate his play on running plays, there were so many times last year that if he made a block 5 yards downfield that Akers and Henderson would have made 10 to 20 yards or even more but only got 5 to 10 yards because of Blythe's missed block.

You are correct on the 3rd and longs. There was rarely time to throw, it’s why we used PA and rollouts at a league high rate. But it’s more than that, you had Whitworth injured 7 games, Edwards 3 games plus playoffs giving us Evans and Higbee hurt most of the year. It’s night and day from this year with everyone healthy and Allen in there. Not to mention Sony and Higbee knocking rushers off their feet.

Goff shared some blame to among other things he lost confidence in the pocket, and wasn’t good under pressure.

As Mcvay said this week - Stafford is very comfortable right now in the pocket due to the great job the Oline is doing in pass pro. But he is also doing lots of things Goff couldn’t so we are all happy.

 

[Tano]

You are correct on the 3rd and longs. There was rarely time to throw, it’s why we used PA and rollouts at a league high rate. But it’s more than that, you had Whitworth injured 7 games, Edwards 3 games plus playoffs giving us Evans and Higbee hurt most of the year. It’s night and day from this year with everyone healthy and Allen in there. Not to mention Sony and Higbee knocking rushers off their feet.

Goff shared some blame to among other things he lost confidence in the pocket, and wasn’t good under pressure.

As Mcvay said this week - Stafford is very comfortable right now in the pocket due to the great job the Oline is doing in pass pro. But he is also doing lots of things Goff couldn’t so we are all happy.

I agree with everything you said. It was fairly clear to me as well that Goff had lost some of his confidence after the Miami game although he did play well the next few games but then he lost all confidence after the second San Francisco game.

He was clearly pressing against Seattle and threw the stupidest pass I have seen him ever make trying to make something happen.

 

[den-the-coach]

Yeah, Allen got a bit of a nasty streak in him, huh?

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